KLEVA

Episode 1c - How not to incorrectly connect batteries so they melt lugs, destroy your favourite t-shirt and give you burns on your hands and chest... Episode 1d - How not to have your metal battery cabinet short out your battery cable connectors Episode 1e - Positive is the Plus sign!

Chris gets Episode 7 - Do you realise you will have to write it? I am serious about setting up a dummies guide, on this forum or on one of my websites, think we need one... Dummies for Solar Installations - Not quite for Dummies!

Korn, I own neither of those, but it might be helpful if you can provide a bad/good wiring situation. You are just saying "don't", but not explaining how it was used/connected... None of us want to make a similar mistake, so can you give us more technical information? PS: Sorry for your loss/damage.

Mumble, Mumble - Think I might have to leave this forum as I am driving the equivalent of a 1984 Ford Escort compared to all your Porches and Ferraris Nice work Janma - Glad to see you have done your homework so far, and welcome to the forum. PS: I have absolutely no idea what an SSR is that JDP mentioned above, but we will learn, that is the point of the forum... Enjoy...

Have 2 Electric Fences at house, and although they post 38W as their usage (on the slip of paper that gives their specs), they can jump (very temporary) to over 200W for a few seconds or in error/fault. They are normally intelligent enough to correct themselves, but don't let your power input be unable to deliver that 200W when needed... That aside, this is a single application and even if it sits with a 40W continuous load, it is still small. As I advocate in many posts - Batteries are key (you can add/subtract other stuff later, not so with batteries), however 105Ah for your Energizer seems like enough (if you can afford a 200Ah battery, then all the better, and will last even longer and serve you probably 4x as many cycles), and more importantly can deliver the power for a 2-3 day period if there is no other power input, if the draw remains that low. (but as mentioned below, you must be able to charge it) The maths on the panel feels wrong though, even with a low power draw, a battery bank needs between .3A and 4A just to remain at float... I am not sure that that panel is right (and you didn't mention a charger/invertor)... If you not feeding this with something else, then I think there is something wrong with the panels (I don't think they can charge a 105Ah battery in a day of 8 hours sunshine - but I haven't done the math yet), and surely you need more than one day of operation, what if yesterday was cloudy/rainy? Another small note: Somewhere you are going to have an intelligent enough charger to be able to load the battery up to maybe 58 volts every so often and properly float (at about 54V), and then be able to cut everything off below +-42V... This wasn't in your discussion, but you can't do any of the above without a intelligent charger...

Neb - Your install is stunning, and an envy of many of us... I can dream of the kit you already have. Guys, this is why we need a lessons learned section to help people like Neb and me get into the game properly... PS: Neb, I am also like you, learning a lot from my newish kit installed (only 4 months in, and already learned very expensive lessons, even after 8 months of learning - I either learn slow, or the subject matter is complicated...). Everyone who has commented is quite right on the batteries, forget for a moment your investment on the rest of the kit... batteries, batteries, batteries... These are the heart of your system and don't let anyone tell you otherwise, you buy the best and highest quality you can afford on day 1 of your planning. You can underspec many things else, but I have learned that you treat batteries almost like pets, they are a expensive and dedicated commitment. Can change most other parts of your installation easily, adding panels, adding invertors, adding monitors, but batteries are a different animal... After 2/3 months, you can't just add batteries to your system without completely replacing your existing battery bank (from scratch). You also have to understand a bit about battery characteristics, 100Ah might seem like you can get 100Ah from the battery, and yes you can, if you only want it to last till next week! Use some basic calcs (yes, maths again)... As mentioned by a few of the posts on this forum, a 20% discharge rate is not only going to keep you batteries going probably past their initial lifespan, but will also give you the maximum overall monetary return. (If I get a chance tonight, I will try post the maths later)

He he, at that stage it was "new" and "good" and ... add all the selling points and hippy statements... No-one ever told us at that stage that vegetable oil got thick - Like other techs, lesson learned! TTT - ooooh, on that point you are right, but at least I was told about that - Something to do with the ingredients that start cleaning out the rest of your fuel system (maybe the Lye?), but after first 500km replaced the filter (could even see all the garbage/cr@p). We did a full service/cor/etc when we sold the car, and that filter was like factory new... The junk either was missing the filter, or there was no junk? Wish I could tell you how it went after reverting back to Diesel with the new owner, but he decided the donkey should hit 160km downhill, and completely ruined the engine/turbo/radiator within 1 week of ownership... Tried to get his money back, but my tracker was still installed which proved he screwed the vehicle... But that's another topic.

