Hi Guys,

I am the proud owner of a 8Kw Sunsunk, 3 x Hubble AM-2, and 18 x 535W JA solar PV's. 

I must say that loadshedding has been a breeze, and have reduced grid consumption from avg 45KWH to 5KWH and still doing some fine tuning.

Two weeks ago I moved the Zero Export Power down from 80W to 0W, and then my problems started. First, in the mornings with low load, I saw that I as constantly exporting power, but limited to just over a 100W, but fluctuating. Then later in the early afternoon, having dealt with 2 geysers and normal house hold loads (up to about 7KW), I noticed that it was no longer exporting, but rather using grid even though there is enough pv available to provide 7+kw of solar energy. The grid usage fluctuates, from the low (below 100W) to as high as 400+ watt.

I was averaging around 1.5KWh per day before this, and now its 2KWh before 13:00. I have tried changing the Zero Export Power, and even at 100watts, it continues to use grid in a very fluctuating manner. the only way I can reduce this, is by increasing load, and I don't always have load to apply?

My installer recently replaced the cable from the CT coil to the inverter, and for a while everything worked perfectly with the CT coil maintaining a steady 80W, and now I have this.

Any ideas? Is this the CT coil? The IGBT?

Or, is this normal, as my installer says? It leaves me asking, why did I spend a small fortune if this cannot be managed or maintained. I want to use zero grid when I have sufficient PV available. Or did I choose the wrong product?

Any and all comments or guidance will be appreciated.

19 minutes ago, NicolasM said:

Or, is this normal, as my installer says?

You need to play around with your Zero Export Power setting to see what gives you the best result. I think 0W is not a realistic number. I have set mine to 20W and this works quite well for me. My grid consumption also bounces around a bit during the day - but in total is around 0.2kW-0.3kW per day (otherwise at the moment do not use any grid at all)

36 minutes ago, NicolasM said:

Hi Guys,

I am the proud owner of a 8Kw Sunsunk, 3 x Hubble AM-2, and 18 x 535W JA solar PV's. 

I must say that loadshedding has been a breeze, and have reduced grid consumption from avg 45KWH to 5KWH and still doing some fine tuning.

Two weeks ago I moved the Zero Export Power down from 80W to 0W, and then my problems started. First, in the mornings with low load, I saw that I as constantly exporting power, but limited to just over a 100W, but fluctuating. Then later in the early afternoon, having dealt with 2 geysers and normal house hold loads (up to about 7KW), I noticed that it was no longer exporting, but rather using grid even though there is enough pv available to provide 7+kw of solar energy. The grid usage fluctuates, from the low (below 100W) to as high as 400+ watt.

I was averaging around 1.5KWh per day before this, and now its 2KWh before 13:00. I have tried changing the Zero Export Power, and even at 100watts, it continues to use grid in a very fluctuating manner. the only way I can reduce this, is by increasing load, and I don't always have load to apply?

My installer recently replaced the cable from the CT coil to the inverter, and for a while everything worked perfectly with the CT coil maintaining a steady 80W, and now I have this.

Any ideas? Is this the CT coil? The IGBT?

Or, is this normal, as my installer says? It leaves me asking, why did I spend a small fortune if this cannot be managed or maintained. I want to use zero grid when I have sufficient PV available. Or did I choose the wrong product?

Any and all comments or guidance will be appreciated.

The SynSynk 8kW is a hybrid inverter that can feed excess back to the grid.
My SynSynk 8kW is set to trickle draw 50W from the grid to prevent "reverse feed issues" on the prepaid meter.
Not sure if "reverse feed" affects all meters or some specific models.
I think if you have a very spiky load (eg ironing), the inverter will draw/feed from the Grid to try and support the burst load

I might set the inverter to 0W trickle draw as @YellowTapemeasure did see - https://powerforum.co.za/topic/10730-sunsynk-8k-hubble-am2-16x400w-pv/?do=findComment&comment=110345 as I really don't want to pay CoJ anything more than I have to.

 

Edited November 23, 20214 yr by system32

Give us a photo of your system setting

Hi Guys,

 

Thanks for the comments and advice thus far.

