Steve87

Todays technology can always be reviewed in a few years much like the Sunsynk has in the above posts. Solis is the latest flavour. At the same time as the Sunsynk Honeymoon was the Woolworths (because of price) FreedomWon Honeymoon at the same time. How time & brands change. 5 years of good service from any of these brands is doing good. Tech changes quickly & so does the utility supplier. Given you on a farm id not even bother with a hybrid that is bi directional. The costs of the transformer pole doesn't make sense.
2 X 6kW off grid deyes are the sweetest honey in terms of price & redundancy. Get a small 6kW Genset with the savings. I love the quality of the 16kW deye but you could buy all the items I've mentioned in this paragraph & have change to spare. At R7k a pop it doesn't get better than that. The Deye MAX is somewhere north of R40k. Too much in my opinion for the romance.

Thanks a lot, Solar Assistant Support is currently busy trying to assist me, so if all else fails, I'll try that as well. Thanks a lot for the advice! I will update the discussion as we go along.

Oh, so I must replace my current Sunsynk logger to test?

Yes, you can probably set this up as the Grid feeding the Victron, problem is, do you have it connected to the batteries as well? and who charges the batteries, the Solis or the Victron, the Victron would obviously have to go on the UPS side of the Solis and if this is the case, would the Solis be happy to have another generator (the Victron) sitting at its output end? If the Solis is not battery connected, but only grid and UPS to the Victron end, not sure this would actually work, as soon as the grid disappears, I'm guessing so would the Solis, so no more solar power...

So, go on, get a SMA or Fronius and cut the cord, then everything should work out as expected :-) else, ditch the Victron and invest in Solis or do what I did, ditching the grid and getting MPPTs, I could have gotten AC coupled MPPTs, like Fronius or SMA, but didn't consider this an option, after all, if the inverters were to go down, the batteries would still get charged by the MPPTs here... whilst sorting out the inverters... since not telling the inverters about the batteries by way of CANbus messages, the inverters have never gone down, the MPPTs charge based on Voltage, at 55.2V I consider my 16S batteries full 3.450V per cell and that all works as expected. The inverters, of course, can not charge the batteries, since there is no grid, so no need to let them/Cerbo know too much about the batteries anyway, other than, consider the batteries empty at 48V (they aren't but have never reached that level yet).

Some one once told me its like the worst restaurant you have ever been to. The service is slow, the food is cold and the the food of very poor quality. So you have a bad experience & you keep going back and pricing keeps going up.
For many that have the choice we never go back but for many they stop noticing and actually just put up with it.
In the end I think for many they just become irrelevant.
But people don't realise their biggest customers are farmers & that's our food security & based on that fact I guess they will have to keep being a going concern one way or another even if it's by hand outs by the state.

1st we had the so called report that had to be issued by an registered engineer. Cannot put it as a requirement as a COC meets the condition of the law. Then they tried to line their own pockets with the R30th fine.
Let's sit back and watch the soapy unfolding going forward.
Some other news out is that they might this year only sell the same GWh of power as 30 years ago. Can such a business survive with less customers and still wanting to increase the free power for the poor. The rich customers they showed the door are all off the grid.

