Hi @APV, been struggling to find a 40amp 220v DC 12vdc coil relay (this for 12 335wp panels in two strings). Would you please suggest a part number and manufacturer. Thanks Charles

12 minutes ago, charlez said:

Hi @APV, been struggling to find a 40amp 220v DC 12vdc coil relay (this for 12 335wp panels in two strings). Would you please suggest a part number and manufacturer. Thanks Charles

Hallo @charlez

Why 40A?  A 335W panel has a short circuit current of less than 10A.  With 2 strings, you need less than 20A.  I am using 405W panels (7x2) and used a 30A relay. 

You can get a 30A from Communica  - https://www.communica.co.za/products/jqx30f-2z-dc12v-flange

I also got the DC-DC converter from them

JQX30F-2Z-DC12V FLANGE

Relay • Flange • Form 2C • VCoil= 12V DC • IMax Switching= 30A • RCoil= 96Ω • 6.3mm Terminal

SKU: JQX30F-2Z-DC12V FLANGE

BRAND: Asiaon

 

IN STOCK
R 152.38 _{(inc VAT)}

On 2020/07/16 at 2:13 PM, APV said:

Hallo @charlez

Why 40A?  A 335W panel has a short circuit current of less than 10A.  With 2 strings, you need less than 20A.  I am using 405W panels (7x2) and used a 30A relay. 

You can get a 30A from Communica  - https://www.communica.co.za/products/jqx30f-2z-dc12v-flange

I also got the DC-DC converter from them

JQX30F-2Z-DC12V FLANGE

Relay • Flange • Form 2C • VCoil= 12V DC • IMax Switching= 30A • RCoil= 96Ω • 6.3mm Terminal

SKU: JQX30F-2Z-DC12V FLANGE

BRAND: Asiaon

 

IN STOCK
R 152.38 _{(inc VAT)}

I can't seem to find this relay and converter in my local market and the website you linked may only ship to SA and has the LD03-16B12 sold-out. Can you please link to alternative items on site like aliexpress that ships internationally? 

Hi @Classna I searched on "LD03-16B12" and it seems there are many options internationally to source this component.

10 hours ago, Classna said:

I can't seem to find this relay and converter in my local market and the website you linked may only ship to SA and has the LD03-16B12 sold-out. Can you please link to alternative items on site like aliexpress that ships internationally? 

Hallo @Classna

You can find the relay at Aliexpress at https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32835375697.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.e8d73424MccJGE&algo_pvid=7aedc1e2-263b-4d06-af6e-a4b34421831d&algo_expid=7aedc1e2-263b-4d06-af6e-a4b34421831d-23&btsid=0be3743615958382138547685e0790&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

I cannot find the AC-DC converter at Aliexpress though  As @charlez has mentioned, it is widely available, e.g. https://www.edgeelectronics.com/ac-dc-converters/ld03-16b12/

I am also uploading the schematic again - the capacitor values were displayed incorrectly!

 

11 hours ago, APV said:

I cannot find the AC-DC converter at Aliexpress though  As @charlez has mentioned, it is widely available, e.g. https://www.edgeelectronics.com/ac-dc-converters/ld03-16b12/

Thanks mate. The website edgeelectronics does not ship internationally. I mostly shop on ebay or aliexpress. I tried googling but most of the websites want you to register before you can find out about their shipping info. Is there any alternative component or brand? i don't know much about electronics to figure this out on my own.

Edited July 27, 20205 yr by Classna

9 hours ago, Classna said:

Thanks mate. The website edgeelectronics does not ship internationally. I mostly shop on ebay or aliexpress. I tried googling but most of the websites want you to register before you can find out about their shipping info. Is there any alternative component or brand? i don't know much about electronics to figure this out on my own.

Hallo @Classna I presume you are located in Australia???  Have you experienced the same issues? Error 08 while the inverter is in bypass and it is raining?

