Or may be you can use a high voltage batttery with the GTI and this: 

http://www.voltronicpower.com/oCart2/index.php?route=product/product&path=24&product_id=140

I found this deal: https://www.gwstore.co.za/product/rct-infinisolar-10kw-3ph-hybrid-on-grid-inverter/

@soic what everyone said above is spot on.

Me, having started with a 200w panel, then 400, then 1.3kw off grid then grid tied, now 2.1kw grid tied, I can tell you one thing, the devil is in the details. 

Details like evening consumption, average daily load (they cost the most in Eskom donations), peak loads (they cost the most in inverter price)... that grid tied is the quickest way of saving money from day one. Even a small grid tied inverter can make a huge impact.

You said you have R150k to spend. How about you see if you can fit your system into that budget, carefully and with data?
Because my and a few others experiences dictates that no matter what you buy, you are going to change it in the not so distant future. As you get the hang of it, learn more, lifestyle changes, you grow, you mature and so does your needs and your requirements and therefor the system.

Going grid tied will generate THE biggest saving from day one for once you have used the grid tied system for a while, you will see interesting patterns in the data you now have harvested from your system, which will make lifestyle changes happen, and you can make a call on what is THE best next move.

Like if you see evening loads are the highest, the battery bank way too expensive, then go batteries + generator and you know that you need a Victron Quatro, as they can auto start a gennie if the bank gets too low.

And by using a gennie to power the load AND recharging the batteries, you get every ounce of energy out of each liter of diesel.
And you are not going to buy a cheap gennie at the local Makro store, no, just don't.

Buy panels in pallets, it is cheaper. :-) 

 

Consider these two options: The goal is to reduce the electricity bill, and secondly to cater for Eskom failures, correct?

Option One: Phase One: This option is a hybrid, so Eskom is sorted from day one.
Go grid tied with a MultiplusII 48v 3kva with a huge MPPT controller - add the max safe panels on the controller, with a Polyontech battery bank.
Get a read and feel of your data, change what you need to change, then decided if you need more.
For Victron is plug and play and pretty much 100% expandable.

Phase Two: 
Once you see what is going on, you need more, simply duplicate the system installed in Phase One.
You can add up to 6 of them in parallel, or not.

 

Option Two: Phase one: Get a Fronius grid tied inverter with an array that meets the first phase.
Get the data, understand what you see.

Phase Two: Eskom failures. The Fronius works like a glove with Victron inverters. 
Based on your newfound knowledge with the data you got from the Fronius, you can now decided how big a battery bank you need, or a smaller bank and a generator. This option, if you go batteries and generator, a Quatro is the answer.

 

You can obviously go any other route, Goodwe, Solis, Infini ... the choices are near endless ... but at the end of the day, you need to make three calls:
1) Are you going to follow CoCT regulations, or wing it best you can - I assume you are not in CoCT, not in Gauteng and not being supplied by Eskom direct? (See *** below)
2) How DIY inclined are you or are you plug and play it must just work?
3) Can the R150k cover the above proposals? If so, then if I was in your shoes, I would go either of the above routes, Option One the cheapest, easiest and simplest way to go Hybrid, by using Victron's ESS to manage the entire show, with a Carlo to give you exact data in your daily consumption.

Option Two is if you need a LOT of batteries and a generator becomes a must.

Hope the above added some value!?

 

*** - You don't want to spend more money later unless you chose to.
CoCT is forcing us to conform, it is good, so it is not a problem.
Gauteng is not favoring grid tied. Pilotfish has delved into that.
Eskom has a whole new set of rules to be grid tied to them - they may never catch you as they have other worries.
 

2 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

@soic what everyone said above is spot on.

Me, having started with a 200w panel, then 400, then 1.3kw off grid then grid tied, now 2.1kw grid tied, I can tell you one thing, the devil is in the details. 