Hi Corne, not really a unique situation. The modern Commercial sites have this type of Micro Grid topology mostly if there are Grid ties involved with a Hybrid BESS system that's are AC coupled on the Load side. The advantage of AC coupling on the load side is the Grid tie gets Voltage ref from the Load side and will produce power all the time. If on the Grid side it will island if Grid power is lost. I used to know the Victron architecture well but I certainly am not current on it at all. The Victron does feature Frequency shifting, however, it's only possible when there is no Grid power involved because it can shift the frequency & the Grid tie will ramp. When there is Grid power that's not an option.
If costs were no issue I'd DC couple with a Victron MPPT because the extra power goes to the Battery and the Mppt will self regulate as it's a Victron product. But price is an issue and the Solis is cheaper. I wouldn't worry about losses at this power level of AC coupling Vs DC coupling I think it's going to be negligible.
There is a another way depending on how handy you can be with HA and Venus OS. Modern Grid tied inverters don't rely solely on frequency shifting to limit power. They also support RS485/ serial Comms & use Modbus. The Solis will definitely feature Power dispatching. Basically you tell Mr. Solis: hey I need 2kW from you & he will produce 2kW. So in HA you will have your instance looking at battery SoC from your Victron & tell the Sols to limit to Load when the battery is above 95%. I actively work in this field with much larger megawatt plants & a controller that can arbitrage and dispatch power as required to service the plant as a micro grid.
However, this is small residential project & all said & done probably the best & bulletproof option is the Mppt from Victron. The Grid tie option is affordable but adding an EMS (Energy management system) doesn't really make financial sense. If you however, you have the time and patience it's doable, there is a Solis integration available on HACS as well as a Venus OS integration. Blend the 2 together and write some automation rules and you in business. Doesn't even have to be complicated, can even program something simple like Above 98% SoC Shutdown the Solis and startup again below 95%. Keep it simple...

Hi Corne, not really a unique situation. The modern Commercial sites have this type of Micro Grid topology mostly if there are Grid ties involved with a Hybrid BESS system that's are AC coupled on the Load side. The advantage of AC coupling on the load side is the Grid tie gets Voltage ref from the Load side and will produce power all the time. If on the Grid side it will island if Grid power is lost. I used to know the Victron architecture well but I certainly am not current on it at all. The Victron does feature Frequency shifting, however, it's only possible when there is no Grid power involved because it can shift the frequency & the Grid tie will ramp. When there is Grid power that's not an option.
If costs were no issue I'd DC couple with a Victron MPPT because the extra power goes to the Battery and the Mppt will self regulate as it's a Victron product. But price is an issue and the Solis is cheaper. I wouldn't worry about losses at this power level of AC coupling Vs DC coupling I think it's going to be negligible.
There is a another way depending on how handy you can be with HA and Venus OS. Modern Grid tied inverters don't rely solely on frequency shifting to limit power. They also support RS485/ serial Comms & use Modbus. The Solis will definitely feature Power dispatching. Basically you tell Mr. Solis: hey I need 2kW from you & he will produce 2kW. So in HA you will have your instance looking at battery SoC from your Victron & tell the Sols to limit to Load when the battery is above 95%. I actively work in this field with much larger megawatt plants & a controller that can arbitrage and dispatch power as required to service the plant as a micro grid.
However, this is small residential project & all said & done probably the best & bulletproof option is the Mppt from Victron. The Grid tie option is affordable but adding an EMS (Energy management system) doesn't really make financial sense. If you however, you have the time and patience it's doable, there is a Solis integration available on HACS as well as a Venus OS integration. Blend the 2 together and write some automation rules and you in business. Doesn't even have to be complicated, can even program something simple like Above 98% SoC Shutdown the Solis and startup again below 95%. Keep it simple...