I found the AC-DC converter on Alibaba as well: https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/ld03-16b12.html?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=ld03-16b12&isGalleryList=G

Maybe you can order from them.

You can replace it by any AC-DC converter block.  The input must be able to handle up to 440V AC (700V DC) and have an output voltage of 12v and a minimum output current of 250mA .  The output voltage can be higher, but then you will need to use another relay and Zener diode.  So I guess it will be much simpler for you to just stick to the diagram.

25 minutes ago, APV said:

Hallo @Classna I presume you are located in Australia???  Have you experienced the same issues? Error 08 while the inverter is in bypass and it is raining?

I found the AC-DC converter on Alibaba as well: https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/ld03-16b12.html?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=ld03-16b12&isGalleryList=G

Maybe you can order from them.

You can replace it by any AC-DC converter block.  The input must be able to handle up to 440V AC (700V DC) and have an output voltage of 12v and a minimum output current of 250mA .  The output voltage can be higher, but then you will need to use another relay and Zener diode.  So I guess it will be much simpler for you to just stick to the diagram.

@Classna You can replace the LD03-16B12 with one of the following:

LD10-26B12, or LD20-26B12

The distributors for Mornsun in Australia, are:

DLPC Pty Ltd （Australia & New Zealand）
Tel: 61 7 3823 4844
FAX: 61 7 3823 4866
E-mail: [email protected]
Website: www.dlpc.com.au

Fairmont Marketing(Victoria) （AUSTRALIA）
Tel: 03 9878 3077
FAX: 03 9878 4522
E-mail: [email protected]

7 hours ago, APV said:

Hallo @Classna I presume you are located in Australia???  Have you experienced the same issues? Error 08 while the inverter is in bypass and it is raining?

I am located in Pakistan. I don't have the exact same model inverter. It is InfiniSolar VII 5kw running in off-grid mode without batteries. Yes, the error 08 appears only during rain (not sure what you meant by bypass though).

2 minutes ago, Classna said:

I am located in Pakistan. I don't have the exact same model inverter. It is InfiniSolar VII 5kw running in off-grid mode without batteries. Yes, the error 08 appears only during rain (not sure what you meant by bypass though).

Hallo @Classna

Bypass mode is when the inverter does not run off batteries (or solar), but only from the Utility power....

2 minutes ago, APV said:

Hallo @Classna

Bypass mode is when the inverter does not run off batteries (or solar), but only from the Utility power....

gotchya. the last few times that i remember, the inverter was in bypass mode. There isn't much solar power during rain anyway so i guess it only happens in bypass. 

1 minute ago, Classna said:

gotchya. the last few times that i remember, the inverter was in bypass mode. There isn't much solar power during rain anyway so i guess it only happens in bypass. 

Good.  So then the circuit should solve your problem.  Let me know how it goes...

I recorded the event https://streamable.com/4308fu 

Notice the PV breaker was OFF when the error occurred. 

40 minutes ago, Classna said:

I recorded the event https://streamable.com/4308fu 

Notice the PV breaker was OFF when the error occurred. 

Is it an isolator (breaking BOTH wires), or breaker (only breaking 1 wire)?  You need to completely isolate the panels to prevent Error 08.  If you already have an isolator in place, then my circuit is not going to help you, since it only isolates the PV panels. What is very interesting to me, is that your unit keeps on resetting. Mine only did it 3 times and then complete shut down...

Breaker! the right breaker breaks the positive wire from PV and the left breaker breaks AC utility power.

Edited July 28, 20205 yr by Classna

1 minute ago, Classna said:

Breaker! the right breaker breaks the positive wire from PV and the left breaker breaks AC utility power.

I would suggest that you replace the PV breaker by a PV isolator in any case  - it is just good practise.  Breaking only 1 wire to the PV panels does not prevent the AC leakage current from flowing from the inverter via the PV panels to earth. 

The good news is that I believe that my circuit will work for you then.

