There you go. Now tell me CoCT is not leading the pack here!?

I have submitted my proposal that CoCT, at their costs, installs a bi-directional meter per home solar owner and keep the monthly grid connection free of R150 ex VAT, as is.

In return the home solar users will negotiated how much free kw/h per annum they will give to CoCT free of charge to use as they (CoCT) sees fit i.e. sell to others or off-set the free electricity they supply to the less affluent.

And then, once the annual pre-agreed threshold has been reached, move onto the nett-metering model until such time as the city can buy power from other sources than Eskom.

Reasoning being that a lot of home users are not optimally using the power their panels can generate, after having incurred the cost of the system already.

And if they bite and they win the court case, then we can make something back one day. Till then, why waste the power? Get the system in place that it is a win/win.

Go forth people, and send in your ideas ... 

http://www.capetown.gov.za/City-Connect/Have-your-say/requests-for-information/innovative-sustainable-energy-solution

Edited May 29, 20197 yr by Guest

CoCT inspector came around earlier today.  All very quick and efficient. 

He says he will approve my application this afternoon when he gets back to the office and get back to my installer so we can proceed with the inverter installation / testing. 

4 minutes ago, IdlePhaedrus said:

CoCT inspector came around earlier today.  All very quick and efficient. 

He says he will approve my application this afternoon when he gets back to the office and get back to my installer so we can proceed with the inverter installation / testing. 

One question, so you have nothing installed yet?

1 minute ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

One question, so you have nothing installed yet?

It is an existing installation.  3kw.  I had to turn it off in 2016 as my inverter was not on the NRS list (old Fronius, you'll find it for sale in the classifieds) and my old style meter was running backwards (now have a prepaid Itron).

I had to let everything slide since 2016 due to budget constraints, but the deadline essentially forced me to get the system sorted out.

It has cost more than I would have liked, but I had to get a new CoC for the house, then there are the installer's costs for the application and tidying up the existing installation, and the new inverter (Solis mini 3kw).  Haven't paid for the last item yet, waiting for approval, and then it can be installed.

I'll be very pleased when the system is finally back up and running.

 

The engineer was here this afternoon and my paperwork is finally done. I ended up just paying someone to do it. I'll keep you guys posted.

4 hours ago, plonkster said:

The engineer was here this afternoon and my paperwork is finally done. I ended up just paying someone to do it. I'll keep you guys posted.

What engineer? You not using me how dare you?!

 

But jokes aside. Meeting with CoCT went well and I will get the minutes of meeting sorted when I get some time. They clarified quite a lot of things. And yes, not all of it is nice to hear, but damn sensible so you can't stay angry! 

Some interesting facts:

1. No budging on the >3.5kW on 60A breaker

2. No installing 80A for SSEGs only (network issues)

3. CoCT doesn't give a damn about Axperts, you may install them at leisure. However you need to get an electrician to sign-off on the "off grid" status. 

(You DECLARE off-grid, not register off-grid). They just wanted to clear that up..

4. Users with greater than 100A, you are treated differently (sorry)

 

This is the cliff hanger notes, the details will be provided (hopefully by end of the weekend)

 

And @The Terrible Triplett, as a guy that built one of the first Solar Farms in SA and one of the first wind farms, I can gaurentee you the tariffs quoted is incorrect. The averaged 0.86 is more truthful. AND Eskom DOES NOT PAY FOR THE IPP ENERGY. (Mind blown, I know)... Its a Pass through charge, YOU and I have been paying for them for 2 to 3 years BEFORE the first IPP actually came on line. The IPP costs are directly built into the tariffs we pay. The now new ex-CEO made a statement some time back that the noise created around the IPPs was a false narrative and CSIR was actually not influenced by WMC and was telling the truth. Yes Rd1 Tariffs was expensive, however at about 1400MW installed it is not even a drop in the total energy bucket, CSP (Concentrated Solar Power) was around R4.50 per kWh, but they provided storage as well... (an that was again just a small fraction of the 1400MW).

 

Wait until weekend for the full notes

 

14 minutes ago, Rautenk said:

YOU and I have been paying for them for 2 to 3 years BEFORE the first IPP actually came on line. The IPP costs are directly built into the tariffs we pay.

So it was all smoke and mirrors, no?

 

14 minutes ago, Rautenk said:

This is the cliff hanger notes, the details will be provided (hopefully by end of the weekend)

Cannot wait!

I'm particularly interested to hear why CoCT is so stringent on the limiting of the size of inverters based on the home's main breaker amperage, after reading you last email when you mentioned, I quote: "... (CoCT) have had engagements with other countries on this, countries that are now having problems. Even in Germany some cities are suffering due to the uncontrolled sizes of installation on the networks (not as a total network, but on localized areas)."

My take on why they are limiting: It is not one or two here and there, no, it is 100 or a 1000 inverters in the same area that affect the grid, a grid that was not designed to handle such.

