Jump to content

SunSynk 8k + Hubble AM2 + 16x400W PV


system32

Recommended Posts

Just got my install finished on Fri 12th Nov 2021 - can't wait for load shedding... 🙂

  • SunSynk 8kW inverter
  • 4 x Hubble AM2 5.5kWh ~20kWh
  • 16x400W Seraphim 6.4kWp in 2 strings of 8
  • JHB South, North facing, roof slope is ~23°
  • Evacuated Tube Thermosiphon Solar Geyser
  • Solar-Assistant RPI3b


image.png.355fb79caf6fdd52312dc0b7f94fc97b.png

image.png.34110f633a39cc4b7990f64b52a3162b.png

I have the RIOT and the "Older" SolarMan WiFi

RIOT does not seem to work with the SunSynk 8kW inverter at this stage 😞

Since I had a RP3b lying around I've also tried Solar-Assistant.
So far Solar-Assistant is my preferred tool as it works locally and cloud with a rich data and access to mqtt.

Edited by system32
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here are some graphs from the last 3 days:
image.thumb.png.0d15015dff3bf77720db86350ebc5689.png

 

EDIT:
Example showing blending of inputs to support UPS load

image.thumb.png.c7035967345961bc1d0965afc8bd0751.png

 

10kW UPS Load ~ 4.9kW from Solar PV + 3.5kW from battery + 2.0kW from Grid
The numbers don't add up exactly as there is some lag, but close enough.
The inverter is inverting 8.4kW
 

Edited by system32
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, system32 said:

Just got my install finished on Fri 12th - can't wait for load shedding... 🙂
SunSynk 8k inveter
4 x Hubble AM2 5.5kWh
16 x 400W PV - north facing
image.png.6a2ad8fcd5a73e470df80443e6e6f371.png

 

I have the RIOT and the "Older" SolarMan WiFi

RIOT does not seem to work with the SunSynk 8kW inverter at this stage 😞

Since I had a RP3b lying around I've also tried Solar-Assistant.
So far Solar-Assistant is my preferred tool as it works locally and cloud with a rich data and access to mqtt.

I've encountered an issue with the Hubble which I've reported - waiting for feedback.
After 6 days, RIOT is reporting 94% pack health - does not sound good.
image.png.0c08715424dd73c303a2368d2dec2fd4.png

Using Solar-Assistant I see that the reported capacity has also dropped:

image.png.25799c83b3b06786e94086786deace71.png

Does anyone have the same issues?

Beautiful install.

I haven't heard about similar issues, but were the batteries balanced prior to installation? Have you contacted your installer / Hubble support?

AFAIK the Hubbles need to be at 100% for a while to get the balancing right, so it may get better, but all the same, it would not hurt to report it

Edited by YellowTapemeasure
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, YellowTapemeasure said:

Beautiful install.

I haven't heard about similar issues, but were the batteries balanced prior to installation? Have you contacted your installer / Hubble support?

AFAIK the Hubbles need to be at 100% for a while to get the balancing right, so it may get better, but all the same, it would not hurt to report it

Thank you for your feedback - faster than Hubble support 🙂

I've logged a call with Hubble Support.
They said they know what the problem is and will let me know...... still waiting.

I don't think the 4 batteries were manually balanced as they were factory new.
The batteries BMS are interconnected via the "battery link" ports and battery #1 is connected to the inverter.
What's the procedure to balance the 4 batteries?
Don't they balance automatically since they all interconnected and the BMS's can do that?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, 87 Dream said:

@system32this is an awesome system you have...No grid supply there at all. In other words off grid. 

But I will say this as a word of caution to many that see this as a completely off grid success: You need a backup source of power because 4 days of low light can get things not so good. 

In your case here you can use the grid as a backup. Many ppl say you should get a Gene or something. The grid is irregular but who said we cant use it as a backup power source. It's the gun in the safe, that might not have bullets at times of the day according to the schedule. But it's a gun no doubt.

Off- grid usually involves 4 times your daily usage to get through a 24hr period. That's a lot of $$$. But hey you have the grid available so use Eskom as your crappy backup. 

Congratulations on this system 🍺🍺👍

87

Apologies, I should have stated and the picture is not clear, but there is a grid supply.

If you look in the right hand you can see the CoJ pre-paid keypad attached to the RED plug - before the inverter - so I can still buy electricity.
This key-pad uses "comms/ethernet over power" to communicate with the meter.