Hi Corne, not really a unique situation. The modern Commercial sites have this type of Micro Grid topology mostly if there are Grid ties involved with a Hybrid BESS system that's are AC coupled on the Load side. The advantage of AC coupling on the load side is the Grid tie gets Voltage ref from the Load side and will produce power all the time. If on the Grid side it will island if Grid power is lost. I used to know the Victron architecture well but I certainly am not current on it at all. The Victron does feature Frequency shifting, however, it's only possible when there is no Grid power involved because it can shift the frequency & the Grid tie will ramp. When there is Grid power that's not an option.
If costs were no issue I'd DC couple with a Victron MPPT because the extra power goes to the Battery and the Mppt will self regulate as it's a Victron product. But price is an issue and the Solis is cheaper. I wouldn't worry about losses at this power level of AC coupling Vs DC coupling I think it's going to be negligible.
There is a another way depending on how handy you can be with HA and Venus OS. Modern Grid tied inverters don't rely solely on frequency shifting to limit power. They also support RS485/ serial Comms & use Modbus. The Solis will definitely feature Power dispatching. Basically you tell Mr. Solis: hey I need 2kW from you & he will produce 2kW. So in HA you will have your instance looking at battery SoC from your Victron & tell the Sols to limit to Load when the battery is above 95%. I actively work in this field with much larger megawatt plants & a controller that can arbitrage and dispatch power as required to service the plant as a micro grid.
However, this is small residential project & all said & done probably the best & bulletproof option is the Mppt from Victron. The Grid tie option is affordable but adding an EMS (Energy management system) doesn't really make financial sense. If you however, you have the time and patience it's doable, there is a Solis integration available on HACS as well as a Venus OS integration. Blend the 2 together and write some automation rules and you in business. Doesn't even have to be complicated, can even program something simple like Above 98% SoC Shutdown the Solis and startup again below 95%. Keep it simple...

Very Interesting observation thanks I checked all the mainstream brands around the 14 to 16KW mark and none of them are actually 1C rated
In Fact they are all between 0.4C and 0.73 C across all major brands.
I think the limitation is the BMS here and not what the cells can do this also gives an advantage to cell life heat and other factors resulting higher cycle ratings.
So the error is not on the Knyee Data sheet but an error on the online store which has been rectified.

I think the main issues the Chinese battery makers are having is the cells can deliver that energy at 1C but the BMS cannot. The only BMS I'm aware of that can go big is the JDB300A BMS & that said I have not seen anything that is close to that. Maybe 230A at best.
Of course if you stack them then this unlocks that energy but I always ask the question: if I have a Sunsynk MAX or Deye 16kW Inverter and I demand 16kW of power I would like to know I can draw 16kW instantaneous from the battery. Even the Deye SF16 is limited and that's probably a PACE BMS.
No insult to the Knyee product but the above 12kWh Chinese batteries all seem to not be true 1C. The only one I know of is from FreedomWon & they not using a Chinese BMS at all. The only ones I know need to be stacked in 5kWh modules or 10kWh modules and my calculated guess tells me it's the BMS tech that struggles to regulate that power through a printed PCB. On the other hand a JBD uses a physical DC Contactor rather than a the mosfet arrangement. Food for thought. All the HV inverters and Batteries also deploy DC Contactors as do EVs.

Just gotta love those product specs:

🤣

Lets just say its probably the BMS that limits it and not the cells. Good catch though lol

I think the main issues the Chinese battery makers are having is the cells can deliver that energy at 1C but the BMS cannot. The only BMS I'm aware of that can go big is the JDB300A BMS & that said I have not seen anything that is close to that. Maybe 230A at best.
Of course if you stack them then this unlocks that energy but I always ask the question: if I have a Sunsynk MAX or Deye 16kW Inverter and I demand 16kW of power I would like to know I can draw 16kW instantaneous from the battery. Even the Deye SF16 is limited and that's probably a PACE BMS.
No insult to the Knyee product but the above 12kWh Chinese batteries all seem to not be true 1C. The only one I know of is from FreedomWon & they not using a Chinese BMS at all. The only ones I know need to be stacked in 5kWh modules or 10kWh modules and my calculated guess tells me it's the BMS tech that struggles to regulate that power through a printed PCB. On the other hand a JBD uses a physical DC Contactor rather than a the mosfet arrangement. Food for thought. All the HV inverters and Batteries also deploy DC Contactors as do EVs.