 

16 minutes ago, Rautenk said:

3. CoCT doesn't give a damn about Axperts, you may install them at leisure. However you need to get an electrician to sign-off on the "off grid" status. 
(You DECLARE off-grid, not register off-grid). They just wanted to clear that up..

At LAST the Axpert saga can now be put to bed once and for all. 🙂 

9 hours ago, Rautenk said:

What engineer? You not using me how dare you?!

Hehehe. Yes, I dragged my feet for so long that by the end of it I talked a local installer into doing the whole paperwork thing for me at a fee. Which ended up being quite a bit more than yours 🙂

 

10 hours ago, Rautenk said:

 

 

But jokes aside. Meeting with CoCT went well and I will get the minutes of meeting sorted when I get some time. They clarified quite a lot of things. And yes, not all of it is nice to hear, but damn sensible so you can't stay angry! 

Some interesting facts:

1. No budging on the >3.5kW on 60A breaker

2. No installing 80A for SSEGs only (network issues)

3. CoCT doesn't give a damn about Axperts, you may install them at leisure. However you need to get an electrician to sign-off on the "off grid" status. 

(You DECLARE off-grid, not register off-grid). They just wanted to clear that up..

4. Users with greater than 100A, you are treated differently (sorry)

 

 

 

Wait until weekend for the full notes

 

From above it seems quite clear that single-phase grid-tie installations are not that desirable. Currently they don't make much financial sense and CoCT don't seem to want them in the long run if they are restricted by network issues which means there is limited scope for improved feed-in tariffs and limits.

Interesting that they themselves see the off-grid systems as requiring mere declarations, meanwhile their wording says "Apply for Authorisation" and you receive an "Approval" letter once they've done due-diligence. Be that as it may, Axperts are good to go as several of our approved applications in past two weeks are testament of.

20 hours ago, IdlePhaedrus said:

CoCT inspector came around earlier today.  All very quick and efficient. 

He says he will approve my application this afternoon when he gets back to the office and get back to my installer so we can proceed with the inverter installation / testing. 

Quick question, did they make an appointment or was it a surprise visit?  My wife knows where the "stuff" are but that's about it.  I'll have to be home when the inspector visits.

31 minutes ago, PeterP said:

From above it seems quite clear that single-phase grid-tie installations are not that desirable.

How do you reach that conclusion? 

33 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

How do you reach that conclusion? 

Weeeellll, I read it this way. He might mean it is not desirable to the City, or he might mean it is not that desirable to the consumer. I can sort of see an argument for both.

Having lots of large single-phase suppliers can become a problem. Generally you want to balance phases, this also affects the current on the neutral wire. A large single-phase generator (or shall we say haphazard installation of such things without care about phase balancing... cause the consumer doesn't control what phase he is on) could be undesirable to your supplier.

But for the consumer, it might also be undesirable to be limited to a mere 3.5kwh because it might not allow him to adequately cancel out his loads (making a mere 18kwh or so per day) nor sell to the grid. This is a bit of a subjective judgement I think... to me personally 3.5kw is AMPLE to be of value 🙂

 

5 minutes ago, plonkster said:

... to me personally 3.5kw is AMPLE to be of value 🙂

+1

Therein my NEEDS vs WANTS song here on the forum. 🙂 
The latest, fit your load to the batts, not the batts to the load. 

Both the above are intended to make people think twice, or long and hard, because with grid tied systems, when you spread the loads cleverly with off-the-shelf-stock-standard timers, you can get very VERY far on 3.5kw during the day.

Not forgetting that for most of the people out there the expensive loads are early mornings / early evenings - i.e. when they leave for and return home from work.

I have decided to go for a 3.5kw array whilst keeping batteries fully charge.
So I'm limited to the 2.4kw of the inverter - if I keep it at room temperature - but in winter I hope to still get the 2.4kw out of the arrray seeing as I am dumping the 8 year old EV tubes system.

And when I do one day find a 24v TTT's priced lithium bank, then I have the panels already in place.

24 minutes ago, plonkster said:

... it is not desirable to the City, or he might mean it is not that desirable to the consumer.

I think there is a real honest no-nonsense technically valid and sound reason why they limit each home.

19 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

I think there is a real honest no-nonsense technically valid and sound reason why they limit each home.

Yeah arguing this stuff is difficult. There is the usual knee-jerk reaction you get in some quarters, often committing the fallacy of the false alternative: You guys are just out to get us! And then there is blind acceptance on the other side. You can't have a discussion unless you know what went into the decision, and it sounds from what @Rautenk says that they did do their homework. A single phase connection may in fact be somewhat "useless", depending on who you are, for the purposes of doing proper SSEG stuff 🙂

1 minute ago, plonkster said:

A single phase connection may in fact be somewhat "useless", depending on who you are, for the purposes of doing proper SSEG stuff

Hoe bedoel jy?