Ah ok. Will give this a shot. Thanks for all your help.

8 hours ago, Classna said:

It is InfiniSolar VII 5kw running in off-grid mode without batteries

Ah. Infinisolars are rather different beasts; there isn't really a "bypass mode" for these.

But hopefully the same thing (isolating the panels during rain, manually or automatically) will fix it.

On 2020/07/27 at 11:50 AM, APV said:

Hallo @Classna

You can find the relay at Aliexpress at https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32835375697.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.e8d73424MccJGE&algo_pvid=7aedc1e2-263b-4d06-af6e-a4b34421831d&algo_expid=7aedc1e2-263b-4d06-af6e-a4b34421831d-23&btsid=0be3743615958382138547685e0790&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

I cannot find the AC-DC converter at Aliexpress though  As @charlez has mentioned, it is widely available, e.g. https://www.edgeelectronics.com/ac-dc-converters/ld03-16b12/

I am also uploading the schematic again - the capacitor values were displayed incorrectly!

 

Thanks @APV it's in and nothing blew up.

5 hours ago, charlez said:

Thanks @APV it's in and nothing blew up.

Hallo @charlez

Good job!  Have you watched it working around 18h15 and 07h15 (depending on the sun)?  I especially like the morning startup where the bulb first starts glowing and then the relay kicks in, the bulb goes off and the inverter switches to solar...

Your wires exiting the board on the left top side, look a bit thin to me.  Remember that the solar panel current flows through all these wires.  For 20A, you should use at least 2.5mm².  Maybe your wires are that thick and it is just the photo making them look rather thin?  Of course the current will only be high when your panels are delivering maximum power, in other words in bright sunlight and the inverter delivering maximum power...

Hi @APV rained last night and no 08 error for a change. Yes works exactly like you say. Bulb glows for a second or two and the relay kicks in. I used  wire from 30amp extension cord. Next to the 40 amp wire it does look thin but it's only a short run and my 12 panels only producing 4000w absolute max at 220v so should be fine. A BIG thank you to you for figuring this out! I would still like to know what's causing the leak and if other inverters are designed to overcome panel leaks.

Charles

 

3 hours ago, charlez said:

if other inverters are designed to overcome panel leaks.

Well, most other inverters with hazardous PV voltages have insulation monitoring (testing, and alarm if there is a failure). It doesn't overcome panel leaks, but it might have prompted installers to know to use different brands of panels long before yours got installed.

Edit: most modern inverters are "transformerless" grid tie types, which would have the same sort of voltages at the PV terminals. Of course, other than the safety hazard and alarm, they might cope with the leakage just fine (i.e. continue operating).

Edited August 4, 20205 yr by Coulomb

3 hours ago, Coulomb said:

but it might have prompted installers to know to use different brands of panels long before yours got installed.

Don't think I will be using Canadian Solar again. Wonder if I should try get them to replace? They do seem to be the common denominator.

10 hours ago, charlez said:

Don't think I will be using Canadian Solar again. Wonder if I should try get them to replace? They do seem to be the common denominator.

It might be only some models of Canadian Solar panels (and other brands). From the Axpert MKS III manual:

Quote

WARNING:
Because this inverter is non isolated, are accepted: single crystalline, poly crystalline with class
A rated and CIGS modules. To avoid any malfunctions, do not connect any PV modules with possible current
leakage to the inverter. For example, grounded PV modules will cause current leakage to the inverter.

From the above, it seems that mono crystalline panels (mono panels) have less leakage, and are acceptable. Do you know if yours are mono or poly crystalline?

7 hours ago, Coulomb said:

It might be only some models of Canadian Solar panels (and other brands). From the Axpert MKS III manual:

From the above, it seems that mono crystalline panels (mono panels) have less leakage, and are acceptable. Do you know if yours are mono or poly crystalline?

Yes, the large capacity panels (330W+) are all poly crystalline.  Mono would be too expensive...