Hi guys. I just want to share some recent 'budget' systems I've done. 

Two are 2kw and one is 3kw but all have 2.56kwh Lifepo4 storage. 

2 systems were installed close to the db boards in the garage. One was installed outside under shelter to avoid fan noise

These systems power all the lights in the house as well as some plug points for the usual TV wifi PC etc. They also power garage and gate motors

Very nicely done. Great to see these type of installs as well 

Is that 2KVA inverter a 12V or 24V unit?  I presume it is only an inverter and doesn't have a build-in charger.  So you charge the batteries with that 12V or 24V SMPS power supply?  Does that PSU have a settable current limit, or just a so-called over-current protection?  And the charge voltage?  These SMPSs have a voltage adjust preset pot, but they normally cannot be adjusted for a voltage high enough to charge a 12/24 volt battery.  Did you change one of the resistors to allow for a higher output voltage?

This sort of battery charger is not ideal, to say the least.  It's no good for lead acids and worse for Lithiums.  It's OK to use this to manually charge a battery once in a while, but not as a set-and-forget, automatic charger.  You really need a microprocessor controlled charger to properly take care of whatever battery you use.   Perhaps you added one of these little voltage window comparator PCBs that activate a relay to switch the SMPS on and off, but that is still far from ideal. 

It is a huge problem finding reasonable priced Lithium chargers.  A Victron 12V10A charger is about 2.5K.  When adding the cost of the inverter one has basically reached the price-point of an entry level Axpert.

Can you share the cost for these systems.

Modina these are 24v systems. On the system that has no solar (first Pic) I used a power supply and set it to 27.6V especially as the Securiprods are seen as lead acid drop in replacements. However, I do think they might not top balance because of that voltage. 

The system that has the Epever solar charge controller all the way on the left has Lifepo4 preset settings and goes all the way to 29.2V which I believe should then activate the cell balancing of the Securiprods' BMS. The power supply in this setup is for manual charging up to 27.6V on darker days

The MUST system has a built in Li charging algorithm and I've set bulk charge there also to around 29.2V charging an Esener battery

Beefy I did these for people I know and the costs have been from R24k (backup only) to R37k (Must/Esener setup) 

Thanks JPNiemand I appreciate that

Ps there are 24v battery balancers on the Securiprod installs to keep the individual battery voltages even

3 hours ago, MiG said:

Ps there are 24v battery balancers on the Securiprod installs to keep the individual battery voltages eve

@MiGwhat type of battery balancers are you using the reason i am asking i used Victron battery balancers but they don't work properly with some of the lifepo4 bms's as soon as inverter goes into islanding mode(when LS kicks in) the bms disconnect. It happened on 2x CFE 12v and 2x Linergy 12v batteries both connected in series supplying a PSS 24v 1600va ups.

 

Edited April 22, 20233 yr by TaliaB

4 hours ago, TaliaB said:

@MiGwhat type of battery balancers are you using the reason i am asking i used Victron battery balancers but they don't work properly with some of the lifepo4 bms's as soon as inverter goes into islanding mode(when LS kicks in) the bms disconnect. It happened on 2x CFE 12v and 2x Linergy 12v batteries both connected in series supplying a PSS 24v 1600va ups.

 

I was wondering how well you get the Victron to work. For me they are made for lead acid. Start of balance is too high and the rate of balance too low. 

The HA02 works very well. Good to see a balance current of over 1A between 2x12V Hubble S-100. 

It's HA-01 balancers I used and according to their little manual, as long as each battery is over 10V it'll do it's thing.. 

1 hour ago, MiG said:

It's HA-01 balancers I used and according to their little manual, as long as each battery is over 10V it'll do it's thing.. 

Interesting and of note that there are so many different HA01/02 units. Mine shows at much loer voltage and also up to 10A. I have not seen an over 1.2A balance on mine and this should be a function on battery out of balance and size. 

Edited April 23, 20233 yr by Scorp007

32 minutes ago, Scorp007 said:

Interesting and of note that there are so many different HA01/02 units. Mine shows at much loer voltage and also up to 10A. I have not seen an over 1.2A balance on mine and this should be a function on battery out of balance and size. 

How did you determine your balancing current?  Did you connect a multimeter in series?  If you do that, you should connect your meter in series with the common lead.  The meter will have a finite resistance that will add voltage drop and can effect the voltage difference the balancer sees.

Up to 10A?  That's crazy.  At least for a passive balancer that wastes the excess energy as heat.  My "gut" tells me one would want to balance with a smallish current (say <500mA) over a longer time (for typical inverter sized batteries). I am no expert on batteries but I think the battery chemistry needs some time to settle.  For instance, thermal deltas will not be the same throughout the structure.

35 minutes ago, Modina said:

How did you determine your balancing current?  Did you connect a multimeter in series?  If you do that, you should connect your meter in series with the common lead.  

Up to 10A?  That's crazy.  At least for a passive balancer that wastes the excess energy as heat.  My "gut" 

No you have to understand the balancer. It takes power from the high battery to the low battery. You can thus measure it at either of the 2 red leads with the ammeter in series. 