He he - was just thinking a lessons learned section might be in order Especially for those that think they can "Do it cheap" To start with:- Episode 1 (Not really, but my smack in the face, should wake up others):Buying 1 x Axpert, 3 Panels and 4 x 100 Ah batteries is only 50% of your cost and it isn't going to replace your dependency on Grid power! Huge first lesson! Do some Maths! Episode 1a: Research, spending time to understand the tech/batteries/invertors and all the other seemingly complicated topics. Episode 2: Do you need Solar replacement or just a emergency backup? Episode 3: Optimising your home for Solar - LED Lights, Solar Geyser, Gas options, etc Episode 4: Installing yourself trying to save cost is going to cost you more in the long run unless you really know what you doing! Episode 5: Batteries, Batteries, Batteries - A cheap purchase is usually a bad purchase! Can replace/add panels, but batteries are like buying a pet - its a commitment! Episode 6: Safety/Grounding - High DC Power is deadly (makes big sparks/scary ). connections specific to your install Episode 7: Mounting panels - Seriously, it is incredibly difficult to get installers to even quote (what's up with that?), so how can you correctly mount the panels yourself (on the cheap (like me) or properly. Add more episodes people...

Energy, I think it blew up his farm/internet - he hasn't responded yet

About 7 years ago I had a hungry Nissan Sani 2.7 turbo diesel with 2 fuel tanks, and this thing was a killer on the pocket, so biodiesel was a great alternative fuel and saved a fortune on fillups (there was a place here in Pinetown that supplied)... All went well for a long time, and in the donkey, any possible power loss/gain went unnoticed... Then we went for a conference in the Berg, in the middle of Winter. The Sani stood for 2 days outside in the cold (negative) temperatures... Lo and Behold... Sani wont run... The biodiesel had frozen! Took us 8 hours to get from the Drakensberg back to Durban, pumping and coaxing frozen biodeisel into the engine Still used biodeisel till the Sani was sold, unless we went anywhere cold, then we made sure we took another car or filled up with normal diesel. PS: I know this is just because of the way the bio was made, there is much better stuff out there that doesn't freeze, but not in Pinetown at the time.

I see more and more info about software for Invertors/Devices, I know AICC has done awesome work, but there isn't a place where someone can look directly for software to get info from all these devices. (Although AICC has a "side section" on IoT, but not sure if it is the right place). I was thinking that there should be a "moderated" section that could showcase/advise on all software that people have written and are prepared to sell/give and even general commercial, so that people have a choice. Even a single pinned post that keeps a list of software available? A few weeks ago I was really hunting for an alternative to WatchPower, and this forum pointed me in a direction for software, and in many cases I found that there was something else to suit my requirements better, or ended up empty... Hence I eventually wrote my own. But it would also give the various people a common place to talk software specific. I think either creating a specific software section of the Alternative Energy section, or expanding the IoT section would be helpful. I have come across about 8 different options for communicating with the various products, and here we can discuss communication codes, networking, web, databases, advantages vs disadvantages of various commercial products, and the same with the free & open source stuff out there. I have so much info I would like to openly share about how to communicate to devices via USB (since this seems to have been a challenge on the forum), and this really doesn't have another place. I don't think software discussions should be in Invertors/Batteries/etc, it is a separate topic.

FeO Batteries - I think I might have been dreaming of a perfect world, when I said that! Sheesh, who can afford R25k per 2V ex Import Cost... And thats just for 50Ah! Money no object, even a billionare would balk at that price!

You can sell those extra 6 panels to me - Is R1000 per panel a fair price - Just kidding. I started reading this thread and have felt envious from the start... That much power, I could probably supply my whole street/suburb... On the serious side though: When you going this large, then do it right to start with, mistakes get expensive, and more so at this size. At this size, you either are someone who want's to walk away and let it do it's job, or you have an avid interest in getting your monies worth, and getting your money back, I hope it is the latter, because you would make a valuable contribution to the forum with your results. It is a bit of a learning curve, which very few "face-to-face" people can help you with, you are going to have to do a bit of homework on many things (it is rewarding in the end) Batteries - Seriously, the hardest and most expensive lesson I learned, if you intend on staying on the better side of your supply, your batteries have to be tough and capable. As mentioned above, you can't abuse them, good batteries treated well can exceed even their spec, and more importantly get you better value. As a rough example (battery dependent) - A 80% DoD vs 50% Dod can increase the Battery lifespan/cycles fourfold, nearly eightfold if you go to 30% vs 70%. IMHO, batteries are almost the key to your whole system and it's economy, and they must be looked after correctly. Every type of battery has different requirements, and if you have the dosh, then go for FeO with the right equipment (yeah, that is probably out of everyones price bracket, but they do last 85 +years, and have a DoD of nearly 100%). Realistically, get the best you can afford, but make sure your charger/invertor can support them correctly. Aside: LiFePo batteries are probably reasonable realistic option, but that is according to finances. Invertors/Chargers (Separate or Combined) - Despite what is touted by the MPPT Invertor (even me) crowd (sorry JDP and Others), at this size the better move is to do as TTT says and balance everything properly and use high-end parts to do the job intended... But then it HAS to be managed (the system cannot just be left alone, it has to be maintained and monitored). Your best value for money will come from that solution, but how much is your time worth? You have spent a fortune (well at least by most of our standards) on this kit - Even if you think you have the right installer, GET A SECOND OPINION, or even a third. Seriously, what is a few hours of labour/consultancy cost vs the value of this investment if it goes wrong? Make sure it is done right - Even knowledgeable people have messed up a Solar install at least once (and I count myself as at least one of those!). Good Luck, and we would love to see pics of the final install. Regards