Attached please find a pic of the indoor plant as well as the System Mode settings I use.

And the System Mode settings...

You have set to charge from the grid to 100% so it wont use PV power to charge your batteries. See my settings

It charges the batteries from PV until full. this is normally around 10am in the morning and uses all available pv to charge the batteries to a max of around 3.14KW or roughly 65Amps. 

It is after this phase that the "unmanaged" grid use pattern starts. It continuously uses between 80 and 430W thereafter.

In the past the CT coil kept the grid at a constant 0.5kw throughout the day. I am running off the batts from 7pm and surprisingly then the grid is maintained at whatever level I have it. 

The problem seems to manifest itselfafter the morning high loads of over 7Kwh....

Your mode settings are incorrect.

 

If your load is higher than 8kW it will supplement the balance from the grid. 

Edited November 23, 20214 yr by Pumba

I've set my SynSynk as follows:

What I think this means (as manuals/youtube) are somewhat vague:
- Work-Mode-1/Grid+Gen un-ticked don't use grid/gen to charge battery -> discharge to SOC/V value
- Work-Mode-1/20% discharge at night to 20%, switch to grid if battery drops below 20%
The Tick/Un-Tick reverses the charge/discharge logic and meaning of SOC/V during that time period.
-> Tick==Charge battery using Grid until SOC/V value reached
-> Un-Tick==Discharge battery to load until SOC/V value reached
- Work-Mode-1/Use Timer has to be set, else the inverter works like a UPS (battery used when no Grid)
- Work-Mode-2/Zero export of excess power
- Work-Mode-2/Limit to Load Only - according to Installer manual "Tick this box if you only want to supply power to the load side of the inverter"
- Work-Mode-2/Grid Trickle feed of 50W (inwards)
- Work-Mode-2/Priority Load - Use Solar for Load first any Solar excess goes to battery - I've not tested this unticked
- Shutdown 10%/Shutdown if battery falls to 10% and NO feed and NO Solar
AFAIK, At night will go to to 20% then use grid. I can used all the way down to 10% when load shedding.

I wish the documentation was a bit clearer.
Happy to be corrected.

EDIT: My version

You may need a firmware upgrade on your inverter to support Hubble AM-2.
Page 48 of the installer manual has some explanations
https://www.sunsynk.org/manuals
https://6a0f9a11-bc20-45f8-b815-9b3f4c5ed335.filesusr.com/ugd/9350f7_7fac6194b0c0449b8651d4d94e7b8bc9.pdf

Edited November 23, 20214 yr by system32
More info

7 hours ago, NicolasM said:

And the System Mode settings...

There are two problems here:

1. You have set the SoC of the batteries to 100% all day, except for the last entry. So the inverter only has two sources of power for essential loads: Grid or PV, because you have instructed it to keep batteries @ 100%. When loads exceed PV, or when PV is not sufficient, guess where it goes to fetch those Watts? The grid of course. Another thing to bear in mind is that PV is very slow to react to a sudden increase in demand. It will take Watts from grid or battery first, then slowly ramp up the PV. To fix the use of grid, change all 100% values to 95%, or even 90%, then when the batteries are above those values, the inverter can use them as a 3rd source when it needs to service sudden spikes in loads.

2. Your last entry allows your inverter to only dip into batteries at 19H00. This is a bit late, dependent on where you are the sun is long gone, so there is no PV, all it can do is feed loads from grid, because it can only draw from the battery again at 19H00. Rather set the 17H00 entry to 50%, or even 70%, that will allow a graceful blend of last rays of the sun and batteries, and minimise grid usage.        

