Farm Geluk Installation

[PaulF007]

Finally the setup is sort of Presentable. I still have a couple of things to sort out but every thing is running well so far and no smoke coming out anywhere. With a bit of luck we will be moving in next week so then we will only be able to put the system through its paces.

 

Thank you @The Terrible Triplett and @edmundp for all the time spend and guidance given with this in stall!!

FYI 

http://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?id=52153&sid=47409 

Just for fun

 

[Guest]

The batteries that you use can you provide some info ?

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[PaulF007]

@Manie it is 8 x Narada 6-GFM-170F I was told that they are good quality and also got them for a good price.

 

[Guest]

Thanks Paul. Appreciate it.

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[Mark]

Looks good@PaulF007. Please add your system to the Southern African Team on PVOUTPUT. Will be great to have your membership.

Regards

Mark

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[Mark]

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpowerforum%2Eco%2Eza%2Findex%2Ephp%3F%2Ftopic%2F423-PV-Output-Team---Southern-Africa%23entry4704&share_tid=423&share_fid=1029208&share_type=t&share_pid=4704

PV Output Team - Southern Africa

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[PaulF007]

@Mark Thank you for the linked , I have joined under "Farm Geluk Machado"

Paul

[Mark]

Excellent

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[Guest]

Paul, I need to use this opportunity, been waiting patiently for it. 

Nou wat nou @viper_za, no 24v Victron 200ah battery bank ... but a 48v one with a Axpert and TTT in the same sentence. Can you believe that!?

 

[Guest]

Yes the Naradas are "training" batteries for Paul understood fully that you first learn with cheaper batteries and then once you have your load and expectations pegged, then you buy what you need to save on using a gennie.

Or maybe he does get it right to get Eskom. Then the Narada's will work perfectly as backup. 

Eskom is cheaper than batts. And batts are cheaper than a gennie.

[PaulF007]

8 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Yes the Naradas are "training" batteries for Paul understood fully that you first learn with cheaper batteries and then once you have your load and expectations pegged, then you buy what you need to save on using a gennie.

Or maybe he does get it right to get Eskom. Then the Narada's will work perfectly as backup. 

Eskom is cheaper than batts. And batts are cheaper than a gennie.

With out a doubt - I will take Eskom for "Batts" any time over proper batts. Still hoping I can get Eskom sorted else off grid it is form me...  

[___]

Sometimes I think "trainer batteries" is just an excuse for buying the wrong stuff. Only sometimes, mind you, but still. It's perfectly possible to buy the expensive bank first and just follow the damn manual...

Cheap bats do have a use case though. Mine. I deliberately went with cheap batteries the first time round and spent my money on better equipment. I knew beforehand that I would be buying many batteries in my life... but likely just one or two inverters/charge controllers, possibly with many years and some overlap between them. In other words, I didn't buy training batteries. I bought cheap batteries for a completely different reason: Being poor!

[SilverNodashi]

55 minutes ago, plonkster said:

Sometimes I think "trainer batteries" is just an excuse for buying the wrong stuff. Only sometimes, mind you, but still. It's perfectly possible to buy the expensive bank first and just follow the damn manual...

Cheap bats do have a use case though. Mine. I deliberately went with cheap batteries the first time round and spent my money on better equipment. I knew beforehand that I would be buying many batteries in my life... but likely just one or two inverters/charge controllers, possibly with many years and some overlap between them. In other words, I didn't buy training batteries. I bought cheap batteries for a completely different reason: Being poor!

I'm trying to convince a client, who wants to setup a 75Kw solar farm, not to buy "training batteries" as you call them. But now that I think about it, it may possibly not be a bad idea since it will cheaper on the whole setup and give them 2-3 years to save up for the right stuff later

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, SilverNodashi said:

I'm trying to convince a client, who wants to setup a 75Kw solar farm, not to buy "training batteries" as you call them. But now that I think about it, it may possibly not be a bad idea since it will cheaper on the whole setup and give them 2-3 years to save up for the right stuff later

YES!!! Learn with cheap batteries by seeing how long you can make them work for you. Takes about 12-18 months.

Then you buy either a proper small bank, or a larger one. The facts will then be the guide.

Why so long? You need to have a winter experience in the exercise.

It also takes time to find loads that "wastes" battery power like Paul found with his camera's.

And making plans like he did, or to heat geysers with solar panels when there is spare, and all the other clever plans here on PF, can save you a ton on Eskom / batteries / gennie.

The joke is, once you have reduced the house to the lowest possible convenient level at night, using all the power daytime, automated where you can, you may just sit back one day and say wait, it is cheaper to run off Eskom than batteries, and then you reduce the bank even further to power just those circuits you need on 24/7 or selected devices just for load shedding.