Details like evening consumption, average daily load (they cost the most in Eskom donations), peak loads (they cost the most in inverter price)... that grid tied is the quickest way of saving money from day one. Even a small grid tied ...........................
 

Wow, thank you so much for the thorough rundown and real life experience.

I am a tinkerer by nature, but i do have a certified electrician that will be overlooking the installation. Just to make sure the world is safe, and our family is safe, so I'll be doing the installation myself with a pair of eyes over my shoulder, this is the only way i will learn and fully understand what i am doing, in case i need to tinker with it later on.

I'm now considering this:

Inverter: Infinisolar 10kW 3Ph Hybrid On-Grid Inverter - Yes, it is a bit more pricey than one MultiplusII, but, it is already giving me 3.3kW over each of my 3 phases. It does limit me to 10kW at the end, but i am sure one MUST be able to live with 10kWh

For Batteries i am considering BYD 10Kwh Lithium Ion 48V Battery Bank, but only because it is around 10k cheaper than the pylontech 9.6kW alternative.

With the above setup i can get the following: 

     1 Pallet 72 Cell 330w PV Modules (256 modules on the pallet) @ R 48,334.00 incl VAT
     Infinisolar 10kW 3Ph Hybrid On-Grid Inverter @ R 41,743.00 incl VAT
     BYD 10Kwh Lithium Ion 48V Battery Bank @ R51,635.00 incl VAT

This comes to a total of: R141,712.00 leaving me 8K for a few bibs and bobs.

What do you think? 

MY biggest concern with the infinisolor inverter, is the max input which is 14.5kW ... this basically means i cant get a solar array bigger than that and i am also not sure if i can string these together either.

 

oh, and yeah ... me... living in a regulated area ..... NEVER 😜

 

Edited December 7, 20187 yr by soic

I don't really get it. Why take the Infini 10kva (given that there's been the odd negative experience with them), at +- 3kva per phase, instead of 3 x Multiplus-II at 3kva per phase which is going to work out in the same ballpark?

Infinisolar 10kva is around 55k.

3 x Multiplus-II is 38k... so you can throw in an MPPT and a Venus-GX and have a little bit of change left...

(sure, the Infini has two MPPTS... so its not fully apples for apples... just wondering).

 

6 hours ago, soic said:

What do you think? 

I am not an Infini nor a Axpert fan at all so I am the last person you must ask ... or the first person why not to buy them - but not here on this forum. :-)

Going one BIG inverter, and as Plonkster points out there has been some feedback on them, is all your eggs in one basket with a large load to boot.

Me, I like it a lot that one can mix and match, T&C's apply, separate equipment like for the sake of debate, Victron equipment, which also has a redundancy factor when things break, for things do break and when they break, at a time when you least need them to break, you want a local supplier to fix it quickly, under the 5 year warranty, or extended warranty you bought.

Me, I would have seriously considered a Multiplus II per phase, (+-45k) with 1 or more MPPT's (+-R12k per MPPT - with the right model you can get like 5kw+ per controller) with 1 x Carlo Gavazz (+-1-3k) with 1 x VenusGX (+-4.2k) and use  ESS to manage it all ... IF the 3 phase knowledgeable guys like i.e. Plonkster and others agree the above will work.

For Victron's ESS is a market leader ito solar management software for it cleverly uses the panels, batteries and Eskom in such a manner that you get the best bang for your bucks spent.

You don't want to overtax your batteries ever, but you also want to use them when the time is right, ESS does that for you, with easy to set settings for example now, when there are no power failures use X% of the batteries each and every day giving you the best ROI from them and when Eskom misbehaves, with the click of a mouse button, you keep the batteries fully charged, ready for the failures.

Solar can be a awesome experience, or a horrendous one when you have the system and discover what you though and what you bought, the twain cannot meet.

THE most important factors to ponder on, when things go wrong are:
1) Warranty and easy of under warranty repairs.
2) Support when things go sideways.
3) Easy of Outside Warranty repairs - me, I have blown each and every part of a solar system at one time or another - even melted panel diodes.

