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Adding of Panels.


Etiennet

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Good day,

I have a 5KVA Kodak King Inverter 2 x USB2000B Pylontech Batteries, and just added 4 Canadian Panels to start with.  I also have ICC

Is there any settings that I need to change since the panels were only installed today?

I see on ICC MPPT1 Volt but no PV WATTS and no MPPT1 AMPS?

image.thumb.png.2563b371b404feb9bc869225c575ed29.png

Can anyone assist me? Sorry I am new to this lol 

Edited by Etiennet
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I suggest you disconnect the panels from the axpert King. The maximum voltage it can take from the solar panels is 145v, at 163 volts you risk damaging the solar charger. I suspect the inverter has shut off the solar to protect itself.  Did they add all 4 in series or did they add 2 pairs of 2 panels in series?

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59 minutes ago, John said:

Did they add all 4 in series or did they add 2 pairs of 2 panels in series?

From what I can see 163/4=41Volts. All 4 panels in series. 

You are correct Johan, I think the inverter has disconnected the solar to protect itself. 

@Etiennet, you will have to connect 1 or 2 of those panels in parallel to reduce the solar panel voltage.

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On 2021/12/03 at 8:34 PM, Etiennet said:

On another note can these axpert king be set to switch off when the battery gets to SOC 20%?

Hi Etiennet, yes. In programme 12 "Setting voltage point back to utility" is your voltage when the inverter will normally switch back to utility, if available. Under normal circumstances you would probably set the voltage to say when your batteries reach 30 or 40% SOC. Then the inverter will switch to line mode and supply the load from utility. 

If utility is not available and the load remains on battery, then the cut off voltage in programme 29 comes into play. That is when the inverter will shut down to prevent the batteries from being drained completely. Check your battery voltage at 20% SOC and put that voltage in programme 29. The inverter will then shut down when reaching this voltage and your batteries are at 20% SOC.

 

On 2021/12/05 at 9:24 AM, Etiennet said:

@Don

Can one leave the inverter to just charge batteries?  We are without power for 5 days and I would like to leave my house and let the batteries charge and don't worry that the inverter will switch off if the batteries run flat.

 

 

No. The inverter will always supply the load and charge the batteries at the same time, irrespective if it is from solar, batteries or utility, or a combination of those sources. You cannot only charge batteries with the inverter as the inverter need to power the loads at the same time. 

You can only prioritise how you would like to charge the batteries. For example if you want to only charge your batteries as a priority with solar and feed load with excess solar you can do that in programme 16. You can select "SBL, UDC" , solar energy will charge the battery as first priority and disallow utility to charge the battery. However, if no solar or utility is available and the load keeps running off the battery, once it reaches the cut-off voltage set in programme 29, it will shut down.

Edited by Don
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8 minutes ago, Etiennet said:

To Grid and to Solar SBU?

Hi Ettiennet, if you set programme 1 to SbU, it means that solar will try and provide power to all your loads as priority. If not enough solar power is available, the battery will supply the shortfall to power all your loads. As clouds move before the sun and solar power drops, the shortfall in power requirement will be made up from battery. If you set the setting to SUb, the shortfall will come from utility (Eskom).

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you can safely ignore the "use time for control" at the bottom of my post/image.

There are optimal settings for pylontech batteries, could you maybe send a screenshot of what your currently using, so they can be verified.

depending on your goals, the settings you mentioned (sbu,sub and more) can be mixed and matched between solar, batteries and utility for the optimum outcome. 

usually everyone's goals are different, but the best outcome can always be found.

Could I also possibly suggest you upgrade from your windows icc (V2 odd) to something more recent (v 4.9) or rather icm, it doesnt even need a pi, I installed mine on an unused android tv box, which I installed ubuntu on, still working great. You'll enjoy the freeing up of your laptop no end plus the benefit of yrs of extra features/stability.

regarding icc, I enjoy it because it means I don't have to make one (read time and money) and it works, sure it could use a few ideas here and there, so I send those through. The recent android app is the result of one of those ideas (thanks for listening). I'm hoping the next idea makes it, predictive pv output based on weather, with hourly outcomes, also it may not make it through, but here's hoping.

I already use this feature independently, daily atm.

Edited by Nitrious
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On 2021/12/06 at 1:19 PM, Don said:

Hi Etiennet, yes. In programme 12 "Setting voltage point back to utility" is your voltage when the inverter will normally switch back to utility, if available. Under normal circumstances you would probably set the voltage to say when your batteries reach 30 or 40% SOC. Then the inverter will switch to line mode and supply the load from utility. 

If utility is not available and the load remains on battery, then the cut off voltage in programme 29 comes into play. That is when the inverter will shut down to prevent the batteries from being drained completely. Check your battery voltage at 20% SOC and put that voltage in programme 29. The inverter will then shut down when reaching this voltage and your batteries are at 20% SOC.

 

No. The inverter will always supply the load and charge the batteries at the same time, irrespective if it is from solar, batteries or utility, or a combination of those sources. You cannot only charge batteries with the inverter as the inverter need to power the loads at the same time. 

You can only prioritise how you would like to charge the batteries. For example if you want to only charge your batteries as a priority with solar and feed load with excess solar you can do that in programme 16. You can select "SBL, UDC" , solar energy will charge the battery as first priority and disallow utility to charge the battery. However, if no solar or utility is available and the load keeps running off the battery, once it reaches the cut-off voltage set in programme 29, it will shut down.