But to get tot that level, you have to start somewhere, get cheap batts and learn, reduce and get clever.

[PaulF007]

I must have made 100 different calculations and @ R 2.70 per KWh on "proper batts" and then you need to keep the following in mind , 

1. You are paying upfront for the batts and will need to start the depreciation on your batts now else how will you finance the next lot?
2. This , for all practical reasons , double's your KWh to R 5.40 - Yes I know on the next run you will then run cheaper but that will be 25 - 20 years from now ....
3. If you got the "real thing" it will / should last you about 10 years so now you need to calculate the risk involved (Batts gets hot , maybe a very HIGH DoD from time to time, a bad cell , missed water levels exctr.) as well - lets add 30% just for in case
4. This put you at R 5.75 per KWh 
5. Add inflation to this and hands down Eskom just makes more sense for your bulk needs and a small bank for the times that load shed is around.

Any way , my 5c worth ( This obviously excludes the okes that does not have Eskom to start off with) 

[SilverNodashi]

20 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

YES!!! Learn with cheap batteries by seeing how long you can make them work for you. Takes about 12-18 months.

Then you buy either a proper small bank, or a larger one. The facts will then be the guide.

Why so long? You need to have a winter experience in the exercise.

It also takes time to find loads that "wastes" battery power like Paul found with his camera's.

And making plans like he did, or to heat geysers with solar panels when there is spare, and all the other clever plans here on PF, can save you a ton on Eskom / batteries / gennie.

The joke is, once you have reduced the house to the lowest possible convenient level at night, using all the power daytime, automated where you can, you may just sit back one day and say wait, it is cheaper to run off Eskom than batteries, and then you reduce the bank even further to power just those circuits you need on 24/7 or selected devices just for load shedding.

But to get tot that level, you have to start somewhere, get cheap batts and learn, reduce and get clever.

haha, did you see what I said? 75Kw! That's a big, expensive installation. I don't think they'll have enough room for cheap lead acid batteries. we're looking at using 2V/4700Ah batteries

[SilverNodashi]

1 minute ago, PaulF007 said:

I must have made 100 different calculations and @ R 2.70 per KWh on "proper batts" and then you need to keep the following in mind , 

1. You are paying upfront for the batts and will need to start the depreciation on your batts now else how will you finance the next lot?
2. This , for all practical reasons , double's your KWh to R 5.40 - Yes I know on the next run you will then run cheaper but that will be 25 - 20 years from now ....
3. If you got the "real thing" it will / should last you about 10 years so now you need to calculate the risk involved (Batts gets hot , maybe a very HIGH DoD from time to time, a bad cell , missed water levels exctr.) as well - lets add 30% just for in case
4. This put you at R 5.75 per KWh 
5. Add inflation to this and hands down Eskom just makes more sense for your bulk needs and a small bank for the times that load shed is around.

Any way , my 5c worth ( This obviously excludes the okes that does not have Eskom to start off with) 

Your observation is 100% correct, which is why, on smaller systems, standby batteries are fine. Eskom, is at this stage still cheaper and convenient enough to use at night. As said above, reduce your energy footprint, especially for night time usage and it will be fine. 

[PaulF007]

@SilverNodashi I hope that is a mine or something - Hear the premier of Mpumalanga spent something in the region of 1.5 or 2 Bar on a solar installation (Don't quote me on the numbers i just remember it was a boatload of money)  

[SilverNodashi]

3 minutes ago, PaulF007 said:

@SilverNodashi I hope that is a mine or something - Hear the premier of Mpumalanga spent something in the region of 1.5 or 2 Bar on a solar installation (Don't quote me on the numbers i just remember it was a boatload of money)  

75Kw is a bit small for a mine, unless it's a small mine. The figures are more or less on par. In this case, perhaps 1.8 bar. It's for a flat complex

[PaulF007]

Nope apparently for his farm and all the operations ... Maybe just because he has the money ...  and it is cool ...

[viper_za]

@PaulF007  If I may ask what did you pay for those batteries?

[PaulF007]

Suppose you may , I paid about R 27000 for the 8 of them works out about R 3 480.00 per batt... Y?

[viper_za]

8 minutes ago, PaulF007 said:

Suppose you may , I paid about R 27000 for the 8 of them works out about R 3 480.00 per batt... Y?

Do you know the history of these, +-number of cycles and age

Edit
And maybe if you know what they are capable of cycling new?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, viper_za said:

Do you know the history of these, +-number of cycles and age

Was Edmund's set and Axpert.

[superdiy]

20 hours ago, SilverNodashi said:

 2V/4700Ah batteries

Cells, not batteries.  Could not resist.