6 hours ago, system32 said:

I've set my SynSynk as follows:

What I think this means (as manuals/youtube) are somewhat vague:
- Work-Mode-1/Grid+Gen un-ticked don't use grid/gen to charge battery -> discharge to SOC/V value
- Work-Mode-1/20% discharge at night to 20%, switch to grid if battery drops below 20%
The Tick/Un-Tick reverses the charge/discharge logic and meaning of SOC/V during that time period.
-> Tick==Charge battery using Grid until SOC/V value reached
-> Un-Tick==Discharge battery to load until SOC/V value reached
- Work-Mode-1/Use Timer has to be set, else the inverter works like a UPS (battery used when no Grid)
- Work-Mode-2/Zero export of excess power
- Work-Mode-2/Limit to Load Only - according to Installer manual "Tick this box if you only want to supply power to the load side of the inverter"
- Work-Mode-2/Grid Trickle feed of 50W (inwards)
- Work-Mode-2/Priority Load - Use Solar for Load first any Solar excess goes to battery - I've not tested this unticked
- Shutdown 10%/Shutdown if battery falls to 10% and NO feed and NO Solar
AFAIK, At night will go to to 20% then use grid. I can used all the way down to 10% when load shedding.

I wish the documentation was a bit clearer.
Happy to be corrected.

EDIT: My version

You may need a firmware upgrade on your inverter to support Hubble AM-2.
Page 48 of the installer manual has some explanations
https://www.sunsynk.org/manuals
https://6a0f9a11-bc20-45f8-b815-9b3f4c5ed335.filesusr.com/ugd/9350f7_7fac6194b0c0449b8651d4d94e7b8bc9.pdf

You have almost got it 100% right 🙂

• The inverter will use any source at its disposal to keep essentials, or "Load" alive, within constraints set regarding the battery;
• The whole timer screen revolves around the battery.
  • The inverter will draw from, or charge battery to the desired SoC, at the desired time, from PV;
    • If Load Priority is ticked, it will use PV to first service essential loads, and
      • if any PV is left over, it will use it to charge battery (even if SoC is higher than what is set);
      • if PV is too little to service essential loads, then it will draw from grid / gen;
    • If load priority is unticked:
      • It will use all PV to charge battery (even if SoC is higher than what is set)
  • If Grid or Gen or both is ticked, it will use Grid or Gen to achieve the desired SoC of the battery.
    • If the desired SoC is achieved, it will stop using Grid / Gen to charge the battery

So basically Work Mode 1 or Timer is very battery centric, but essentials take preference .

It gets a bit more complex with (non-essential) loads before the inverter, but I haven't much experience with this, only that if you untick "limit to (essential) loads" it will feed them from excess PV, and I am guessing here that battery charging will take preference unless you tick "Priority load".      

To YellowTapemeasure:

Thanks for the insights and guidance. I will certainly try your suggestions wrt dropping the SoC. BTW, are you using Hubble's?

To all who have replied - Thank You. The more we share the better our plants will deliver what we intended it to do!! Mine is to use no grid and for that reason I invested serious money in the plant as did you all.

My question is: How long does the inverter take to adjust the pv, and, does it ever stabilise, if the load remains constant?

If it does, then mine does not. I use > 3kwh per day - my day day being 0800 to 1700 where 3 weeks ago I was using less then 1.5kwh for a 23 hour day, as measured by Solarman at 11pm.

I have made no changes that could have brought about the change and erratic behaviour. I also want to be clear, I am talking about a clear sunshine day with 0% cloud cover when I have a max of 9.6KW available in PV......It seems as if the inverter just cannot maintain the pv and constantly uses the grid. the dial's just dont stop moving up and down. This is more evident at low load....

Thanks for the replies and guidance offered. 

6 hours ago, NicolasM said:

To YellowTapemeasure:

Thanks for the insights and guidance. I will certainly try your suggestions wrt dropping the SoC. BTW, are you using Hubble's?

To all who have replied - Thank You. The more we share the better our plants will deliver what we intended it to do!! Mine is to use no grid and for that reason I invested serious money in the plant as did you all.

My question is: How long does the inverter take to adjust the pv, and, does it ever stabilise, if the load remains constant?

If it does, then mine does not. I use > 3kwh per day - my day day being 0800 to 1700 where 3 weeks ago I was using less then 1.5kwh for a 23 hour day, as measured by Solarman at 11pm.

I have made no changes that could have brought about the change and erratic behaviour. I also want to be clear, I am talking about a clear sunshine day with 0% cloud cover when I have a max of 9.6KW available in PV......It seems as if the inverter just cannot maintain the pv and constantly uses the grid. the dial's just dont stop moving up and down. This is more evident at low load....

Thanks for the replies and guidance offered. 

