Is a 33 kwh battery. Compare that to Tesla who start at 60kwh and go up to 100kwh. Serious stuff. They are much bigger vehicles tho. The model 3 Tesla will have a minimum of a 65kwh battery to guarantee 200 mile plus range. Thought the i3 had gone 200 mile but was wrong. The new battery gives it a 100 mile plus range.

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Looks like BMW in SA only guarantees the battery up to 100000km.

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We know that battery life is limited, even Li Ion batteries, if you are going to max the range every day, deep Dod, or if you are parking in the sun during the day and the batteries heat up during summer then you should definitely not expect the batteries to last much beyond the guarantee.

3 hours ago, TinkerBoy said:

You are missing the point. This dude is doning what Plonky wants to do. Its not about the Prius but the concept. 

Exactly. In markets where the Prius is more popular, there are people who buy them in this manner. They end up being incredibly good value for money because they are really nice cars (for the average family-sort-of-guy), and you get them really cheap on those markets. In SA the second-hand market is way too good, which may be a curse... or not. It might mean that the second-hand electric has such a hard time competing that you can pick them up cheaply. It could however mean that the prices are supported, pulled up, because it only has to be a little less than the Diesel (for example) to sell :-)

My point isn't so much to get an electric vehicle. That would be a bonus of course... the point is to swim against the current, trade on people's fears and get a bargain. The concept in other words: I wonder if it will work 1) in our market, 2) on something like a Nissan leaf.

Electric cars are not yet the "in" thing, the new way to roll.

I am hoping, like with 2nd hand Victron equipment on gumtree at times, that there are going  to be bargains from people who bought a electric car, finding it not exactly as advertised / they thought they wanted, selling them on 2nd hand for a song ... ok a song with some cash involved.

There are too many worries about the limited distances the cars can do and if there are charging stations, the time it takes to recharge if you go say on holiday with the car.

 

Saw a video once where the changing station is so that you pull into the garage onto a special driveway, battery bank is unclipped by a robot thing, new one is clipped in and there, you can go. Faster than filling up with fuel. But, the logistics of that scenario on long distances is going to be gynormous during holiday season. The amount of charged banks you would need, and to recharge the swapped out ones.

So I recon in SA, for a,very long while still, you are going to need a petrol / diesel car for longer trips.

But in cities, man, state should help the man on the street to rent / buy electric cars to help solve the cities pollution problems.

For the foreseeable future in SA an electric car will only be able to be a second car.

7 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

So I recon in SA, for a,very long while still, you are going to need a petrol / diesel car for longer trips.

No need to feel bad about that either. You're being much kinder to the environment when you drive a Diesel. Because we make our electricity using coal, and then we lose some of it in transmission and other processes, so that in the end burning a different kind of fossil fuel at the point of consumption could be argued to be better.

Using your PV panels to charge at home/work is obviously a completely different scenario.

2 minutes ago, TinkerBoy said:

Here is the little car that runs around on campus

http://www.gridcars.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=133&Itemid=54

Regenerative breaking capabilities... That's a little scary :-)

Just now, TinkerBoy said:

Why. My ebike has it as well. Work like a charm. When I pull the break leaver just a little bit the motor wil start charging the batteries

Break vs Brake. And its regenerative. Like the Phoenix of myth? That is awesome and scary all at the same time.

(I'm making a joke around a common spelling mistake :-) )

I equate the EV to the development of SD memory cards. Constantly getting bigger and faster for a lower price especially in the early developmental years. Exactly where the electric car is now. Wait and watch the rapid increase in range and decrease in price. It is a tech commodity just like memory cards and will track the same price and performance curves especially as becomes more mainstream.

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2 hours ago, plonkster said:

Using your PV panels to charge at home/work is obviously a completely different scenario.

FWIW I read a post on a Australian (?) forum once where the guy wanted to know if it is viable to install solar panels to charge a Nissan Leaf.

Recall vaguely it was not that easy when they compared the grid cost of power during off-peak times versus the amount of solar panels he would need just for the car ... if the car is at home during the day.

Using all the spare power one has feeding already into the house to offset the costs of charging the car daytime at home helps a lot as you said, like some of you did with the geysers.

To those who want to do a conversion - this one turned out great. Incedently the specs are similar to the i3. Range, speed, capacity 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXsQGWWz3Is

In terms of charge costs. We are lucky in that we have a rotary meter that runs backwards in the day. So what we export in the day will be imported at night, meaning I do not need to abuse my house batteries to get the benefit. At the moment, we produce 12-13KW per day off the 2KW array. We use 9-10KW of that to run the house. So I have 3KW available to charge the car if I want to not export from the grid. That gives me a daily charge capacity of 33km. In reality I will install some extra panels.

4 will give me 7KW per day or 77km

8 will give me 11KW or 120km per day

8 SF panels cost R14400. R14400 buys you 1100L of fuel, that buys me 9900Km driving in the cruiser or 16000km in a eco car (6L per 100km)

At 100km per day I pay off the panels in 5.5 Months. Sure when you add the R1.6 per km for battery wear (assuming it needs replacement after warranty expires) then it becomes less attractive and after you add interest from a R600k loan from the bank it becomes even less attractive, but the feeling you get when you driving at zero cost is priceless

 

I also had a quick charger installed reducing charge time to 3h to 80%

I got a quote from BMW for battery cell replacements. They are +-R16k each. Times 8 cells = R128k, but they credit you for the old cells @ R6500. So effectively R76000.

