Hi there,

Well my first post was a bit of a mess which lead to off-topic comments.
Here is (hopefully) a better structured version of my original post:

I'm running a Deye 5KW Hybrid inverter /  2 x Volta Stage 1 batteries (2 x 5KWh in parallel) / 12 x 550W solar panels
The end goal is to be fully off-grid, run my essential loads either from solar or batteries and then also run my geyser as non-essential.
(I've read up on the System Work Mode menu where you can optionally charge the batteries from the grid if they reach a specific minimum SOC)

From what I understand (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong):
- The non-essential load according to Deye is wired into the Generator Port (a separate physical output on the inverter) and is referred to as Smart Load.
- Under the Gen Port menu, the option for SmartLoad Output is selected with a "Power" value specified
- Under the Gen Port menu, under the Micro Inv Input section, battery SOC % values are input.
- Under the System Work Mode menu, Zero Export to CT must be selected.
(I read somewhere that power is not sent to non-essential power if Zero Export to Load is selected)

My (main) essential load is my fridge and desktop computer ( plus other random small appliances like a fan) which typically add up to 500W.
My PV array is split east / west with 4 panels (2200W) east facing and 8 panels (4400w) west facing. (I had no choice as that is how my roof was built !)
My current setting setting under System Work Mode is Zero Export to CT / LoadFirst.

My geyser is not currently connected to my inverter at all. The entire plan is to run it from the SmartLoad when I have surplus solar output.

Now for some questions:

Assuming that my geyser has a 2000W element, and my typical essential load is around 500W, what do I set the "Power" value to?
Which battery SOC % values is recommended under the Micro Inv Input section?
Is it required to use the Zero Export To CT mode under the System Work Mode in order to send load the non-essential load?

Assuming that I set my "Power" setting to 2500W and my batteries are charging from solar output during the morning:
Will battery charging from surplus solar output be prioritized over SmartLoad?

Lets say there is 3000W surplus solar output and my batteries draws 2000W while charging.
That should leave 1KW additional power for SmartLoad? (Which is not enough to run a 2000W geyser).
Will the inverter simply choose to not run the geyser until the batteries are fully charged and there is sufficient surplus solar power?

I assume that I would use a relatively high SOC % value for ON and OFF to ensure that SmartLoad is only possible if the batteries are relative fully recharged?
I was thinking 100% - 90%. 

Is it possible under any condition that SmartLoad can draw power from the batteries? (That is not something that I would want to happen.)

As far as I am aware is the CT clamp currently (correctly) installed on the essential (main) load output on the inverter itself.
If I would wire my inverter into my main DB , it is my understanding that the CT clamp will need to be moved and placed between the DB and main eskom feed.
(Geyser would no longer be wired into main DB)

Thank you for your time !


(Not my own inverter settings. Just a picture for reference)

Edited March 10, 20242 yr by Niel Kotze
Fixed typos

10 hours ago, Niel Kotze said:

Is it possible under any condition that SmartLoad can draw power from the batteries? (That is not something that I would want to happen.)

Don't know about the Deye, but with the Sunsynk it can... I'll take a photo of the tab on the inverter and post it later, but basically off grid here, used to have an extension lead to the neighbout who was still on Eskom, but no longer and now, instead of me getting power from him, he is on the Aux port of my Sunsynk 5k and is getting power from us. He has power night and day, except, if the battery SoC should drop to 45%, then it will drop him, right now, battery is a 54%, the lowest value this morning and 641W surplus olar is going to the battery already, by now, all in consumption is 716W right now, we have boiled the ketlle, nuked some items in the microwave etc. already earlier.

Most mornings we would be anywhere from 58 to 64% SoC, when we get up, the neighbour has lost power once in the last 60-odd days, due to the 45% threshold being hit, due to cloudy weather for 3 consecutive days, with not enough power generated, it disappeared for him, probably around 02:30 and was back, once the battery had come back up to 50%, by 11:30 that same morning. Basically, Saturday the 2nd, battery only came up to 85% by 16:55 (cloudy since around 13:30), then Sunday all cloudy and battery peaked at 65% SoC around 17:30, the Monday morning the Aux got dropped and battery went all the way down to around 35% SoC, before still partially cloudy, by 09:00 the battery was starting to get a charge...

23 minutes ago, Kalahari Meerkat said:

Is it possible under any condition that SmartLoad can draw power from the batteries? (That is not something that I would want to happen.)

