Good evening,

I'm wondering if there are any other members around with experience on parallel Sunsynk inverters with Hubble's AM-10 battery?

We're having endless issues. No matter what we do to the settings, the battery won't charge with more than around 1kW. That translates to around 10A per inverter (in parallel configuration).

This is a 0.75C 10kWh battery able to slurp up 150A.... Yet, it doesn't. We have many of them on single inverters and no problem. On a parallel setup however - nada...

Has anybody had similar issues or know of a fix? Is it BMS related when the inverters are parallel? I dunno?

 

Pic of the LiBMS screen?

Also, is only the Master inverter CAN comms cable connected to the battery?

Also need pics of your battery setup screens and your Sytem Mode screen.

Edited February 8, 20233 yr by YellowTapemeasure

Well, I hope this is going to help someone in future. YellowTapemeasure (is it Stanley? 😁), LiBMS screen showed normal and proper comms with battery. CAN cable connected to master inverter only. Parallel cable between inverters. All good. Even tested continuity.

Performed manual reset on Hubble by discharging to less than 10% SOC (set in AGM V mode), then charging up again to realign voltage markers with BMS. After this procedure, tested again but charge rate still limited to around 20A or just over 1kW. The BMS current limitation shows 150A - all good, That's what this battery is supposed to be able to handle. Many hours of frustration and a call to Hubble's technical support desk - I decided to check the pinout on the specially made up battery cable. For the AM-10 and Sunsynk pins 2,4&5 are used. Opened the inverter and checked the plug. All good. Pins 2,4&5 - check. Even more frustration. Thought to myself I wasted a trip to site to check a damn cable and there's nothing wrong with it. Just for entertainment purposes, I decided to edulge the very friendly dog and go and lie on my back to check the battery side plug too. It was dark and with an all too friendly and excited dog all over me, pulled the plug and squinted at the pinout. Something looked odd. Could it be? Grabbed the phone for more light - really?? Got up and grabbed the number two reading glasses... Dog got very excited to see me lie flat on the floor again. True as nuts - the battery plug had a different pinout to the inverter.

Just for reference, some inverter battery pinouts have to be different, sometimes even crossed over. The Sunsynk 5kW and Hubble AM-10 however requires a straight through 2, 4 & 5 pinout. Mine was not that...

It turned out that a specially ordered cable was either made wrong or the wrong cable was supplied (albeit marked for Sunsynk/Hubble).

Made up a new cable, plugged it in and went home (loadshedding in progress). When loadshedding ended I was very disappointed to see the same symptoms - slow charge rate. I was so hopeful that the cable was the issue. I then decided to do a remote factory reset once more and re programmed the settings.

The system came online and low and behold, the charge rate picked up, and up, and up! With bated breath I watched the charge power tick up to 5kW, and it settled there, and remained there till the battery was full. I could not believe it. Three days of frustration was over. A simple little thing that was overlooked, and never suspected since we had proper readings on the LiBMS screen.

Goes to show - If your system does funny things, check everything, especially the basics.

 

Hi,

I am now experiencing the same issue with a client's AM10 battery. It is rated for 150A (according to the advertisement and datasheet), but it doesn't even get close to that and shuts down at 117A.

The manual and datasheet specs are different. On the datasheet it indicates the max continuous discharge current to be 150A but in the manual it states "Charge/Discharge Current(A) Same Port 100A", so which one is correct?

Also, the manual states the operating voltage to be "Operating Voltage Range 40V-58.4V", which sound incorrect. When the battery is at 100% SOC it never goes above 56.9V. So what is the correct voltage operating range?

The battery has been working ok since December, but now shuts down when the current goes above 100A (which matches the manual's max discharge current, but not the advertised 150A)

This is quite disappointing for a battery that cost in excess of R65k.

 

Induna, as a matter of interest, what inverter do you have connected there? 117A x 48V = 5.6kW. That looks somewhat like the maximum a single Sunsynk 5kW inverter will supply. Are you not perhaps maxing out on inverter power instead of battery?

3 hours ago, Andre Burger said:

Induna, as a matter of interest, what inverter do you have connected there? 117A x 48V = 5.6kW. That looks somewhat like the maximum a single Sunsynk 5kW inverter will supply. Are you not perhaps maxing out on inverter power instead of battery?

It is a 8kw Sunsynk. The charge and discharge limits are set at 150A, and the client never goes over that. It worked fine since its installation in December, but since yesterday, if the utility power is off, and it goes over 100A, then the inverter gives an F56 fault and the system switches off.

Another thing, the Sunsynk app is not reporting any faults, zero. The client sent me screenshots of the inverter's fault page, which indicated F56 errors.