TTT - Nice, but I still see that comment as an extension to Priority 1 - Definitely not last, that is maybe between 1 & 2 if we need another step... Chris & JDP - You right, but even as a qualified electrician, you have no idea how I screwed up my own install. As JDP said, many have no idea (like I didn't) of how to actually go about even doing the work, never mind the CoC. I believe there is a completely separate section and qualification for Solar installations now that is an extension of the SANS 10142 (I don't do electrical as my daily work, so haven't kept up with the code). Despite the cost, if I had a second choice, I would've gotten a qualified installer to do the job. Even when I thought I knew what was involved, there are some shocking (pun intended) learning curves. I had to learn them here on this forum (before I signed up, because I was a bit embarrassed to relate my mistakes... was a ghost watcher for at least 3 weeks until I realised that I wasn't the only one learning)

As Plonkster said - If money was no object... For those of us that live in the real world, I am probably (from what I have seen so far on the various discussions) on the lower end of real available money (spent 4 of last 5 years with ZERO income). I am not broke, but buying even a single solar panel, kills the family budget for 3-4 months... Your system not only has to be balanced as to your expectations, but also to affordability and long term benefits. I personally am still learning about things I could/should have done on my installation, but I did it on the "China" side of cheap to start, and it was without knowing a damn thing about exactly what I was getting into... I should write a "Dummies Guide" with the lessons learned, and even now I know there are major problems with my own, self installed, installation - And I qualified as an electrician! Solar is a different ballgame, so take every bit of advice, even contradictory, and use it to build up your own experience. Guarantee that in two/three months after your installation you will be more knowledgeable than many solar salespeople out there, and will know exactly how to put your system together perfectly (budget allowing). So, start off somewhere, decide whether you are almost dedicated to going "Solar" like many of us, or whether you want to leave it to do it's stuff. If you can't take the time to maintain your batteries, setting, etc, then go with a brilliant installer and leave their settings alone (feel free to discuss those settings with us first) - ie: let the MPPT control everything and replace the batteries every 2+ years (cos that what even a good installation can do without attention). Or choose the high end stuff, and keep your eyes on it. As part of my Dummies Guide (See, I should write a book): Priority 1 - NEVER skimp on the Invertor/Charger, it has to cope with your max load, and anything else you want to throw at it. It is pointless getting even a on-grid system that can't cope when everything is on (You would be better off staying with Municipal/Eskom Power) Priority 2 - Batteries - There are a million choices, so at this point I am just going to advise to not go for standard Lead Acid (like a car), no matter how tempting the price. Batteries really define your budget, get the best value for money you can here. It is easy to add/change panels, but a battery commitment is for at least 3 years, preferably 10 years. After the first few months you CANT just add to you battery bank, it will have to be completely replaced, from scratch! (I have already learned that lesson hard and in my pocket) Priority 3 - Panels - This may seem silly putting the actual energy part near the end, but with a bit of logic, it is far simpler to add PV panels to your system than it is to add batteries. Panels & the way you connect them, have to be within range of what the invertor wants/needs/can use... I recently just saw both extremes from friends who thought they would follow my "free power" path, and stuff was connected horribly (One Axpert 5kVA with a string of 6 panels in Series - Voltage completely exceeding specs, so the Invertor just shut it down, Another with the entire reverse, everything in parallel, so never enough voltage to do anything) - PS: For most people doing their own installations is not only DANGEROUS, but also illegal... I have stories, and this isn't even my job! Apologies for the essay Richwost, just hope you keep passing on the info this way so that guys even more experienced than me can comment.

Hi Viper, I know this is a bit late, not sure if still interested... What I did was: 1 x 20W panel (cheap enough, and a 10W is probably sufficient), then 4 x 120mm Computer fans cable tied together. I wired those up with 2 old partly faulty 9Ah batteries removed from gate controller (just to act as a bit of a capacitor/overnight power)... No charge controller, nada else, just wired it together direct like Does the job nicely. (In my roof to keep my office cool, so no aircon, put a 20W panel direct onto a small 12V radiator fan, when it's hot/sun, it runs, when its night cooler, it doesn't - simple solutions sometimes work better) I get 20W 12V panels at about R300, so nice to play with as a hobby test, and if you break it it doesn't break you!