Thanks Don

 

Do you perhaps know why the Volts is so high and the Watts low at 14:17?

image.thumb.png.de34a4a8a3442c23ad070d161b0a656c.png

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@Etiennet

These are the recommended Pylontech battery settings

Setting 2: Charging Current: 25Amp per Pylon
Setting 12: 48V – Back to Grid
Setting 13: 51V – Back to Battery
Setting 26: 53.2V – Bulk Charge Voltage
Setting 27: 53.2V – Float Charge Voltage
Setting 29: 47.5V- Battery Cut Out

Because you set your output priority to utility => Solar => Battery, and your charger priority to effectively solar only, your inverter is doing exactly as you asked.

1. Charging your battery's from solar which are now charged hence the lack of current/watts  (the solar and battery charge graph lines follow each other perfectly).

2. Using utility as the main output, so its still in load shed mode basically.

4x panels aren't enough to carry the load and charge batteries (obviously).

You need another 4 - 8 panels to carry your daily load, and charge your batteries imo.

8 panels in total you could get away with.

12 panels in total would allow you to avoid unnecessary cycling of your batteries during the day. Here you'd need to keep an eye on your max current.

per 4x panels you should get around 1000w by around 8:30am, peaking at around 1500w.

Could you possibly send a screenshot of the Pylontech tab.

 

 

Edited by Nitrious
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On 2021/12/07 at 2:18 PM, Etiennet said:

Do you perhaps know why the Volts is so high and the Watts low at 14:17?

The battery volts are just fine. It seems the battery was fully charged on solar just after 13h00. The PV Watts are low at 15 W while your load is sitting around a 1000W. Seeing that the battery is fully charged, the excess solar should be going to your load. Instead it is utilising utility for load. Change the "Output Source Priority" to Solar>Utility>Battery? You want to use all available solar for load and only the shortfall should come from utility. Currently it is set to make use of utility, even if solar is available. 

I have my "Bulk Charging Voltage" = 52.6V (The recommended 53.2V is too high in my view). My "Float Charge Voltage" = 52.0V. My "Battery Cut Off Voltage" = 46.0V

Your "Back to Discharge Voltage" = 54V. That is too high. Your battery will never reach that voltage. Reduce that setting to 51V.

 

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3 hours ago, Don said:

The battery volts are just fine. It seems the battery was fully charged on solar just after 13h00. The PV Watts are low at 15 W while your load is sitting around a 1000W. Seeing that the battery is fully charged, the excess solar should be going to your load. Instead it is utilising utility for load. Change the "Output Source Priority" to Solar>Utility>Battery? You want to use all available solar for load and only the shortfall should come from utility. Currently it is set to make use of utility, even if solar is available. 

I have my "Bulk Charging Voltage" = 52.6V (The recommended 53.2V is too high in my view). My "Float Charge Voltage" = 52.0V. My "Battery Cut Off Voltage" = 46.0V

Your "Back to Discharge Voltage" = 54V. That is too high. Your battery will never reach that voltage. Reduce that setting to 51V.

 

Thanks Don, I made the changes as per your post.

 

We have been without power for 7 days now so using Generator to also power the system during the cloudy days.

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1 hour ago, Etiennet said:

We have been without power for 7 days now so using Generator to also power the system during the cloudy days.

If that is the case, you need to increase solar panels as soon as your budget allows. Running off a generator is expensive and inefficient. 

Edited by Don
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@Don

Yip that is my plan, but we have a little one coming April Next year so funds are a bit tight lol.

 

4 minutes ago, Don said:

If that is the case, you need to increase solar panels as soon as your budget allows. Running off a generator is expensive and inefficient. 

Just a quick one, by setting the cut off Voltage and the Inverter shuts down the Batteries, when the sun is up and feeding the panels will that restore power or not?  

is that even possible?

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Yes, that is where setting 13 or on ICC setting "Back to discharge voltage" comes in. Once your batteries reach that battery voltage, the system will start running off batteries again if no utility is available. 

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in a pinch your setup could power the house, and can provide around 11 units a day (theoretical max) weather dependent.

your batteries store 4 units (3.7) for night time use, which need to be replenished, leaving 6-7 units available for day time loads.

the trick is to fit your loads into the above energy availability, maybe look at gas for cooking etc.

the lower your "Back to discharge voltage" is , the sooner your system will use solar for loads instead of charging the batteries, so if theres an urgent need, you can reduce it lower than 51v, and can be played with a bit to suit the situation.

your 1500w peak should be from 9~10 <-> 2 ~ 3 , this extra 500w could be used to charge the batteries, leaving the bulk 1000w available for the house during most of the day.

check for the usual to ensure solar production, shading, pointing north, 28 deg tilt, and to get the max out of them, clean them with a floor foam mop and water. you should get an 10% or so out of them, depending on soiling.

This is a theoretical view of your hourly production, its more or less accurate. Hope it helps.

image.png.517d78371cb21a85de8a5a041e80af32.png

Edited by Nitrious
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5 hours ago, Nitrious said:

in a pinch your setup could power the house, and can provide around 11 units a day (theoretical max) weather dependent.

your batteries store 4 units (3.7) for night time use, which need to be replenished, leaving 6-7 units available for day time loads.

the trick is to fit your loads into the above energy availability, maybe look at gas for cooking etc.

the lower your "Back to discharge voltage" is , the sooner your system will use solar for loads instead of charging the batteries, so if theres an urgent need, you can reduce it lower than 51v, and can be played with a bit to suit the situation.

your 1500w peak should be from 9~10 <-> 2 ~ 3 , this extra 500w could be used to charge the batteries, leaving the bulk 1000w available for the house during most of the day.

check for the usual to ensure solar production, shading, pointing north, 28 deg tilt, and to get the max out of them, clean them with a floor foam mop and water. you should get an 10% or so out of them, depending on soiling.

This is a theoretical view of your hourly production, its more or less accurate. Hope it helps.

image.png.517d78371cb21a85de8a5a041e80af32.png

Thank you so much @Nitrious

 

Really appreciate it! helps ALOT! 

You guys rock! 

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