Would it help if I do a factory reset of the inverter, or is this caused by the Hubble BMS? If I do a factory reset of the inverter, would it reset the data logger also? The inverter is 350km away from me, so I would still want to have the ability to remotely manage it, even when performing a factory reset and re-enter the settings.

Edited February 18, 20233 yr by Induna
Added info

If they trying to pull 150A when the battery is at say 50% there is not enough power to supply.

So 40% of 5000watys is 2000watts so if you need to supply anything above 2000watts it will shut down as there is no more than 2000watts left in the tank. 

 

That is my understanding as I would have a 6kwh and a 5kw Sunsynk shut down at 40% when load was more than 2000watts 

8 minutes ago, Dylboy said:

If they trying to pull 150A when the battery is at say 50% there is not enough power to supply.

So 40% of 5000watys is 2000watts so if you need to supply anything above 2000watts it will shut down as there is no more than 2000watts left in the tank. 

 

That is my understanding as I would have a 6kwh and a 5kw Sunsynk shut down at 40% when load was more than 2000watts 

not true. At 50% the battery is at 52.2V, so at 150A it can still supply 7830W. At 20% (which is the AM10 limit for 80%DOD) it can still supply 7680W at 150A.

12 minutes ago, Induna said:

not true. At 50% the battery is at 52.2V, so at 150A it can still supply 7830W. At 20% (which is the AM10 limit for 80%DOD) it can still supply 7680W at 150A.

Indeed.

Induna, I would try the remote factory reset. It helped in our case. Also, ask your client to double check the can cable pin-outs please. We assumed it as being correct since it was supplied for the Sunsynk/Hubble pairing - but alas...

Should be as follows for the AM-10.

 

Intresting, so a 5kwh battery at 1c can supply 5kw of power even if the state of charge is at 30% ?

Just now, Dylboy said:

Intresting, so a 5kwh battery at 1c can supply 5kw of power even if the state of charge is at 30% ?

yup even lower than that it should be able to supply 5kw till its basically totally empty.

5 hours ago, Nexuss said:

yup even lower than that it should be able to supply 5kw till its basically totally empty.

That's interesting indeed! I didn't see it as that rather percent of power. Then I need to go tweak some stuff on that other install as they not getting full capacity.

On 2023/02/09 at 10:32 PM, Andre Burger said:

Well, I hope this is going to help someone in future. YellowTapemeasure (is it Stanley? 😁), LiBMS screen showed normal and proper comms with battery. CAN cable connected to master inverter only. Parallel cable between inverters. All good. Even tested continuity.

Performed manual reset on Hubble by discharging to less than 10% SOC (set in AGM V mode), then charging up again to realign voltage markers with BMS. After this procedure, tested again but charge rate still limited to around 20A or just over 1kW. The BMS current limitation shows 150A - all good, That's what this battery is supposed to be able to handle. Many hours of frustration and a call to Hubble's technical support desk - I decided to check the pinout on the specially made up battery cable. For the AM-10 and Sunsynk pins 2,4&5 are used. Opened the inverter and checked the plug. All good. Pins 2,4&5 - check. Even more frustration. Thought to myself I wasted a trip to site to check a damn cable and there's nothing wrong with it. Just for entertainment purposes, I decided to edulge the very friendly dog and go and lie on my back to check the battery side plug too. It was dark and with an all too friendly and excited dog all over me, pulled the plug and squinted at the pinout. Something looked odd. Could it be? Grabbed the phone for more light - really?? Got up and grabbed the number two reading glasses... Dog got very excited to see me lie flat on the floor again. True as nuts - the battery plug had a different pinout to the inverter.

Just for reference, some inverter battery pinouts have to be different, sometimes even crossed over. The Sunsynk 5kW and Hubble AM-10 however requires a straight through 2, 4 & 5 pinout. Mine was not that...

It turned out that a specially ordered cable was either made wrong or the wrong cable was supplied (albeit marked for Sunsynk/Hubble).

Made up a new cable, plugged it in and went home (loadshedding in progress). When loadshedding ended I was very disappointed to see the same symptoms - slow charge rate. I was so hopeful that the cable was the issue. I then decided to do a remote factory reset once more and re programmed the settings.

The system came online and low and behold, the charge rate picked up, and up, and up! With bated breath I watched the charge power tick up to 5kW, and it settled there, and remained there till the battery was full. I could not believe it. Three days of frustration was over. A simple little thing that was overlooked, and never suspected since we had proper readings on the LiBMS screen.

Goes to show - If your system does funny things, check everything, especially the basics.

