Hello, people of the Internet.

I need some help, and it doesn't seem like there's any support available from the retailers, importers, local representatives or head office in China. I've tried.

I've installed a 16kW Deye, with solar and batteries. It isolates from the grid during load shedding (which is normal, I'd assume), but this causes neutral to float. I'm getting almost 100V between neutral and earth. Page 34 of the manual shows an external N-⏚ bonding relay, operated by a 230V output from the ATS port. Unfortunately, there is no ATS port on connection 19-20 (where it is on the 8kW unit), and the manual confirms this. Where connection 19-20 would normally be, there are 2 dip switches, which aren't mentioned anywhere in the manual.

Is there a secret ATS port? Is there another way to bond N-⏚? Do I have to hack off the dip switches? Can I just bond grid N to Load N? That seems pretty odd, since Deye went to the effort of isolating them.

If all else fails, I'm gonna tie onto the 12VDC coils that operate the grid isolation relays, and use a 12VDC coil N-⏚ bonding relay. It'll require soldering a cable to the back of a PC board, behind a sealed enclosure cover. This doesn't strike me as a reasonable amount of effort to go to, so there's got to be something I'm missing, right? Right?

Any help appreciated.

Regards,

John.

The iterations of this 16kw machine changed a few times. Some didn't have the ATS port despite the manual stating so. These older models may use the pins labelled gen signal to act as the ATS if need be, if I remember correctly. 

@Steve87 will clarify

The easier route is to use an external neutral earth bond relay, segen sell pre made boxes ( Like this) or you can create the equivalent one yourself. 

Where are you based? Good Electrician should be able to sort you out. 

Edited November 22, 20232 yr by abd7

Thanks abd7.

I checked all the connections, both with grid and without, and found no voltage on any of them. Possibly an incorrect setting?

Do you have any further information on those boxes? At that price, I'd guess that they've just got the bonding relay coil connected to the grid. Problem is that there's a 60(?) second delay between when the grid comes back, and when the inverter closes the grid isolation relays. The bond would be in the incorrect state for that time? I'm trying to avoid this.

And after 25 years in the property development industry, I'll keep my mouth shut about electricians or they'll definitely not reply.

There is no ATS240 on the 16kW new version. You can use the Grid L & N & use a 230V relay to do the Neutral to Earth bonding based on the Grid voltage dropping away. So a Normally closed Relay will work. You use Grid power to excite the coil. When Grid falls away the Earth & Neutral will bond. When Grid returns the Coil is energised & will separate the bond. 

@BritishRacingGreenhas a good file or someone that followed his instructions & has a good document on how to achieve this...

Thanks Steve87.

That's what I feared. I didn't think that they'd make a product that's actually impossible to install correctly, but it looks like they have. Like I said, I don't want a floating neutral, even for the 60 seconds between grid being restored, and the inverter de-isolating it, so I'm gonna have to have a look under those dip switches, or otherwise use the 12VDC isolation signal (and order a 12VDC relay). You wouldn't happen to know what those dip switches do? Or why they still have the islanding option in the firmware, while there's no port for it to act on.

The dip switches are for parallelling options & serve as a termination resistor on or off. The firmware is generic Deye firmware that all the Deye models have. They all have the Signal island mode on all of them. The 12kW version exactly the same & when I say Deye throw Sunsynk into the same category they are OEM for Sunsynk so the product is the same. 

The Neutral will never be floating in the case I have stated above. 

Scenario 1 Grid is active: 

The inverter uses the Grid bond of Neutral to Earth as done by the Grid standard. The temporary bonding of Earth to Load Neutral is not present because the Grid L&N are connected to the Coil of the 230V relay so the relay is now open.  Result = No floating Neutral. 

Scenario 2 Grid is loadshed: 

The coil is connected to the Grid. The Grid is not there. The relay is a NC ( Normally Closed) Meaning with zero volts there is a hard bond made from Natural to Earth. Result= No floating Neutral. 

Scenario 3 Grid restores: 

The Coil is now energised. The Inverter will take a Minute to accept the Grid power. This can be reduced via changing settings. Now the real questions are the following: 

Is that Bond of N to E now active with the Grid in the 1 min time delay?? 

Is the Load Neutral floating until the Deye accepts Grid power?? 

If so is this acceptable for the NRS 097 standard. Because the machine has passed that certification. 

Interesting points raised but I wouldnt loose sleep over it. 2 options remain: Use the relay I mention above or do a permanent Neutral to Earth bond. We can argue the merits of this for decades on the electrical forums and groups. 

Bottom line make the Floating Neutral stop floating. How you do that is your business...

Don't expect Deye to answer your questions, they have already sold too many of these machines to reply & are too busy selling more. 

12 hours ago, Steve87 said:

Interesting points raised but I wouldnt loose sleep over it

I agree not a serious issues if the bond is released when the inverter is still in island for 60 seconds, but if you want to take it a step further then use a delay on timer and set it to the 60 seconds if you miss the synchronization with 1 or 2 seconds no issue. So how it then works if utility returns after LS then the relay will receive power but it won't switch the contact until the timer has elapsed so if it is set to 1 minute the relay will not switch the contacts before 1 minute.

14 hours ago, John123456 said:

And after 25 years in the property development industry, I'll keep my mouth shut about electricians or they'll definitely not reply.

That is a very generalized statement due to your experience with"some" electricians during your career i am sure there are a few that has the same sentiment towards professional individuals in the property development industry.

There are good doctors & not so good doctors. The same can be said about pilots. In fact can be said about any profession. The individual makes or breaks the experience. We are as diverse as people come. This Deye conundrum is there & at least we know about it. There are some good suggestions on how to make yourself comfortable with how to address the Bonding. 

 

Here is a solution:

27 minutes ago, TonyH said:

Here is a solution:

Exactly 💯 thanks @TonyH

Thanks to everyone for the input. I've ordered a 12VDC and a 230VAC timer relay, and will decide which I'll use once they arrive. Most importantly, I now know that I'm not going crazy, because after speaking to so many "experts" who look at me like I've grown a second head when I ask them this sort of question, I was beginning to wonder if I'd missed some vital information.

All the best, John.