So make sure you have the backing. Solar is NOT cheap.
 

Edited December 7, 20187 yr by Guest
Refined some of the text

1 hour ago, plonkster said:

I don't really get it. Why take the Infini 10kva (given that there's been the odd negative experience with them), at +- 3kva per phase, instead of 3 x Multiplus-II at 3kva per phase which is going to work out in the same ballpark?

Infinisolar 10kva is around 55k.

3 x Multiplus-II is 38k... so you can throw in an MPPT and a Venus-GX and have a little bit of change left...

(sure, the Infini has two MPPTS... so its not fully apples for apples... just wondering).

 

I think you have me convinced.

I have looked around the forum for reviews on the items i have, but did not find that much.

I think i'll be going with the Multiplus II's and i'll still need to check how many MPPT's i can get away with.

Lemme draw up a new list and get back to y'all

15 hours ago, Javi Martínez said:

high voltage batttery

what are the advantages and disadvantages of high voltage batteries? Are they available here in South Africa? Are they safe? I am already scared working with the 500V from my pv panels 😨.

44 minutes ago, soic said:

I think i'll be going with the Multiplus II's and i'll still need to check how many MPPT's i can get away with.

Just one final thing to note... for the sake of honesty, when running grid-parallel the Multi might not always push the full 3kva, it has to manage heat as well. 3KVA is what it can do off-grid for about an hour before the temperature rises too much (it depends on ambient too... at -10°C it can pretty much go indefinitely). It can easily do 80% though.

I don't know the Infini that well, but I am pretty sure the 10kva is also a peak value.

You will get different responses as people have different experiences.

It’s like asking a car forum which car is the best, or the 4x4 community which 4x4 to buy even cellphone brands will stir up emotions.

I have been burnt badly with Victron which in my opinion is way overpriced for what you actually get. If you have the money to blow be my guest, they have good equipment but also not the be all. Ill never buy a R30k Iphone X when a R2.4 k Xiaomi does what I need, but the next guy will feel that its Apple or nothing.

Voltronic (Axpert , Infinisolar) offer an excellent value proportion and I have installed a few for friends and family and they have all been running for the last 4 years without a single problem.

My new favourite  is Goodwe, and Pylontec batteries.

From what I can see you don’t require a 3 phase system and the fact that you currently do have 3 phase  could complicate matters and add unnecessary  expenses to your system in the future.

For 13 kW or less single phase is the way to go.

Just my useless 5c on the geysers.

If you have access to Eskom you will not be saving money by installing gas geysers.

Gas geysers works well in remote locations or as a backup.

 

Also electrical geysers  can be used to dump excess solar energy into during the day

 

27 minutes ago, Jaws said:

Just my useless 5c on the geysers.

If you have access to Eskom you will not be saving money by installing gas geysers.

Gas geysers works well in remote locations or as a backup.

 

Also electrical geysers  can be used to dump excess solar energy into during the day

 

Hi There,

I have actually decided to just replace my 3kW heating lement in my geyser with a 1.5kW element, it might be under powered and run longer, but it frees up some kW's during the ay.

45 minutes ago, Jaws said:

I have been burnt badly with Victron ...

Please share? We are not aware of any problem. And I am asking because we have come across people that has been dealt the wrong hand, one of them Plonkster arranged to have sorted sorted quite nicely, the repairs where cheaper than the courier fees, yet the client was told to buy yet another Quatro. His dealer was the problem.

And if there are flaws, I like to know about it sooner rather than later, as the kit is not cheap, but the back-end support is quite good, if one uses the right dealer.

Edited December 7, 20187 yr by Guest

12 minutes ago, soic said:

I have actually decided to just replace my 3kW heating lement in my geyser with a 1.5kW element, it might be under powered and run longer, but it frees up some kW's during the ay.

I would consider that if you go grid tied, to add more panels or like when you see the power usage is lowest between X-Y times, let the geyser go on then.