You are welcome, please give it a try and then provide feedback? No, I don't have Hubble batteries 😞

When the inverter receives a sudden demand for power, and where the draw from the PV is low (but there is plenty of sun), it will always draw from grid and battery first, and then gradually comb the load from the PV in, you can witness this happening if you are in front of the inverter looking at the main information screen, and then switch on something like a kettle. It can take a few seconds for this to happen (and the interface also takes a second or two to update).  

I have videos of this, not exactly the same circumstances as described above, a scenario where the batteries are being charged from PV (because of overcast conditions), minimal load on essentials, and then introducing a 2K load on the essentials side. The second video introduces a load on the non-essentials. For the PV to ramp up takes around the same time.

Vid 1 on essentials: https://www.mevue.com/v/tae6gpti298

Vid 2 on non-essentials: https://www.mevue.com/v/sdgriyci299

Edit: Vid 3 on non-essentials, PV draw starts low, load is drawn from battery and grid, and PV catches up. https://www.mevue.com/v/eq8agnw4300 

 

   

Edited November 25, 20214 yr by YellowTapemeasure

5 hours ago, NicolasM said:

To YellowTapemeasure:

Thanks for the insights and guidance. I will certainly try your suggestions wrt dropping the SoC. BTW, are you using Hubble's?

To all who have replied - Thank You. The more we share the better our plants will deliver what we intended it to do!! Mine is to use no grid and for that reason I invested serious money in the plant as did you all.

My question is: How long does the inverter take to adjust the pv, and, does it ever stabilise, if the load remains constant?

If it does, then mine does not. I use > 3kwh per day - my day day being 0800 to 1700 where 3 weeks ago I was using less then 1.5kwh for a 23 hour day, as measured by Solarman at 11pm.

I have made no changes that could have brought about the change and erratic behaviour. I also want to be clear, I am talking about a clear sunshine day with 0% cloud cover when I have a max of 9.6KW available in PV......It seems as if the inverter just cannot maintain the pv and constantly uses the grid. the dial's just dont stop moving up and down. This is more evident at low load....

Thanks for the replies and guidance offered. 

1) Also suggest confirming the firmware on the Sunsynk is current.
I have Hubble AM2 and my Sunsynk firmware is able to communicate with it - check via the "LI BMS" button

This is how I understand your settings:

 

Suggest Un-tick  Grid and change SOC/V to 20% - same as my settings above.

Another important setting:
https://www.hubblelithium.co.za/sunsynk-hubble-setup.html

 

These settings (panel 1) are for a single battery.
If the load exceeds Discharge Amps 100A x 53.6V = 5360W, the inverter will draw from Grid.
The SunSynk will only charge batteries at 50A x 53.6V = 2680W

I have 4 x AM-2 (AM-2 are 1C) and I use:
Charge Amps = 100A x 53.6V = 5360W
Discharge Amps = 150A x 53.6V = 8040W

In Panel 2, I've disabled "Grid Charge" and enable "Signal ISLAND Mode" to trigger Neutral/Earth bond ATS.

The OP is actually using grid to charge his batteries from 8am to 7pm to 100% SOC, so will only use solar to essential loads when the sun is shining on the panels.

3 hours ago, Pumba said:

The OP is actually using grid to charge his batteries from 8am to 7pm to 100% SOC, so will only use solar to essential loads when the sun is shining on the panels.

Both @system32 and you are right about that, I am not sure how I missed that initially... 🙃

 

On 2021/11/23 at 9:53 PM, YellowTapemeasure said:

You have almost got it 100% right 🙂

• The inverter will use any source at its disposal to keep essentials, or "Load" alive, within constraints set regarding the battery;
• The whole timer screen revolves around the battery.
  • The inverter will draw from, or charge battery to the desired SoC, at the desired time, from PV;
    • If Load Priority is ticked, it will use PV to first service essential loads, and
      • if any PV is left over, it will use it to charge battery (even if SoC is higher than what is set);
      • if PV is too little to service essential loads, then it will draw from grid / gen;
    • If load priority is unticked:
      • It will use all PV to charge battery (even if SoC is higher than what is set)
  • If Grid or Gen or both is ticked, it will use Grid or Gen to achieve the desired SoC of the battery.
    • If the desired SoC is achieved, it will stop using Grid / Gen to charge the battery

So basically Work Mode 1 or Timer is very battery centric, but essentials take preference .