Waiting for the weekend to replace the serial, but in the meantime I dabbled with my own software and have the USB working (a bit too late to pass on to JDP, since AICC seems nearly ready after all the hard work that JDP & Manie have been doing). So as an aside/slight topic change - As soon as the KLEVA™ Solar Monitor is tested properly, it will be made freely available - NB: It is not to replace the awesome and much better tools out there, it is just 1 part of a custom monitoring system: It just captures data from any Com Port/USB to a Database. There will be a guideline to write your own invertor DLL to match (it just needs to know some defaults/settings/commands), and can send that to MySQL/MSSQL/MSAccess/ODBC. Can run on any Windows from Vista, 2000 onwards, can be loaded as a service onto a server. NB: To use this tool you will still have to write a front-end to make the "pretty" pictures/displays, as I said this is not a replacement for the other systems out there, but they will be free to use it as an interface if they wish, in fact almost ALL credit for the knowledge and effort comes from the users of this and the Australia form. PS: KLEVA™ - The Trademark brand is only there because KLEVA is a registered trademark and has to be placed on all software I develop, there will be no cost/fees for the monitor software or any related. I wanted a tool to do something that wasn't out there - Use any flavour of Windows (although my old Windows NT machine is not possible), log directly to a database, and have a Device DLL that can be changed. Expected ver 0.2 (beta) availability - 2/3 weeks As a teaser (or confuser), feel free to take a look at the current config (semi-readme) file attached (converted to text here for readablility) KLEVASolarMonitor.conf.txt

Thanks guys, looks like Camel came through - Appreciate all the advice/help.

Some older installations (prior to SANS 10142) allowed Blue for Neutral in Single Phase installations, hence the amendments. Also, older installations can still have a traditional "Earth Leakage" (with an Earth detection) rather than a "Leak Current" detection. We still refer to both as Earth Leakage. While "Earth Leakage" systems are still allowed and will pass most CoC if existing (electrician dependent), it is HIGHLY recommended that it be replaced. Traditional "Earth Leakage" systems can be slower to respond to faults. Any new/replacement HAS to be with "Current Leakage" (you can't even buy the older type anymore). Source: My memory from SANS 10142 Course & Exams in 2014, where these exact questions were asked.

Thanks, so either way I'll have to get something, might as well get the better one... Now to find cheapest place to get in KZN. Currently Sustainable is R > R3800 incl VAT (excl Delivery), ReVolt is R3200 but don't specify VAT or Delivery...

Sorry JDP, missed your post about the NUC. Which spec is it? My impression is that they are still too pricey, even the Pi is expensive in SA, but managed to get my hands on 4 new Pi 2's with covers/psu/memory for R400/ea so jumped at that. (funny story, lighties PC crashed, so I tossed a Pi at him and told him to learn linux , can't afford new PC after recession and Solar kit purchase, plus his broken PC saves me another 60W power ) . Have modded a old Asus EEE pc with Atom processor to Run Win 7 (only because I wanted to run AICC and leave this permanently next to the Axpert, but other plans have since been made, so now it's back to being my Netflix/Hulu/VPN machine on the TV) Getting back on topic: How far out is the information given by the Axpert vs the information given with an added 702? My budget is extremely tight, so for just monitoring and making sure I don't damage stuff, can I stick to the Axpert info, or should I add kit?

4 x PC/Servers (only 1 LED screen on), 2 x Pi, 1 x Managed Switch, 2 x Wireless AP, 2 x DSL Routers, CCTV PVR & Cameras, DSTV, Asus EEE PC, 1 x Acer Laptop, 1 x Trickle Charger for Bike Battery, Fridge & Geyser + a few cell chargers + gate charger & intercom + other small things I have probably forgotten (PBX turned off today, thanks to a Telkom fault) and getting < 600W load listed from Axpert. (In Utility mode thanks to Rain).. Does that sound right/too low/too high? <Edit> Sorry the reason I am asking is whether I need to take the expensive plunge on a 702, it's 1/2 monthly income at the moment.

500mb ext hard drive (no ext power), using a 2A power supply on Pi, so calc is rough. 1A supply can't power pi & ext drive, pi kept resetting and had to max the usb currents in config. So my guestimate is about 5-10W... still, huge saving for a machine that has all but replaced a 400W+++ monolith... 13 Websites with MySql & Wordpress, and space/resources left over... Busy configuring another to replace the 200W PABX... love these things...

Speaking of Intel Servers (while we slightly off topic) First things to go once switching to Solar - 2 large G3 blade servers drawing 400W each at idle with those huge fans and power supplies, One replaced with a 5W Pi, the other with an i3 Server (uses about 40W at idle, was impressed).

Yup, Sorry Coulomb, was just a typo, should have been 0x28 wherever 0x40 was shown - Have corrected above.