Brand new battery back with cooling and frame is +-R100k after trade in

The highest milage i3 is in the US @ 80000KM. The owner has charged the car 1200 and lost 5%. So he is looking 1% per 10,000 Miles. I am not worried about the capacity at 10000kms

My demo has 20000kms and showing 18.8kwh usable (100%)

 

R100k for a battery replacement after 100 000 km in the worse case scenario compares favourably to fuel cost per km as your cost is fixed up front and not slowly increasing as the ZAR continously weakens.
The benefit is then hopefully reduced maintenance costs, for now, at some stage the dealers will realise their biggest cash cow is going to dry up with EVs, same with the fuel levy...

19 minutes ago, bmeagle said:

R100k for a battery replacement after 100 000 km in the worse case scenario compares favourably to fuel cost per km as your cost is fixed up front and not slowly increasing as the ZAR continously weakens.
The benefit is then hopefully reduced maintenance costs, for now, at some stage the dealers will realise their biggest cash cow is going to dry up with EVs, same with the fuel levy...

No it won't. Both the manufacturers and dealers will get a way to make money from this. Those batteries cost quite a bit less than what you will pay for them. And, chances are they could go further than 100,000KM, but they will probably rig the circuit in such a way that it would stop dead on 100,001KM, forcing you to buy a new set. And, if you open their precious casing and fiddle with the circuit, you'll half bar electric car warranty will be void so most people won't attempt it. Some 30 years ago, willard and other cheap car batteries used to last 15+ years. Willard was about to go bankrupt until a birdy told them to make the plates thinner so they wear out quicker. Now, batteries are one of the top retail products in the world!

No it won't. Both the manufacturers and dealers will get a way to make money from this. Those batteries cost quite a bit less than what you will pay for them. And, chances are they could go further than 100,000KM, but they will probably rig the circuit in such a way that it would stop dead on 100,001KM, forcing you to buy a new set. And, if you open their precious casing and fiddle with the circuit, you'll half bar electric car warranty will be void so most people won't attempt it. Some 30 years ago, willard and other cheap car batteries used to last 15+ years. Willard was about to go bankrupt until a birdy told them to make the plates thinner so they wear out quicker. Now, batteries are one of the top retail products in the world!

If you buy an out of warranty car, or the battery is out of warranty and you are willing to replace the cells yourself that could be even cheaper, if they aren't currently subsidising the battery cost substantially.

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Just now, bmeagle said:

If you buy an out of warranty car, or the battery is out of warranty and you are willing to replace the cells yourself that could be even cheaper, if they aren't currently subsidising the battery cost substantially.

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sure but most people won't go that route. And, what other parts will the dealer deny you from buying if it's out of warranty? 

Dealer denying to sell you parts, I have never experienced that on all the out of warranty cars I owned and currently own.

Just now, bmeagle said:

Dealer denying to sell you parts, I have never experienced that on all the out of warranty cars I owned and currently own.

sure, not now. But in future it could change. Chances are something like the charge controller and motor controller will only be had from dealers / original parts. Question is, how much will they control it, or how will they stop loosing money. The oil and car industry is in this game to make money, no matter how you look at it. 

We all work to make money, so we're all in the same game, I've found that importing parts from the UK to be cheaper than buying a whole new diesel pump because of local dealers.
The biggest risk is government inventing a new tax on EVs to make up the fuel levy tax.

Just now, bmeagle said:

The biggest risk is government inventing a new tax on EVs to make up the fuel levy tax.

You see, there it is  

Jip, I heard from a very reliable source that local SA manufacturer will let the batteries stay in the car until they are 80%. An idea they have / had was that then the batts can be used in solar application in your house till they are done, at which time you give them back. You never own them.

On parts. For same manufacturer I got a price for diesel injectors for a particular model. At the time they where +-R5k each. Few years later I heard no, the (I think) 7 years waiting time is over you can now get injectors from Midas for less than half the price. Joke is the make of the injectors sold at both manufacturer and Midas, come from same factory. (facepalm) Manufacturer 0 : Midas 1.

My point, once the electric cars are the norm, there will be parts available available from like of Midas with a few DIY business popping up all over, same as business who chip cars, replace turbo's etc, will jump on that bandwagon is what I see coming.

BUT the tax ... aikona ... I did not see that one coming.

Fuel levy pays for what? Road Accident Fund ... petrol attendants ... I do not think electric cars will be pushed in SA anytime soon. The ripple effect could become enormous.

No wonder Electric cars are so hard fought against by the oil lobbyists. They and governments will lose truck loads of revenue similar as Eskom not wanting millions of grid tie houses all over.

Sipho and Matwetwe will not be driving electric cars or in electric taxis soon.

Starve the beast bit by bit.

17 minutes ago, bmeagle said:

Starve the beast bit by bit.

FWIW. I always work the opposite side so that we have more chances to share ideas, get new ideas ... so on starving the beast. 

The beast will not allow itself to starve. In SA Z'inc has too many people who don't even own a car, have a real house and the rest are too busy trying to make ends meet to give anything a 2nd though so it will end up that but a few are doing something which by no means will make a dent to the beast.

If however the masses can be made to move, now that will hurt ... nope, the beast is not going to starve, the people are. 

That middle class and up is keeping it alive not the masses.