It gets a bit more complex with (non-essential) loads before the inverter, but I haven't much experience with this, only that if you untick "limit to (essential) loads" it will feed them from excess PV, and I am guessing here that battery charging will take preference unless you tick "Priority load".      

This is a far better explanation than the user manual. The one thing I am not clear on is exactly what the 'Power' column affects. And does its behaviour change if the grid/generator checkboxes are enabled. Does it limit how much power the batteries will supply during that time period (presumably the deficit then comes from the grid/generator, or PV if available)?

Actually, I think I answered most of my own question:

However, what happens if there is no grid, generator or PV during a time period with a power limit? Assuming the load exceeds the set limit. Will the inverter ignore the limit to keep the load powered?

 

The scenario I have in mind is to partially discharge the batteries once a day to keep them healthy. However, I want to do it gradually at about 0.25C. But as there are no solar panels, I am not sure exactly what will happen if load shedding occurs during this discharge interval. If there is load shedding, I would very much want the batteries to be able to discharge at the full rate allowed by the BMS.

Interesting video. I think that the Sunsynk's touchscreen interface is far better than the Sol-Ark app though, but maybe I am biased, would love to see the new Sunsynk dongle app. Hint-hint @Tariq

So let me try to get this right, second time around, edits in green red, version 1.1 1.2:

• The inverter will use any source at its disposal to keep essentials, or "Load" alive, within constraints set regarding the battery in the System Mode screen, Work Mode 1 and 2 tabs;
• The whole System Mode screen revolves around the battery:
  • The inverter will draw from, or charge battery to the desired SoC, at the desired time:
    • from PV (or Grid, or Gen if ticked, and if both ticked, then in that order. Note that Grid and Gen cannot be used simultaneously, it's either one or the other)
      • drawing from the battery, or charging the battery at the rate (W) specified in the stated power level;
  • If Load Priority is ticked, it will use PV at the specified rate (W) to first service essential loads; and
    • if any PV is left over, it will use the left-over PV to charge the battery (even if the battery SoC is higher than what is set);
    • if PV is too little, or the rate (W) set too low to service essential loads, then it will draw what it needs from Grid / Battery / Gen  to supplement PV;
  • If load priority is unticked:
    • It will use all PV to charge battery, at the specified rate (W) (and will continue to charge past the desired SoC which is set on the timer)
  • If Grid or Gen or both is ticked, it will use Grid or Gen (or if both ticked, then in that order) to achieve the desired SoC of the battery. Note that Grid and Gen cannot be used simultaneously, it's either one or the other;
    • If the desired SoC is achieved for the timeslot, unlike PV it will stop using Grid / Gen to charge the battery. It does not like to waste PV.
• Note that battery charge / discharge rates in the timer are overridden by the values in the Battery Setup screen, Batt Type, Batt Charge and Shut Down tabs.

I hope to get this right in order to help newbies, I know that I spent 3 days trying to figure it out through trial and error 🙄 So please double check me, any edits are welcome.

Edited April 21, 20233 yr by YellowTapemeasure
Update

2 hours ago, YellowTapemeasure said:

if PV is too little, or the rate (W) set too low to service essential loads, then it will draw what it needs from Grid / Gen / Battery to supplement PV;

I assume there is an order it will 'source' the power in for this case. Is battery last?

2 hours ago, YellowTapemeasure said:

Note that battery charge / discharge rates in the timer are overridden by the values in the Battery Setup screen, Batt Type, Batt Charge and Shut Down tabs.

Perhaps good to specifically mention that the BMS comms will affect these as well. My understanding is that the lesser of 'Battery Setup' and BMS are used when determining a rate, so you can't force the battery bank into too high a rate but you can lower it. The precise order of what else takes priority over what eludes me so far.

7 minutes ago, BobTheBuilder said:

3 hours ago, YellowTapemeasure said:

Note that battery charge / discharge rates in the timer are overridden by the values in the Battery Setup screen, Batt Type, Batt Charge and Shut Down tabs.