1 hour ago, PeterP said:

Axperts are good to go as several of our approved applications in past two weeks are testament of

As the Axpert is classified as an "Off Grid Hybrid SSEG" it does not have to be a type tested NRS compliant inverter but instead falls under the unbrella of SANS 10142 which invokes SANS 62040 for UPS installations. 

Has the Axpert been certified to SANS 62040-1 (IEC 62040 -1) UPS specification?     If it is not certified how does it get signed off for a COC - just curios?  

12 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

why they limit each home.

An interesting point from NRS 097 -2-3 (2014) Section 4.1 Note 3a states: "An individual limit of 25 % of NMD will typicallly support a penetration level (percentage of customers that install a generator) of 30 % to 50 % which is considered a reasonable and acceptable compromise between restricting individual generator sizes vesrus restricting penetration levels."

The limit for total generation on a shared & dedicated LV generation supplied by a MV/LV transformer must be less than 75 % of the MV/LV transformer ratiing as per NRS. How that is shared out among us is where the 25 % comes in.

2 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Hoe bedoel jy?

"Depending on who you are". If you are the kind of person who wants to stick up a 10kWp array on your 7-large mansion, offset a whole lot of loads (pools, geysers), and feed in some power into the grid to offset some of the night time use, you know PROPER SSEG stuff, then a single-phase connection will limit you too much.

If you're plonky or TTT... party on!

Edited May 30, 20197 yr by plonkster

2 minutes ago, plonkster said:

10kWp array on your 7-large mansion

Apply for 3-phase and stop bitching. 🙂 

31 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

And when I do one day find a 24v TTT's priced lithium bank, then I have the panels already in place.

 

I see Pylon now has a 24v bank @TTT

3 minutes ago, Carl said:

Has the Axpert been certified to SANS 62040-1 (IEC 62040 -1) UPS specification?     If it is not certified how does it get signed off for a COC - just curios?  

Yeah... that is the question. I believe it was discussed at the meeting but @Rautenk probably redacted that from his preliminary message above. As I understand it, that's not the job of the Climate Change Directorate guys at CoCT. They are not tasked with checking that the inverter complies. That's the job of your sparky, the one giving you the CoC.

The Axpert does not have official paperwork to this extent. I think that is factually true and I can say that without risking a mob of pitchfork wielding Axpert owners at my gate. Whether the arrangement inside the inverter is sufficient... truth be told I am not sure at all. I think they relay arrangement is a bit iffy... but I am not an expert. It is also possible that the inverter employs voltage sensing (make sure the lines are dead) before switching. Then there is also the matter of the neutral on the inverter that is never disconnected. I simply don't know.

4 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Apply for 3-phase and stop bitching. 🙂 

Aaaah, but will they entertain your application? They won't up you to 80A, that we already know. I suspect they will upgrade you to 3-phase, because that removes some of the issues I mentioned above.

1 minute ago, Mark said:

I see Pylon now has a 24v bank @TTT

What where!!! I call fake news if there is no SA website link!!! 🤣

10 minutes ago, Carl said:

An interesting point from NRS 097 -2-3 (2014) Section 4.1 Note 3a states: "An individual limit of 25 % of NMD will typicallly support a penetration level (percentage of customers that install a generator) of 30 % to 50 % which is considered a reasonable and acceptable compromise between restricting individual generator sizes vesrus restricting penetration levels."

The limit for total generation on a shared & dedicated LV generation supplied by a MV/LV transformer must be less than 75 % of the MV/LV transformer ratiing as per NRS. How that is shared out among us is where the 25 % comes in.

I get that with my limited knowledge about there matters, but ideally I want to understand the big picture behind the above seeing that SA is brand new to the grid tied move AND the fact that the truly qualified Eskom engineers has left the building. 😉 

18 minutes ago, plonkster said:

"Depending on who you are". If you are the kind of person who wants to stick up a 10kWp array on your 7-large mansion, offset a whole lot of loads (pools, geysers), and feed in some power into the grid to offset some of the night time use, you know PROPER SSEG stuff, then a single-phase connection will limit you too much.

If you're plonky or TTT... party on!

Partly why I am keeping my 3p connection just for the moment... MAYBE the sun will rise on SSEG opportunities for those who have space...maybe I'll pay for my retirement out of generation income one day ...😏

Edited May 30, 20197 yr by Mark

8 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

What where!!! I call fake news if there is no SA website link!!! 🤣

http://www.pylontech.com.cn/pro_detail.aspx?id=124&cid=23

Low+voltage+energy+storage+system.pdf

UP2500.pdf

Edited May 30, 20197 yr by Mark

2 minutes ago, Mark said:

land to spare

Hey, careful with saying that in public. Ol' Andile and the  19,796 people who voted for him might come after you...

Just now, Mark said:

http://www.pylontech.com.cn/pro_detail.aspx?id=124&cid=23

Now we are talking!!! Now to find someone to import them and get the pricing right. 🙂 

Ps. I emailed them last year asking when they will do 12/24v. They said they have none yet but are talking about it ... so they have dunnit.