You be the judge if 10A is high. Bear in mind some systems might be charged at 120+A so 10A is not high. It is for this great feature why the normal *other* balancers are a waste if you are only balancing at 50mA.

This 10A being between batteries and not just a cell. 

I just clip my clamp meter without disconnecting any wires. They are a great aid for me as I run my routers from 1 of my 12V batteries while the inverter is switched off. I used to have to switch the routers between the batteries. Now no longer as its doing it's job. We know it's a waste to have the inverter on and throwing away 600Wh in 24hrs if you just need the WiFi on 24/7. That for a load that uses less than 300Wh in 24 hrs. 

 

Edited April 23, 20233 yr by Scorp007

13 minutes ago, Scorp007 said:

No you have to understand the balancer. It takes power from the high battery to the low battery.

I think that most balancers are of the passive type, meaning they have a transistor that switches a resistor into the circuit to bleed away the extra charge.  There are active battery balancers that actually transfer power in the way you mention.  I would suspect that active battery chargers would be quite complex due to the bi-directionality, and thus expensive.

8 minutes ago, Modina said:

I think that most balancers are of the passive type, meaning they have a transistor that switches a resistor into the circuit to bleed away the extra charge.  There are active battery balancers that actually transfer power in the way you mention.  I would suspect that active battery chargers would be quite complex due to the bi-directionality, and thus expensive.

No i would not rate R800 for a bi-directional gadget expensive. 

I'm not concerned on how it works as long as it does the job intended. 

I have recommended to many people to use a R80 volt meter to not discharge below 12V per lead acid battery. A small price to pay to save say 2 x 12V batteries that cost R5000. 

Even my 12V soldering station/camping light has a volt meter or battery protector on. This way lead acid can give great service for portable devices. 

Edited April 23, 20233 yr by Scorp007

I hate it if products come with these wishy-washy descriptions.  I searched quite a while for HA-01 balancers and although there are many sites and even a lot of youtube videos nobody explicitly says that the HA is an active balancer.  However, judging by the small size and the completely potted nature, it seems that this is indeed an active unit that transfers power as you indicated.

Unlike you, @Scorp007 I am very concerned with how things work, to the point of opening up the box BEFORE even plugging the thing in. 😃    Sometimes I see such a mess, that I refuse to even try using the product.  There is simply no limit as to how low some Chinese manufacturers can stoop.  Youtuber BigClive never fails to amaze me with his findings of dangerous, mains operated junk.  The price is NOT always a good indicator.  You get very expensive junk and sometimes you get surprising cheap gold nuggets.

2 minutes ago, Modina said:

I hate it if products come with these wishy-washy descriptions.  I searched quite a while for HA-01 balancers and although there are many sites and even a lot of youtube videos nobody explicitly says that the HA is an active balancer.  However, judging by the small size and the completely potted nature, it seems that this is indeed an active unit that transfers power as you indicated.

Unlike you, @Scorp007 I am very concerned with how things work, to the point of opening up the box BEFORE even plugging the thing in. 😃    Sometimes I see such a mess, that I refuse to even try using the product.  There is simply no limit as to how low some Chinese manufacturers can stoop.  Youtuber BigClive never fails to amaze me with his findings of dangerous, mains operated junk.  The price is NOT always a good indicator.  You get very expensive junk and sometimes you get surprising cheap gold nuggets.

Ja in Afrikaans we say "moenie krap waar dit nie jeuk nie" 😀😀😀😀

On 2023/04/22 at 5:10 PM, MiG said:

Modina these are 24v systems. On the system that has no solar (first Pic) I used a power supply and set it to 27.6V especially as the Securiprods are seen as lead acid drop in replacements. However, I do think they might not top balance because of that voltage. 

The system that has the Epever solar charge controller all the way on the left has Lifepo4 preset settings and goes all the way to 29.2V which I believe should then activate the cell balancing of the Securiprods' BMS. The power supply in this setup is for manual charging up to 27.6V on darker days

The MUST system has a built in Li charging algorithm and I've set bulk charge there also to around 29.2V charging an Esener battery

Beefy I did these for people I know and the costs have been from R24k (backup only) to R37k (Must/Esener setup) 

Thanks JPNiemand I appreciate that

Ps there are 24v battery balancers on the Securiprod installs to keep the individual battery voltages even

I have to ask. Isnt the 29.2v a little high for the esener battery? LI does not want to live there. 

Edited May 19, 20233 yr by Flouw

I believe the higher voltage is needed to activate the BMS cell balancing I don't think it pushes each cell to 29.2/8

Esener manual:

I've added the float (27.6) and bulk/boost (29.2) voltages in the MUST inverter manual:

In my case I set the bulk to 29.1 though which hopefully does activate the cell balancing

Here are the default LifePO4 settings of the Epever charge controller. In this case we look at the settings under LFP8S for 25.6V nominal battery

I have a document from esener stating bulk should be at 28.4v float at 27.2v. 

According to them cut off was at 29.2v. 

 

Ive also mailed them and phoned them to ask at what voltage does the BMS start balancing. But they could not tell me. 

He just kept saying the BMS is always balancing. So im still in the dark.