Advice Needed on Axpert Hybrid Solar Inverter setup.

[Jaco Venter]

3 hours ago, Coulomb said:

I've not thought about the King very much, other than to note it as a possible future purchase. Your question prompted me to look at it a bit more closely.

I see that it still has a bypass mode, so if the load exceeds what the inverter can handle, it can still use a relay to supply the loads from AC-in. (I've corrected an earlier post where I thought it could not do that.)

Line mode seems to supply the loads from AC-in via the battery. In fact, the only difference between line and battery mode seems to be that the AC charger is active, and it can be active while the inverter is supplying the load partly from the battery and/or solar. So yes, that's an advantage: when the battery gets low, the AC charger can kick in, without the inverter having to turn off and turn into a charger.

It seems a good design. at least at first glance. It seems to be about the same price as the Axpert MKS.

But of course, there is no patched firmware at present. They have at least made a start: according to the manual the "r" is now rendered properly   But I fear that the premature float bugs will still be there.

[ Edit: I meant to add that Voltronic Power don't call the King a "hybrid" inverter; it's classed along with all the other Axpert models as "off-grid". It still doesn't have the ability to push power into the grid; if it did, it would need a world of approvals that would push the price up. Though I note that some of the clones manage this.

I note that line mode on the King comes close to achieving much the same thing: as long as the load doesn't exceed what the inverter can supply, you can blend solar, battery, and AC-in power to supply the load. ]

 

[Jaco Venter]

Thanks for the reply, so what it mean is that your load is restricted to the output of the Inverter? So all power is going thru the inverter and the grid does not pass the inverter should the load exceed the inverter max.

[Coulomb]

1 hour ago, Jaco Venter said:

what it mean is that your load is restricted to the output of the Inverter?

I mustn't have made myself clear. That's what I used to think, but I was wrong. There is a bypass mode, so you won't be restricted to the power of the inverter.

There are two more bypass / ECO modes. I think ECO is the equivalent of power save mode somehow; the whole machine will waste less power if the inverter isn't running.

[Jaco Venter]

Thanks for the info.

Only negative issue I still see is that the King Inverter need to be connected to Batteries to be able to work. Not a bad idea but a bit of an issue if you want to start a Solar system without batteries, to fit to a restricted budget.

 

[GVC]

I have purchased 2 x Leoch 4.8kw lithium ion batteries after one of my "US 145 XC2" gave up the ghost last week.

I have disconnected the BMV 702 and battery equalizer and now I need to know if the Leoch,s BMS is capable on its own to prevent the Axperts famous charging problems?

The supplier reckons he has sold plenty to Axpert owners with no problems reported.

Will appreciate it if anybody has any experience on the above setup.

[Coulomb]

5 hours ago, GVC said:

I need to know if the Leoch,s BMS is capable on its own to prevent the Axperts famous charging problems?

No. The BMS will look after the battery. The Axpert won't talk to the Leoch at all, so it's just another battery as far as the Axpert is concerned.

5 hours ago, GVC said:

The supplier reckons he has sold plenty to Axpert owners with no problems reported.

I'm still mystified by that. I suspect that a lot of people have chronically under-charged batteries, and don't realise it.

Or maybe many Axpert users have low maximum charge current settings (because they are using a lead-acid battery, or perhaps a small lithium ion battery), and the premature float bug doesn't happen as often (so you need a darker cloud, which happens less frequently, to trigger it).

[GVC]

1 hour ago, Coulomb said:

No. The BMS will look after the battery. The Axpert won't talk to the Leoch at all, so it's just another battery as far as the Axpert is concerned.

 

 

Thanks Coulomb.

I have Webbers and your LC1_73.00c firmware installed. Will this suffice or do I need to get hold of the Leoch SOC protocol and integrate it into my software?

[Coulomb]

1 hour ago, GVC said:

Will this suffice

Oh, yes, that's the original reason for the patched firmware, to fix the premature float bugs. You could also update to LC1_73.00e and enjoy KettleKomp (TM).

[Renier82]

@Coulomb, i see that you are a rockstar. although ive been running a axpert for a few years, i have only updated my firmware once. I have noticed mentioning on a lot of posts of using custom firmware in order to curb float issues. however im clueless at this point. how can i keep up to date with these firmwares, which one(s) to use (i assume theres different firmware for different model axperts and different setups) and what does KettleKomp do?

[Pieter de Bruin]

Coulomb,

If I may ak a follow up question on charging. With s inverters in parallel and 4 batteries, is the inverter then set to max 20A or 80A (20A/battery)?

[Coulomb]

With 4 batteries in parallel, and each has a current limit of 20 A, that's 80 A total. If you have 2 inverters in parallel, you could set them to 40 A each, or one to 30 and the other to 50 A (perhaps one has more panels than the other, or one has bad shading). If you had three inverters, you could set them to say 30, 30, and 20 A. Or 40 and 40 A, and not connect panels to the third inverter at all. 

[Gys]

 

Can you please help to connect 2 of these batterys as it is showing only one. No manual for these leoch 4.8kw lithium ion batteries?