The main DB board is in the house, and the SunSynk + Batteries in the garage.
The installer ran AC cables from the main breaker in the main DB to the garage DB and then back again to feed the house.

I'm on CoJ pre-paid and they act as backup.
I have no intention of going "off-grid".

By 11:30 am my batteries are fully charged and have to dump most of the afternoon PV electricity.
I'm considering feeding the excess back to CoJ, but the paperwork requirements, change to ToU tariff and new meter seem like a bunch of trouble.
The SynSynk is set to consume 50W from the Grid to prevent issues on the pre-paid meter.

Edited by system32
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, 87 Dream said:

I knew there was a grid supply. I was talking in terms of your installation not making use of the grid as shortfall by the Solar Assistant graph you posted. 

Pity the Hubble's aren't balanced. Quick question: Do have isolators breakers between the batteries?

87

In the graph, the grid power is so low it's hardly visible.
The batteries are connected in parallel with the supplied cables - no idolators between batteries.
Each battery does have an On/Off switch.
Between the bank and the inverter there is a "KETO 1 Battery Disconnector with 2x200A Fuses"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, system32 said:

Thank you for your feedback - faster than Hubble support 🙂

I've logged a call with Hubble Support.
They said they know what the problem is and will let me know...... still waiting.

I don't think the 4 batteries were manually balanced as they were factory new.
The batteries BMS are interconnected via the "battery link" ports and battery #1 is connected to the inverter.
What's the procedure to balance the 4 batteries?
Don't they balance automatically since they all interconnected and the BMS's can do that?

Thanks in advance for any help.

You are correct, as per the Hubble documentation, the batteries need to be at 100% for a while in order to do their balancing, but I am not sure about between one another, and you have 4. Best to wait for their response, and please give us feedback, good that you have logged it with them.

You have a similar setup to my own prepaid electricity meter. Being on the grid side is best, otherwise comms is potluck. Mine is a Landis Gyr and after a few days I was feeling adventurous and turned off the incoming "bleed", it never tripped and I never turned it back on again for over 15 months now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, YellowTapemeasure said:

You are correct, as per the Hubble documentation, the batteries need to be at 100% for a while in order to do their balancing, but I am not sure about between one another, and you have 4. Best to wait for their response, and please give us feedback, good that you have logged it with them.

You have a similar setup to my own prepaid electricity meter. Being on the grid side is best, otherwise comms is potluck. Mine is a Landis Gyr and after a few days I was feeling adventurous and turned off the incoming "bleed", it never tripped and I never turned it back on again for over 15 months now.

With my one Hubble battery, after the power is restored (post loadshedding) the battery charges to 100% and it stays at 100% for about an hour - not longer than that. Then it drops to 99% and it stays there until power is lost again. I don't have panels yet. But it looks like, it doesn't need to be at 100% for prolonged periods of time. There is definitely something not right in his system. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2021/11/18 at 4:54 PM, YellowTapemeasure said:

You are correct, as per the Hubble documentation, the batteries need to be at 100% for a while in order to do their balancing, but I am not sure about between one another, and you have 4. Best to wait for their response, and please give us feedback, good that you have logged it with them.

You have a similar setup to my own prepaid electricity meter. Being on the grid side is best, otherwise comms is potluck. Mine is a Landis Gyr and after a few days I was feeling adventurous and turned off the incoming "bleed", it never tripped and I never turned it back on again for over 15 months now.

Thanks for the advice wrt balancing - will call Hubble tomorrow to follow up.

Also thanks for the tip on the Landis Gyr - seem I have similar keypad - communicates over power line to the meter.
image.png.6b067dbe7f55319c52ad7c2f7298b8ed.png

Don't feel like paying CoJ for the 50Wh * 24 * 30 * R2.20 = ~R80/pm which I can supply myself.
EDIT: been using 20W Grid trickle for that last 6 months all good, might try 0W.

Edited by system32
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • 10 months later...

An update after a year:

image.png.41d824bbdbda8d8ca1b440baa2881c41.png

image.png.a28633a22e6048551d7a02479279847c.png

Bill dropped from ~R1835 to ~R335 per month.
Best part is NO MORE LOAD SHEDDING
2nd best is I gave the finger to Eskom - bring on the 32% increase, bring on stage 5 - does not affect me.
Best investment ever.