Perhaps good to specifically mention that the BMS comms will affect these as well. My understanding is that the lesser of 'Battery Setup' and BMS are used when determining a rate, so you can't force the battery bank into too high a rate but you can lower it. The precise order of what else takes priority over what eludes me so far.

You are right, will add it. Starting to get complex, maybe need a visual decision flow chart.

7 minutes ago, BobTheBuilder said:

3 hours ago, YellowTapemeasure said:

if PV is too little, or the rate (W) set too low to service essential loads, then it will draw what it needs from Grid / Gen / Battery to supplement PV;

I assume there is an order it will 'source' the power in for this case. Is battery last?

Good question, need to test it. I wold probably say Grid, Battery then Gen because Gen takes a while (20-30s) to kick in.

Hi Guys,

I have been quiet the last couple of days, as I was testing a number of permutations. Because of the cloudy weather we had, on Friday eve I reverted back to my original settings because I need full SoC to see me through the night.

Following suggestions from a number of people above, I followed @system32 's advise and requested an software/firmware upgrade. This was done on Saturday morning. Apart from a brief no supply, this was done seamlessly and I must say, very professionally. 

I have since been monitoring and I can report back that my Trickle Charge (previously Zero Export Power) is as stable as one would want it!!! So clearly the CT Coil is doing its job. Perhaps the inverter needed a reboot...not that I know how to do it - maybe a future discussion of how to reboot your Sunsunk Inverter would be welcomed by not only me but probably for all newbies as this is the one lesson I have learnt as my knowledge grows: dont do things that you dont understand the implications of!!!!

This brings me to a point. Why cant someone, i.e. the PowerForum, or even Sunsynk SA, organise an end-user event where we could ask questions, and share our experiences. To me it is not wanting to become an installer, it is about being able to tweak my inverter or even my plant, to provide me with the best possible return on investment!

When I read everyone's comments, the common thread is clearly that we all have our own understanding of how to do things. This means there is a major gap between what the manual says, and what end-users have been able to figure out for themselves and apply to their plants.

Who exactly needs to take the lead with creating an end-user conference, or whatever it is called, I do not know, but I am sure we would all welcome such an event.

Please let me have your thoughts guys and feel free to comment in case I am missing the boat.

Take Care and to each and everyone that commented - THANK YOU!!!!

9 minutes ago, NicolasM said:

Hi Guys,

I have been quiet the last couple of days, as I was testing a number of permutations. Because of the cloudy weather we had, on Friday eve I reverted back to my original settings because I need full SoC to see me through the night.

Following suggestions from a number of people above, I followed @system32 's advise and requested an software/firmware upgrade. This was done on Saturday morning. Apart from a brief no supply, this was done seamlessly and I must say, very professionally. 

I have since been monitoring and I can report back that my Trickle Charge (previously Zero Export Power) is as stable as one would want it!!! So clearly the CT Coil is doing its job. Perhaps the inverter needed a reboot...not that I know how to do it - maybe a future discussion of how to reboot your Sunsunk Inverter would be welcomed by not only me but probably for all newbies as this is the one lesson I have learnt as my knowledge grows: dont do things that you dont understand the implications of!!!!

This brings me to a point. Why cant someone, i.e. the PowerForum, or even Sunsynk SA, organise an end-user event where we could ask questions, and share our experiences. To me it is not wanting to become an installer, it is about being able to tweak my inverter or even my plant, to provide me with the best possible return on investment!

When I read everyone's comments, the common thread is clearly that we all have our own understanding of how to do things. This means there is a major gap between what the manual says, and what end-users have been able to figure out for themselves and apply to their plants.

Who exactly needs to take the lead with creating an end-user conference, or whatever it is called, I do not know, but I am sure we would all welcome such an event.

Please let me have your thoughts guys and feel free to comment in case I am missing the boat.

Take Care and to each and everyone that commented - THANK YOU!!!!

Interesting that you should mention it, but Sunsynk does provide free training to installers, so clearly they will get preference, but if they are not booked, they may consider a shortened morning or afternoon session for enthusiastic end-users?