I think the main issues the Chinese battery makers are having is the cells can deliver that energy at 1C but the BMS cannot. The only BMS I'm aware of that can go big is the JDB300A BMS & that said I have not seen anything that is close to that. Maybe 230A at best.
Of course if you stack them then this unlocks that energy but I always ask the question: if I have a Sunsynk MAX or Deye 16kW Inverter and I demand 16kW of power I would like to know I can draw 16kW instantaneous from the battery. Even the Deye SF16 is limited and that's probably a PACE BMS.
No insult to the Knyee product but the above 12kWh Chinese batteries all seem to not be true 1C. The only one I know of is from FreedomWon & they not using a Chinese BMS at all. The only ones I know need to be stacked in 5kWh modules or 10kWh modules and my calculated guess tells me it's the BMS tech that struggles to regulate that power through a printed PCB. On the other hand a JBD uses a physical DC Contactor rather than a the mosfet arrangement. Food for thought. All the HV inverters and Batteries also deploy DC Contactors as do EVs.

Very happy to report that my invasive balancing and getting my 10/8 back into a positive direction has bore some fruits...Was a bad case of not reaching 100% and giving the poor battery a chance to top balance and level things out.
She is now producing what I expect and I'm happy that it wasn't anything worse than I thought. Sometimes there is a good ending...the delta to Lowest and highest cell been reducing for a few days and cycles.

If you think the professionals are expensive, wait till you see what the amateurs cost.

@robkowa they do exist but they are probably busy and hence you might not find them maybe waiting around. The market did take a slump so some of the independent sparkles honest went for more secure work or the really good ones moved into doing commercial work and smaller work like this is no longer paying their bills.
No clue where you are but call Gideon if you in Gauteng: 082 905 0773.

I don't think you will get solis to display these details on the Solis. The Orion JR BMS also has these messages displayed in its CANbus. In fact the Orion can be configured to display any host of information as can be configured on the CANbus and you can make your own CANbus frames to configure with any inverter or EMS to read.
But this is what you have to understand: when a battery OEM decides to support an inverter they have no control over what the inverter integration team will want. Generally the bare bone basics will be battery temps, Charge and discharge limits & SoC. This is almost an industry standard of sorts. However, you can't force Solis nor FW to make or build features that only you want. They can see it as a suggestion but that's about it.
The points 1,2,3 &4 are all readily available on the BMS and on the Orion ready for broadcast if configured.

I don't think you will get solis to display these details on the Solis. The Orion JR BMS also has these messages displayed in its CANbus. In fact the Orion can be configured to display any host of information as can be configured on the CANbus and you can make your own CANbus frames to configure with any inverter or EMS to read.
But this is what you have to understand: when a battery OEM decides to support an inverter they have no control over what the inverter integration team will want. Generally the bare bone basics will be battery temps, Charge and discharge limits & SoC. This is almost an industry standard of sorts. However, you can't force Solis nor FW to make or build features that only you want. They can see it as a suggestion but that's about it.
The points 1,2,3 &4 are all readily available on the BMS and on the Orion ready for broadcast if configured.

Succinctly put @Steve87 now the next battle is getting to have information displayed on Solis Inverter in respect of:
Correct number of Cycles
Number of parallel connections
Battery Packs (number of single module core strings); and
Number of Battery Modules in Series
Already FW has indicated that this is a Solis issue via email which I have shared with Solis and hoping to get a way forward and resolution. My knowledge (limited as it is) indicates that this would be a BMU/BMS issue which the two of them ideally should work together to do a firmware which would give a resolution, unless the eTower PACE BMS is not physically able to do this, but I guess I have to wait and see.