Issues with Hubble AM2 were resolved with a firmware update.

Overall very happy.
If I was doing it again, I would look at an east/west and more panels with the idea to grid feed and make some money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From 21 Nov 2021 to 21 Nov 2022:

  • 285 outages (load shedding + power fails + me messing around)
  • 426 hours of darkness = 17 days and 18 hours of darkness for my neighbors but none for me

The real number of outages (285) is probably closer to 200, as any period that goes past midnight counts as an additional outage.

Longest Outages:

  • 19h01m59s - 15th Oct 2022 -  lightning took out a phase in the suburb - not affected
  • 9h23m59s - 30th Oct 2022 - substation outage - not affected
  • 7h50m - 2 Nov 2022 - substation outage - 3h10m down

We were down once during the whole year for 3h10m.
From 2 Nov 16:50 to 03 Nov 00:40 (7h50m outage) which we were out for the last 3h10m.
Due to rain, the battery was at 20% SoC when the outage occurred at 16h50.
At 21h30 the battery shutdown.

3h10m in a year = EXCELLENT UP TIME 🙂
Much better EAF than Eskom.

Edited by system32
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the feedback.
The below is from a post I did in a another, but felt I would like to add it to this thread.

Been considering grid feeding, here are my findings:

CityPower / CoJ should get with the renewable program and encourage cheap renewable PV + Storage by:

1) Publishing guidelines, rules, application forms, costs for TOU meters, tariffs for grid-feed
2) Streamline the process
3) Use plain-speak suitable for residents and lay people:
see https://www.joburg.org.za/Documents/2020 Notices/Bylaw Notices/Proposed Draft Electricty By Laws.pdf
for an example of difficult to read legal speak (and the document refers to previous 2000 rules with no links)

Q1. What is the feed-in rate for CityPower?
Not listed in https://www.citypower.co.za/customers/Pages/Tariff-Info.aspx

Q2. Is it still "net-metering" or can I sell all my excess to CityPower.

According to https://www.sseg.org.za/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/City-Power-Experience-SSEG.pdf
https://www.joburg.org.za/documents_/Documents/2022-23 Final Tariffs/ITEM 3C Consolidated2022-23FinalTariffsForApproval-19May 2022.pdf

A1. ❖ Domestic Embedded Generator
✓ Customer should be on post-paid residential with Time of Use (ToU) tariff
Residential Embedded Generator [Feed in rate] 70.70c/kWh flat rate [2022/23 rates]
TOU single phase <=80A Service/Admin + Capacity charge: R886.98 (inc VAT) [2022/23 rates]

I could not find 2022/23 TOU domestic rates, so these are from 2021/22 with a 14.49% increase:
The domestic TOU rates are telescopic, this is just up to 500kWh per month:

  • Peak Summer 226.54c/kWh, Winter 521.19c/kWh
  • Standard Summer 190.98c/kWh, Winter 227.84c/kWh
  • Off-Peak Summer 140.98c/kWh, Winter 150.66c/kWh [ when you charge your Tesla ]

A2. Net Billing against consumption charges still applies

So they pay you 70.7c/kWh with a net metering limit, but will charge you up to 521.19c/kWh.
I could configure my system to ensure I only don't use grid during peak and only use battery.

I use ~180kWh from CoJ.
Using only Standard off Off-Peak, I would only be billed TOU R344 (summer) or R410 (winter) per month.
Due to net-metering I could make a maximum of R344 (summer) or R410 (winter) per month.
Does not sound like a good home business plan considering I would have to pay for a new meter and pay R886.98/pm in fees.

CoJ should/must remove the net-metering to make it viable.
CoJ can come and beg me when they remove the net-metering so I can give CoJ all the excess kWh.
TIP: Pay me more to grid-feed during peak - I'll discharge my battery during peak to grid feed.
Pay me like you pay Eskom.