 

Nope, don't know a Stanley 😃

I am glad that you got it sorted though, and thanks for sharing the issue, we can all learn plenty from it. What's interesting is that despite the LiBMS screen displaying correct values, it still throttled the inverter's charge rate. This is where a Cloudlink may be somewhat useful, but a proper sniffer like wireshark would definitely show it up. I should make up a dongle with 3 RJ-45 ports so that it can be used for future troubleshooting.

OK, so I got feedback from Hubble, and it is not good. Just for reference, this is what the AM10 specs says, as well as the specs advertised on Segen's website:

From Hubble:

Rated Capacity (5HR): 200Ah 

Nominal Voltage: 51.2V 

Design Capacity: 10KWH 

Equalized Charge Voltage: 55.2V 

Max. Continuous Charging Current: 150A 

Max. Continuous Discharging Current: 150A 

 

From Segen:

Weight:
99 kg
Battery Type:
Lithium Ion
Nominal Energy:
10240 Wh
Depth of discharge:
100.00 %
Voltage:
48 V
Continuous Discharge Rate (Normal Use):
7680 W
Maximum Discharge Rate (5 Minutes):
7680 W
Surge Discharge Rate (15 Seconds):
7680 W
Maximum Charge Rate (5 Minutes):
7680 W

 

Hubble now have confirmed that the battery cannot supply 150A continuous and can only do 112A (0,75C). Although their datasheet explicitly states MAX CONTINUOUS CURRENT 150A, this is a lie and now I have a customer who cannot use the full potential (or even close) of his backup system.

This is false advertising and sell batteries which cannot meet their published specs. Also, Segen states 100% DOD but in the Hubble manual it says only 80% DOD, so which one is it?

Be aware.

 

17 minutes ago, Induna said:

Hubble now have confirmed that the battery cannot supply 150A continuous and can only do 112A (0,75C). Although their datasheet explicitly states MAX CONTINUOUS CURRENT 150A, this is a lie and now I have a customer who cannot use the full potential (or even close) of his backup system.

Thanks for posting, but a slightly different view, that if this is correct, then a 200Ah or 10kWh battery that can supply just 112A, it's not a 0.75C battery, more like a plus-sized 0.5C battery. Best matched to a 5kW inverter for people who need a bit more storage than a single 5kWh battery, hopefully at a better price than just buying two 0.5C 5kWh batteries.

I think Hubble Lithium should get aboard and explain very quickly in order to avert very difficult publicity.

@Induna did they give you this information in writing?

This as part of their Product manual:

4 minutes ago, Andre Burger said:

I think Hubble Lithium should get aboard and explain very quickly in order to avert very difficult publicity.

@Induna did they give you this information in writing?

This as part of their Product manual:

Yes I have an email trail confirming this. What you are indicating is one of the issues I raised to them. The data sheet says 150A continuous, but the manual says "same port 100A", which are conflicting statements. I also pointed out that the manual does not point out the voltages for float, empty and shutoff, should a user opt to use voltage mode rather than CAN.

Coupled with the published specs on the Segen website, there is even more confusion, and now I have a battery that is a turkey to my customer... I now have to replace the battery with 2x5kW batteries that are capable of supplying 150A to meet the customer's requirements. 

This shows how false advertising or incorrect data affect installers, customers and their pockets, and the battery manufacturer and distributor distance themselves from claims.

And this from Hubble's web page on the AM-10:

Someone's calculator malfunctioned.....

0.75 x 200Ah ≠ 112A....

It's not even ≈ 112A....

0.5C x 200Ah ≈ hmmmm....

I know of a few clients who's gonna be a bit upset tomorrow.

 

11 minutes ago, GreenFields said:

Thanks for posting, but a slightly different view, that if this is correct, then a 200Ah or 10kWh battery that can supply just 112A, it's not a 0.75C battery, more like a plus-sized 0.5C battery. Best matched to a 5kW inverter for people who need a bit more storage than a single 5kWh battery, hopefully at a better price than just buying two 0.5C 5kWh batteries.

2x5kW batteries (Revov) is actually much cheaper than buying a single AM10, and you can do over 8kW with 2xRevov batteries.

9 minutes ago, Andre Burger said:

And this from Hubble's web page on the AM-10:

Someone's calculator malfunctioned.....

0.75 x 200Ah ≠ 112A....

It's not even ≈ 112A....

0.5C x 200Ah ≈ hmmmm....

I know of a few clients who's gonna be a bit upset tomorrow.

 

they take 0.75C of 150A

 

8 minutes ago, Induna said:

This shows how false advertising or incorrect data affect installers, customers and their pockets, and the battery manufacturer and distributor distance themselves from claims.

Nope - not gonna leave this alone:

Section 41 of the Consumer Protection Act, 2008.

Think I'll opt for the "product as marketed"....