[Coulomb]

7 hours ago, Gys said:

Can you please help to connect 2 of these batterys as it is showing only one.

Do you mean in ICC? My understanding is that Leoch support is not yet complete for ICC, but I could well be wrong.

As long as the two batteries are paralleled (with the heavy cables), then you are at least getting the capacity of the two batteries.

Quote

No manual for these leoch 4.8kw lithium ion batteries?

The web site seems really bad, and I could not find a manual. All I found was this one-page brochure. (And this slightly different version.)

[Barry]

I have a similar set up with an Axpert 5kVA and 2 x Leoch Li-ion 48V batteries in parallel. My problem is that I can't get the system to charge the batteries at anything more than 26A. So in the day with small loads when I want my PV to charge the batteries the inverter stops charging when it reaches 26A from solar. I have 3kWp solar. After stopping the charge the inverter then starts charging agin until it reaches 26A again when it cuts out. I have tried all kinds of settings but without any luck. Please help.

[Bos]

https://powerforum.co.za/topic/2837-advice-needed-on-axpert-hybrid-solar-inverter-setup/#comment-44734

[Dex_]

On 2019/04/04 at 2:55 AM, Coulomb said:

No. The BMS will look after the battery. The Axpert won't talk to the Leoch at all, so it's just another battery as far as the Axpert is concerned.

I'm still mystified by that. I suspect that a lot of people have chronically under-charged batteries, and don't realise it.

Or maybe many Axpert users have low maximum charge current settings (because they are using a lead-acid battery, or perhaps a small lithium ion battery), and the premature float bug doesn't happen as often (so you need a darker cloud, which happens less frequently, to trigger it).

Sorry Coulomb, I just wanted to ask something on this... i have an axpert king, and a pylontech. the future plan is to possibly expand the system and add an ICC, but for now is there any other way to know if i am chronically under-charged? the SOC lights on the battery itself seem to indicate that the battery is always generally full? and other advice appreciated. (note i don't think anything is wrong per say - i would rather just be sure)

Edited September 8, 2019 by Dex_

[Bos]

Hi, also new here!

I also have Axpert 5kva inverter and recently got a Leoch 4,800w Lion battery. 

I read in this topic that I should reduce my max charging volts to 52V?

I am situated very remote and depend on the sun to run my setup. Sometimes however, I need to start up a 5kva Honda generator to top up my previous lead acid batteries however, I must have fiddled with my settings too much and now the inverter does not want to 'channel' the mains power from the generator to the batteries. It used to work perfectly...... Tried many times changing settings but guess I am missing something? I guess the time will come where I will need to boost my new Leoch battery as well with the generator? I currently have 9 x 275w panels - 3 strings x 3

Please advise me on how to program and set up my Axpert inverter for my spesific situation.

Many thanks,

Bos

[Dex_]

32 minutes ago, Bos said:

Hi, also new here!

I also have Axpert 5kva inverter and recently got a Leoch 4,800w Lion battery. 

I read in this topic that I should reduce my max charging volts to 52V?

I am situated very remote and depend on the sun to run my setup. Sometimes however, I need to start up a 5kva Honda generator to top up my previous lead acid batteries however, I must have fiddled with my settings too much and now the inverter does not want to 'channel' the mains power from the generator to the batteries. It used to work perfectly...... Tried many times changing settings but guess I am missing something? I guess the time will come where I will need to boost my new Leoch battery as well with the generator? I currently have 9 x 275w panels - 3 strings x 3

Please advise me on how to program and set up my Axpert inverter for my spesific situation.

Many thanks,

Bos

what are your current settings?

 

i have heard that the inverters dont always like the noisy power of the generators to charge, one trick it to apparently load the generator with a small power source ~300W and then pulg it in to feed the inverter

[Coulomb]

On 2019/09/08 at 6:09 PM, Dex_ said:

is there any other way to know if i am chronically under-charged? the SOC lights on the battery itself seem to indicate that the battery is always generally full?

The BMS should know the proper state of charge, so that's a quite good sign.

However, the BMS relies on a regular full charge to synchronise its coulomb counter with what the battery is actually doing. If it's clever, it will also adjust the SOC when the battery is very full or very empty; at these points, rested voltage is a reasonable guide to SOC, and it can judge "restedness" because it measure the current to/from the battery.

But most of the time, you want to keep away from the battery being very empty So that doesn't help much. So it relies on the battery either becoming full (a certain battery voltage attained with less than a certain charge current to keep it there), or alternatively having the battery rested at almost full. Both of these could be rare events with the Axpert charge bugs. This will allow the BMS's estimate of the SOC to drift away from the true value, so it could be saying full or nearly full when in fact it's getting further and further from full.

Can the battery tell you its estimated SOC as a percentage value? Then you at least have a high resolution (1% or perhaps 0.1%) reading. Perhaps there is  PC or phone app for this. If you only have 4-6 LEDs, you only know the SOC within about ±12.5% or ±8%, depending on how many LEDs.

To be sure that the BMS is synchronising, you should see a step change once per day (on poor solar days it might not happen), where the SOC is suddenly changed by a few percent, either upwards or downwards depending on many factors. You might be able to notice this from the front panel of the battery, if you get a decimal percentage there.