I can then offset grid-feed revenue against:

  • Electricity consumption kWh
  • Electricity Service/Admin Fee + Capacity charge
  • Water consumption KL
  • Sewer Fee
  • PIKITUP
  • Rates & taxes

And if I exceed the total due, pay me cash.
It's a win-win situation - my kWh are cleaner than Eskom's

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SunSynk 8k Settings

Version

image.png.562d305c46efbe74656d57345b80369d.png

Battery-Setup

image.thumb.png.f239b91c83605748f53e819abe480313.png

  • Activate is used to recover a "dead" battery
  • 4 x 105Ah = 420Ah * 48V ~ 20kWh
  • 150A * 48V ~ 7.2kW limit charge/discharge battery
  • 50A * 48V ~ 2.4kW limit from grid - must be less than 25% of your "service connection circuit breaker"
  • The 53.6V float are for Hubble AM2 (from their web site)
  • Signal Island mode to activate N/E bond relay
  • BMS_Err_Stop prevents the inverter working if there is an error.
  • 10% SoC is where the inverter will start working again after a shutdown



System Mode Setup

image.png.a27e056d74ed4e19dc769fa276b0d04f.png

  • Maintain a minimum of 20%/35% SoC during the time periods.
  • If there is grid (ticked) use grid to get to 20%.
  • Don't overlap the times and keep them in order and no gaps.
  • If there is no grid, inverter can go down to the Shutdown SoC%
  • If there is grid, stop using battery at 20%
  • 20W trickle feed to prevent pre-paid meter trip - considering 0W

Grid is on & SoC< 20%: use Solar & Grid to get to battery to 20% SoC
Grid is on, SoC> 20%: use Solar, then battery to power UPS, excess PV goes to battery
Grid is on, SoC> 20%, UPS load > 7.2kW: use Solar, then battery, then grid to power UPS
Grid is off, use Solar, then battery to power UPS, at ~5% SoC shutdown.
At Night, use battery until 20%, then switch to grid.

System Flow Chart

image.png.06658d5123aa7a3309e62d6c7680f307.png

Note: the whole house is connected on the "UPS" side

Useful video on setup of Deye
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miOrLBp4t0Q

 

Edited by system32
Link to comment
Share on other sites

LiBMS

image.thumb.png.817d77d7755bb8d2865deb2b34a455cd.png

Check that LiBMS is working.
BMS controls the charge/discharge based on SoC.
Depending on SoC, the BMS allows different charge & discharge rates.
The inverter will only allow a max of 150A (set above).
35% -> 400A/400A * 48V charge/discharge,
<10% -> 400A/200A and 400A/0A
>95% -> 0A/400A

CT COIL:
image.thumb.png.a0a82644852b299dd338a107f88a7c8b.png

Edited by system32
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2022/11/21 at 11:52 AM, system32 said:

An update after a year:

image.png.41d824bbdbda8d8ca1b440baa2881c41.png

image.png.a28633a22e6048551d7a02479279847c.png

Bill dropped from ~R1835 to ~R335 per month.
Best part is NO MORE LOAD SHEDDING
2nd best is I gave the finger to Eskom - bring on the 32% increase, bring on stage 5 - does not affect me.
Best investment ever.

Issues with Hubble AM2 were resolved with a firmware update.

Overall very happy.
If I was doing it again, I would look at an east/west and more panels with the idea to grid feed and make some money.

I'm running Solar Assistant as well and I'm quite keen to know how you are pulling stats that are displayed like the above?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2023/01/01 at 7:32 PM, Bl4d3 said:

I'm running Solar Assistant as well and I'm quite keen to know how you are pulling stats that are displayed like the above?

My setup is as follows:

image.thumb.png.cb1eba264c9461edc528e19b6b0ce34e.png

Note the directions of the arrows.

I enabled MQTT in Solar-Assistant, and then persist the data to PostgreSQL using a custom PAHO python script.
I subsequently discovered the Telegraf can do the persisting of MQTT data to any database.
For performance reasons, I have a scheduled task that summarises the solar-assistant data on a day basis.
I suspect that InfluxDB can do the day summarising as it's a time series database.
I use PostgreSQL as it's a product I use at work.
Once in the database, it's "simple" to use Grafana to display the data using the "Stat" visualisation.

image.thumb.png.bdc390a3c6aaf783da7d303e977e805a.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a setup an old Samsung Laptop in the kitchen so I (and family) can monitor the state of the system at a glance.
I set the browser homepage to solar-assistant.lan and disabled the screen saver:
image.thumb.png.755a54871447e4a6d0ef3af902df871a.png

 

I also setup Home Assistant to send an alert to my cell phone:
image.png.37d1fd15d0f8469ef8b20c2a64949a32.png

