What are the options for a utility or fridge battery for in vehicle use?

Most likely switchable between charging from the car or from a solar panel depending on situation.

I see these Hoselect batteries are cheap at R3,300 for 200AH and the form factor makes it easy to add to the bakkie loadbin.
https://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/543049507/12V_200AH_Slimline_Gel_Battery_Hoselect.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAuvOPBhDXARIsAKzLQ8HS3PUYkQvJBZLS0xW_v0Y5yNpLFElFpgt6pLpk6PDyst1cQlPjCugaAsVjEALw_wcB

How about building a 100ah battery from 32700 cells? About R4,400 for batteries thus say R6k complete?
https://lithiumbatteriessa.co.za/collections/cells/products/3-2v-6ah-lifepo4-lithium-ion-phosphate-battery-call

Am I on the wrong forum? Not a single response  🙄

maybe give some info on car type (space availability), load voltages and current draw, expected run time between charging.

your in car options can range from alternator 2nd battery charging to  solar charger to 24v inverter.

Some suggestions can be offered here, but a quick Google search will yield some models with pricing. 

Suggest to use sla's rather than li ion, unless you buy a rugged made for purpose li ion battery pack. 

Anyway my thoughts below, its put together to suit a range of ideas that may be useful. (hopefully)

My Landy has a second battery controller in the engine bay, along with display by the dash. Its setup is simply to push the output to the trailer plug.

There is space for a "normal" second car battery under the bonnet but not exactly anything useful and I usually need all 7 seats when using the Landy on outings, so cabin space is at a premium. Sure I also have the 4x4 heavy duty roof rack, but its useful to sit on when watching game go by. 

My suggestion is to build a 4x4 trailer, or get one built. Buying is expensive but can give ideas of design and features. You can add gas, solar, batteries, inverter, panels, a tent, whatever you want actually. and you don't wind up messing around with your car, just attached the trailer and go.

even a cheap 2nd hand caravan maybe ? 

Considering the use case of not cycling daily, I would go SLA's rather than Li Ion, also maybe consider a 24v inverter with 2x 200ah SLA batts and panels to suit.

I buy my deep cycle 170ah - 200ah good used at near scrap prices, use and abuse them until they die as at the price, they're effectively disposable. (and off to scrap they go) 

My 2c worth.

Edited February 5, 20223 yr by Nitrious

Thanks Nitrious.

I am asking about batteries more in general.  Let's ignore the vehicle, charging system, space, etc. for now.

Most dual battery systems use a similar battery. Usually around 100ah and a sealed lead acid or gel lead acid battery for around R3000-R4000.

Li-ion for 12V is not really suitable for 12V and highish risk etc.

The Hoselect as above and image below:
- 200ah for a very good price at R3300
- form factor not suitable for engine bay but makes it very suitable for in the back of a bakkie or behind a seat or in a caravan
- if it is suitable for solar then it should be fine for vehicle use? any reasons not?

 LiFePO4 Lifepo4
- Why do we not see more of these in 12V applications?
- 100ah for not much more than a 100ah gel deep cycle battery
- Can discharge much lower without long term damage (not too low though)
- light weight makes a difference in overlanding/packing weight
- low weight can make it maybe more transferrable if you want to relocate between vehicles or caravan or loose standing with solar panel

 

 

From my previous research, a car alternator does not provide enough voltage to charge a deep cycle battery successfully for constant use in the vehicle. Also the deep cycle batteries are not designed to provide enough CCA to start the car in cold conditions. 
 

However, I know the above only from research. Haven’t tried one of those batteries in a vehicle. 

28 minutes ago, Pietpower said:

 LiFePO4 Lifepo4
- Why do we not see more of these in 12V applications?
- 100ah for not much more than a 100ah gel deep cycle battery
- Can discharge much lower without long term damage (not too low though)
- light weight makes a difference in overlanding/packing weight
- low weight can make it maybe more transferrable if you want to relocate between vehicles or caravan or loose standing with solar panel

don't forget not so forgiveable on the temperature ranges that it would be subjected to in that environment, higher temperatures probably not such a huge deal, but low temperatures, assuming you go see the wild in winter, they would not be too happy... usually single digit positive °C temperatures and lower can severely shorten LiFePO4's life...

1 hour ago, Kalahari Meerkat said:

don't forget not so forgiveable on the temperature ranges that it would be subjected to in that environment, higher temperatures probably not such a huge deal, but low temperatures, assuming you go see the wild in winter, they would not be too happy... usually single digit positive °C temperatures and lower can severely shorten LiFePO4's life...

Thanks

My motorcycle has a lifepo4 battery. Not really a problem although you might have to swing it twice on cold mornings to get some heat in the battery.

If say installed in the load area of a bakkie and running a fridge overnight would it not keep itself warm enough not to get damaged?

When not in use does it also get damage?

When cold I presume a low temp disconnect would be required to prevent charging and damage.

 

On 2022/02/07 at 9:29 AM, Pietpower said:

LiFePO4 Lifepo4
- Why do we not see more of these in 12V applications?
- 100ah for not much more than a 100ah gel deep cycle battery
- Can discharge much lower without long term damage (not too low though)
- light weight makes a difference in overlanding/packing weight
- low weight can make it maybe more transferrable if you want to relocate between vehicles or caravan or loose standing with solar panel

Lead Acid have wider operating conditions (temperature) than Lithium.  They are also significantly safer.  The automotive temperature range and safety are enormously important factors for vehicles.

For internal combustion engines (ICE), Lithium doesn't make sense.  There just isn't enough positives to outweigh the wide operating band and significant safety margin you get with lead acid.

Naturally there will be people who have run Lithium in their ICE engines that will lecture me about how their experience was good, no problems, etc.  But the science is pretty solid on this.  For a large company making cars, it doesn't make sense to switch away from something that is incredible safe and already works 5+ years before replacement, is cheap and reliable to something that is a serious fire hazard, requires extensive protection (ie. complexity) just to *maybe* get a few extra years.  It is a huge engineering effort to go a step backward.

For electric cars the considerations are totally different and they can invest the cost of keeping the battery in its perfect operating conditions and safety systems in exchange for the significant increase in energy density and weight.

2 hours ago, Gnome said:

For internal combustion engines (ICE), Lithium doesn't make sense.  

Naturally there will be people who have run Lithium in their ICE engines that will lecture me about how their experience was good, no problems, etc. 

Please note that this thread is not about Lithium for ICE engines.  I am not looking at starter batteries.
There is also a big difference between lithium ion batteries and Lifepo4

This thread is about 12V battery backup systems. Yes it is mostly used in vehicles, RVs, camping etc.
You will normally run items like lighting, fridges, chargers.  All items similar to a home installation.

On the one hand you have 12V deep cycle systems for vehicles with engine bay batteries etc.
On the other hand you have 48V Lithium solar systems for home use.
But not much inbetween such as a 12V system on solar with a small inverter.

Lets remove the car and think about a off grid caravan or mobile home or bush hut.

It makes sense to go 12V for lights and stuff for efficiency and safety and getting away from 220V wiring and COCs

For solar and charge controllers there are many options available. System might be combined with inverter to maybe run a laptop, tv, fridge or even microwave.

But what are the options for batteries?
- Li-ion is not an option for 12V as 3 cells are too low and 4 too high a voltage
- Lifepo4 is an option but is it feasible
- Solar batteries are an option which ones.