Otherwise, you could just watch the battery voltage and charge current, from a monitoring program or just from the LC Display of your inverter. Every day before the battery reaches the float stage (i.e. before the charge LED goes solid green), you should see the battery voltage hovering around the voltage from setting 26 (bulk/absorb/CV voltage), and the current should gradually reduce to a low level (for unpatched firmware, this will basically be setting 02, maximum charge current, divided by 5), and only then should the battery voltage drop to then hover around the float voltage (setting 27, float voltage).

The current practice (which I don't particularly agree with) is to have the float voltage setting almost (sometimes exactly) the same as the bulk/absorb setting. That means that even with the charge bugs, the battery will still charge fairly well (it might take a little longer) even after the inverter-charger has gone (possibly prematurely) to the float stage. So for boxed LFP batteries, this is much less of a concern than it is for lead acid batteries, which have to have quite different voltages for these two settings.

 

On 2019/09/08 at 6:20 PM, Bos said:

I need to start up a 5kva Honda generator to top up my previous lead acid batteries however, I must have fiddled with my settings too much and now the inverter does not want to 'channel' the mains power from the generator to the batteries.

It may not be your settings. The Axperts are quite picky about generator waveform quality. The reason seems to be to do with synchronising the inverter with the AC input, for smoother changeovers. It's possible that your generator needs a tune up or adjustment of some sort to make its output acceptable to the Axpert. There may be a screwdriver adjustment for governor speed, for example. As Dex_ mentioned, it might help to temporarily put a load on the generator before connecting it to the Axpert.

Edit: the most relevant setting for generators is setting 03 (AC input voltage range). This should be set to APL unless you have a very high quality generator.

[Bos]

On 2019/09/08 at 6:53 PM, Dex_ said:

what are your current settings?

 

i have heard that the inverters dont always like the noisy power of the generators to charge, one trick it to apparently load the generator with a small power source ~300W and then pulg it in to feed the inverter

Hi Dex,

Current settings - have not connected the Leoch yet.....

1. SOL     2. 60A    3. UPS    4. SdS

5. AGn    6. LtE     7. tfE    9. 50Hz

11. 30A   12.  46V   13. 64V    16. CSO

18. boF    19. tEP   20. LON   22. ADF

23. ByE    25. FdS   26.  56.4V  27. 54V

28. SIC    29. 42V   30. ONE   31. SbE

32.  AUT   38. diS

Please advise settings for my new battery.

Thanks so much

[Dex_]

5 should be USE
2 seems way too high
13 seems way too high

12, 26, 27 and 29 seem at least closer to what i would expect.

What does the manufacturer recommend?

 

EDIT: i see you say it isn't connected yet. my bad.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Dex_

[Bos]

Hi Dex,

Manufacturer specs attached. Please advise at which numbers of settings should I set the voltages on the 5KVA Apert inverter accordingly. Not very clued up as this is very new to me!

Equalized charging voltage - 52,5 - 54V

Floating charging voltage - 51 - 51,75V

Max discharge current - 100A

Max charge current - 100A (standalone mode) What does this mean? My current charge setting is on 40A. I only use one battery.

Thanks so much...

[Dex_]

1 hour ago, Bos said:

Hi Dex,

Manufacturer specs attached. Please advise at which numbers of settings should I set the voltages on the 5KVA Apert inverter accordingly. Not very clued up as this is very new to me!

Equalized charging voltage - 52,5 - 54V

Floating charging voltage - 51 - 51,75V

Max discharge current - 100A

Max charge current - 100A (standalone mode) What does this mean? My current charge setting is on 40A. I only use one battery.

Thanks so much...

from my limited technical perspective i would say you should have:

02 (max charge current) - 40 (40 should be fine)
05 (battery type) - USE
12 (voltage point back to utility) - 48
13 (voltage point back to battery) - 51
26 (bulk charge voltage) - 52.5
27 (float charge voltage) - 51.75
29 (low dc cut off voltage)- 47.5

depending on how you use the system you might get low battery alarms, you might need to play around especially with the discharge settings (12/29)

 

note this is just based on what you told me from the manufacturer and my system

[Coulomb]

4 hours ago, Dex_ said:

12 (voltage point back to utility) - 48
...

29 (low dc cut off voltage)- 47.5

You should always have setting 29 at least 2.0 V lower than setting 12 (for factory firmware; for patched LFP flavour firmware, it can be 0.5 V as above). Otherwise, the effective back-to-utility voltage will be (cutoff voltage) + 2.0 V (or (cutoff voltage) + 0.5 V for patched LFP firmware). There is no patched firmware for the Axpert King at present.

[Dex_]

19 minutes ago, Coulomb said:

You should always have setting 29 at least 2.0 V lower than setting 12 (for factory firmware; for patched LFP flavour firmware, it can be 0.5 V as above). Otherwise, the effective back-to-utility voltage will be (cutoff voltage) + 2.0 V (or (cutoff voltage) + 0.5 V for patched LFP firmware). There is no patched firmware for the Axpert King at present.

that is good to know, i was working that setting based on manufacturer recommendations.