Edited by system32
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I have 4 x Hubble AM2 batteries.
These are 100A "1C" rated as can be seen from the LiBMS screen below.
LiBMS indicates a  charge/discharge limit = 400A (4 x 100A) from the battery bank.
The SunSynk 8k is configured lower at 150A -> 7.2kW to 7.9kW depending on the voltage.
image.png.5332300e5473a98d4620efb1ad73bfbb.png

 

On the below left, Solar-Assistant showing 7.793kW drawing from the battery bank whist grid was connected.
On the right, 6.461kW drawing from the battery bank with no grid.
image.thumb.png.ed53be4c2bfe277ff102ed880c872c4c.png

Having multiple batteries in parallel (aka bank) allows for higher current / kW to be drawn from the battery bank.

Edited by system32
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 8 months later...

2 year update - Solar PV & batter were installed 21 Nov 2021.

image.png.90c8d3e8a97e129ebbc3fdc2100346ad.png


In 2023, 81.2% of my kWh came from Solar / Self generated.
18.8% comes from grid - mostly cloudy days and winter (where we use electric heaters)

The grid meter readings from the CoJ Meter and the consumption is from a Hiking DDS238-2 WiFi meter.

In hindsight - I should have gone with east-west installation and 600W panels (I have 400W)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, system32 said:

2 year update - Solar PV & batter were installed 21 Nov 2021.

image.png.90c8d3e8a97e129ebbc3fdc2100346ad.png


In 2023, 81.2% of my kWh came from Solar / Self generated.
18.8% comes from grid - mostly cloudy days and winter (where we use electric heaters)

The grid meter readings from the CoJ Meter and the consumption is from a Hiking DDS238-2 WiFi meter.

In hindsight - I should have gone with east-west installation and 600W panels (I have 400W)

Mine was done at the same time. 600w panels would have been nice but you would have paid through your arse for them at the time. I have 420w.

Nice stats.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2022/11/21 at 3:44 PM, system32 said:

From 21 Nov 2021 to 21 Nov 2022:

  • 285 outages (load shedding + power fails + me messing around)
  • 426 hours of darkness = 17 days and 18 hours of darkness for my neighbors but none for me

The real number of outages (285) is probably closer to 200, as any period that goes past midnight counts as an additional outage.

Longest Outages:

  • 19h01m59s - 15th Oct 2022 -  lightning took out a phase in the suburb - not affected
  • 9h23m59s - 30th Oct 2022 - substation outage - not affected
  • 7h50m - 2 Nov 2022 - substation outage - 3h10m down

We were down once during the whole year for 3h10m.
From 2 Nov 16:50 to 03 Nov 00:40 (7h50m outage) which we were out for the last 3h10m.
Due to rain, the battery was at 20% SoC when the outage occurred at 16h50.
At 21h30 the battery shutdown.

3h10m in a year = EXCELLENT UP TIME 🙂
Much better EAF than Eskom.

From 22 Nov 2022 to 21 Nov 2023:

  • 658 outages (load shedding + power fails + me messing around)
  • 1327 hours of darkness = 55 days and 7 hours of darkness for my neighbors but none for me

The real number of outages (658) is probably closer to 550, as any period that goes past midnight counts as an additional outage in my logs.
We were down once or twice during the year for a few minutes when we overloaded the 8kW inverter during load shedding (stove + geyser + Kettle...), just had to reduce the load.

Longest Outages:

  • 32h30m - 2022-12-05 - problem with substation - not affected
  • 10h6m - 2023-10-22 - substation outage - not affected
  • 7h12m - 2022-12-15 - substation outage - not affected

Overall very happy to be load shedding free.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, system32 said:

From 22 Nov 2022 to 21 Nov 2023:

  • 658 outages (load shedding + power fails + me messing around)
  • 1327 hours of darkness = 55 days and 7 hours of darkness for my neighbors but none for me

The real number of outages (658) is probably closer to 550, as any period that goes past midnight counts as an additional outage in my logs.
We were down once or twice during the year for a few minutes when we overloaded the 8kW inverter during load shedding (stove + geyser + Kettle...), just had to reduce the load.

Longest Outages:

  • 32h30m - 2022-12-05 - problem with substation - not affected
  • 10h6m - 2023-10-22 - substation outage - not affected
  • 7h12m - 2022-12-15 - substation outage - not affected

Overall very happy to be load shedding free.

Love the stats, willing to share some of your config for these 🥺

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...