Good day guys, I haven't posted something for a while and really haven't had the time. A very interesting problem arose on my FreedomWon 10/8 & due to the sheer frustration of trying to get support I made a decision to get intrusive with the unit & I voided the warranty. More on the warranty a little later and in general I hope that this thread opens up a very worthwhile conversation on warranties and what are they really worth. Even more interesting is the South Africa Battery assemblers as I call them. Let's face it, the raw Lithium is processed in China and made into prismatic cells and then shipped away to our shores as either an assembled battery unit or finds itself on the assembly line here in SA via FreedomWon factory or other well known SA battery manufacturers. The Local guys here then have a factory to a build those prismatic cells into a production unit & pair it with a BMS and then sell this finished product.
Now here is starts to get interesting: How long will these businesses stay relevant because it's a very tough market. The Chinese have the technology to process lithium, they also have the R & D to produce BMS controllers and let's face it their manufacturing costs are a fraction of what can be done here in SA. We now start to see Lithium batteries starting to reach Lead Acid pricing for the first time and sales on the market in general have dried up.
I have evaluated and deployed locally built as well as Chinese LV & HV batteries is mass. I myself used to build batteries. I'm sorry to say the undercut and the affordability of buying a production Chinese imported battery makes this a no brainer.
I hope there are more people out there that can add more perspective to this starting thread. Will add more details on the problem I had, the support that was offered and the steps I took to take matters into my own hands to salvage my battery and get it healthy again.

Just glad you managed to get a favourable outcome in the end. Politics aside it's important where you buy equipment and people forget that post sales support and lifecycle and probably the 2 most important aspects of any piece of technical equipment purchase.
Living in a remote cross border location can complicate life for you even further.

@Bernardf your point is well noted & I don't disagree with you. I followed the same steps as you but unfortunately being off-grid I could not wait for 4 weeks and lose 10kWh of capacity. The same prospect arises for their HV batteries and the lightest one is +-400kg. So the concept of remove and take to service centre is not so straightforward for a logistics perspective. They usually visit the site with technicians and service and sort out on site.
In the past there was no issue with requiring assistance like this and they offered it willingly to all locations countrywide. Lately there has been the combination of refuting the warranty and wanting to get the customer to pay for travel and logistics to their site location as well boarding and lodging charges added in a quotation for such repair and evaluation. I have also seen on occasions that replacement of the LV & HV Orion BMSs be quoted prior to on site evaluation between R60k all the way up to R250k. Some have not been my installations but one of them was and the customer paid the R250k up front replacement costs before an onsite inspection was carried out on the equipment.
The Orion is great and all the bells and whistles but is this not becoming an Achilles heal for the end user. The Typical HV topology of BAU/ BCU / BMU doesn't cost R250k, this in the case of a Chinese production battery imported. In contrast it's along the lines of R35K maximum. It also does the same job & it's components are serviceable and repairable component wise. It's also adopted from the Chinese EV market.
I'm was a massive FW supporter and still am to a much lesser degree but unfortunately the market is shifting and in my humble opinion FW and other local OEMs will find it very hard to stay relevant in these modern times with the production Chinese equipment imported from the Motherland.

The Orion is in a different class to any other BMS out there. I have worked on multiple other BMSs. That BMS is made in the USA and it's a very polished specimen in terms of hardware and software. It's even used in the HV batteries to power up the Toyota Prius EV. Btw I'm not sure it's an OEM of the Prius but I do see documentation to supports it's applied use.
My battery got very ill due to my home being completely off-grid and not reaching 100% regularly to float. The first issue that I had was that Cell 1 had a massively weird difference in internal resistance to the others. Then when you charge it the Cell would peak crazily fast and during the discharge the opposite would happen. I logged a ticket and got some remote support but the particular service tech was adjusting software to fix what was very likely to me a physical hardware fault. You can fix hardware problems with software. You can maybe mask the problem but you can't fix it.
I then left it for a week or so & FW basically tried to close the ticket saying it was fixed. I knew the only issue that can arise as these symptoms are a loose cell sensing cable and the cell was not in balance.
The hardware of the 10/8 is on another planet quality wise. FW package this battery to a high level of quality. It's in a powder coated high gloss 3mm metal enclosure and the cells are very well protected inside a plastic types of rigid case with insulation covers. I wanted to remove the entire unit to get at the offensive cell. It's probably possible but given the welded topology and the fact they actually use 2 X 100ah cells laser welded with aluminium studs made that proposition almost impossible to deassemble the entire unit. So all I had to play with was the Harness or 16 cells and a slow charger...
Sorry will add more info later...