Going off-grid, then that is a whole new ballgame.

Edited December 7, 20187 yr by Guest

1 hour ago, Fuenkli said:

what are the advantages and disadvantages of high voltage batteries? Are they available here in South Africa? Are they safe? I am already scared working with the 500V from my pv panels 😨.

Well, the most complex task in solar system is the boost stage. Inverters usually transform 48 Vdc to 400 Vdc. If solar panels and batteries work round 350-400 Vdc, stage booster is not needed. 

In my opinion, the most efficient system nowadays is "AC copupling" combined High Voltage Lithium battery.

For example, only is an example, an Ingeteam inverter can be used whith a FREEDOM WON Lite HV. 

 

https://www.ingeconsuntraining.info/?page_id=15937

I´m sure @plonkster knows if Victron is prepairing something similar 😉

1 minute ago, Javi Martínez said:

 knows if Victron is prepairing something similar 😉

No High voltage plans :-)

On 2018/12/07 at 2:03 AM, soic said:

This comes to a total of: R141,712.00 leaving me 8K for a few bibs and bobs.

 

R8k for a few bibs and bobs is far to little...

a 600V protection box with isolators could cost you over R7k and then what about all the brackets and roof hooks, etc just for the panels.

On 2018/12/07 at 11:37 AM, The Terrible Triplett said:

We are not aware of any problem.

Yeah, sometimes the ball is dropped. Happens everywhere. But also sometimes... what the customer tells you and what happened are two different things too. Don't know the details, but I remember a similar incident on social media recently, only to find that support was offered but refused... (client still went and complained to all and sundry over his bad treatment).

:-)

On 2018/12/06 at 6:28 PM, plonkster said:

You can make up your own hybrid setup. Install a grid-tied unit, and then install a small UPS-type thing for the essential loads.

Any recommendations for the "UPS-type thing for essential loads"

46 minutes ago, Antony said:

Any recommendations for the "UPS-type thing for essential loads"

I get that question like every second day now. Because Load Shedding. And of course the answer must be a small Multiplus, but the SARS payback check was spent in August already for most people :-)

On ‎2018‎/‎12‎/‎07 at 11:37 AM, The Terrible Triplett said:

Please share? We are not aware of any problem. And I am asking because we have come across people that has been dealt the wrong hand, one of them Plonkster arranged to have sorted sorted quite nicely, the repairs where cheaper than the courier fees, yet the client was told to buy yet another Quatro. His dealer was the problem.

And if there are flaws, I like to know about it sooner rather than later, as the kit is not cheap, but the back-end support is quite good, if one uses the right dealer.

Hi TTT

Like I said the Victron kit is very good, and its what I recommended to a contact in Mozambique about 9 years ago in a very remote location.  The equipment was purchased and installed badly by themselfs  leading to lots of issues.

I send them an Axpert, which worked for them as everything just connected to one box (solar panels, batteries and output) whereas with the Victron equipment there was a seperate MPPT, Inverter and battery charger. 

Am I saying the Axpert is better than the Victron , no not at all.  But at 1/3 the price of the Victron kit the Axpert didnt do halve bad either.

 

 

2 hours ago, plonkster said:

I get that question like every second day now. Because Load Shedding. And of course the answer must be a small Multiplus, but the SARS payback check was spent in August already for most people :-)

Interesting how would that compare to something like this :

 https://www.builders.co.za/Electrical/Inverters-%26-Solar-Energy/Inverters/Ellies-Power-Inverter-DC-1200w-2000va-24v/p/000000000000395576?gclid=Cj0KCQiAurjgBRCqARIsAD09sg8WCUdL6xGUI7G16kGBjjOmoNQIBROXaxFVjoLrRNDzB6FbOhURlYwaAlytEALw_wcB

 

R6500 for 1200w/2000kva modified sine inverter which is perfect for keeping the WIFI router, TV and a light or two on.

Edited December 10, 20187 yr by Jaws