Ok, sorry can't find a USB C cable that has data + power on it right now, so can't post the picture, but...

The tab on the Sunsynk has:

• Gen Input
• Aux load output
• For microinverter input

Sine I have Aux load output selected, on the right hand side it has:

On Grid always on (unticked, since there is no grid)

2200W Solar Power (W) - has no meaning since:

Aux Load OFF Batt is set to 45% and Aux Load ON Batt is set to 50%, if these were 0, then, I guess it would only provide power if 2200W or more solar power was being produced, it could also mean 2200W of excess solar power being produced, not 100% sure of that.

'Essentials' would be anything wired to the inverter Load/UPS port; 'SmartLoad/Aux' would be anything wired to the Gen port; 'Non-Essentials' would be anything not directly wired to the inverter at all.

Non-Essentials hence needs grid to be powered up. In these grid-based scenarios, Non-Essentials would usually then work hand-in-hand with the supplied CT coil to get powered by the inverter (typically with excess capacity - depending on setup) using the same idea that regular grid-export uses: the Inverter just uses the Grid input as an output where necessary; with the CT coil preventing that export from leaving your premises by measuring demand and matching inverter supply (via the Grid port) to that demand; basically turning your house into the local 'grid'; hence the term 'Zero Export to CT' that gets used to describe it.

 

Hence in a fully-off-grid scenario, you won't use anything under Non-Essentials...

 

SmartLoad/Aux is then simply an extension of Load/UPS, separated by a switch/relay which the inverter turns off and on based on the parameters set on the SmartLoad/Aux page. Therefore, you're bound by the same maximum load that the Load port has; so a 3kW load on Load/UPS plus a 3kW load on Aux (6kW total) would exceed your 5kW rating and trip the inverter; whereas if that Aux load was a regular non-essential, that last 1kW would instead come from the grid without the inverter tripping.

 

In my case I've got both my geysers on Aux (in a 10kW [2 x 5-kW-inverter] parallel setup); but I still have to be careful that the timers they're connected through don't turn them on simultaneously - or I'll trip if the kitchen is busy at the same time.

 

As @Kalahari Meerkat explains, you can then set the battery thresholds to have the port - these 'Smart' loads - only turn on when you have spare capacity. You can't limit the power through the port, you can just decide when it must turn on by setting the battery on/off and Power thresholds.  So in @Kalahari Meerkat's example, his Aux port will turn off when his battery dips to/below 45%, and then turn back on when the battery rises 50% again.

Whatever the draw on that SmartLoad/Gen port is, is what will be drawn: there's no limiting from the inverter; hence keep an eye on your maximum Load + SmartLoad not exceeding 5kW.

 

13 hours ago, Niel Kotze said:

From what I understand (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong):
- The non-essential load according to Deye is wired into the Generator Port (a separate physical output on the inverter) and is referred to as Smart Load.
 

 

2 hours ago, Kalahari Meerkat said:

Aux Load OFF Batt is set to 45% and Aux Load ON Batt is set to 50%

 

18 minutes ago, JayMardern said:

'Essentials' would be anything wired to the inverter Load/UPS port; 'SmartLoad/Aux' would be anything wired to the Gen port; 'Non-Essentials' would be anything not directly wired to the inverter at all.

Non-Essentials hence needs grid to be powered up. In these grid-based scenarios, Non-Essentials would usually then work hand-in-hand with the supplied CT coil to get powered by the inverter (typically with excess capacity - depending on setup) using the same idea that regular grid-export uses: the Inverter just uses the Grid input as an output where necessary; with the CT coil preventing that export from leaving your premises by measuring demand and matching inverter supply (via the Grid port) to that demand; basically turning your house into the local 'grid'; hence the term 'Zero Export to CT' that gets used to describe it.

 

Hence in a fully-off-grid scenario, you won't use anything under Non-Essentials...

 

SmartLoad/Aux is then simply an extension of Load/UPS, separated by a switch/relay which the inverter turns off and on based on the parameters set on the SmartLoad/Aux page. Therefore, you're bound by the same maximum load that the Load port has; so a 3kW load on Load/UPS plus a 3kW load on Aux (6kW total) would exceed your 5kW rating and trip the inverter; whereas if that Aux load was a regular non-essential, that last 1kW would instead come from the grid without the inverter tripping.

 

In my case I've got both my geysers on Aux (in a 10kW [2 x 5-kW-inverter] parallel setup); but I still have to be careful that the timers they're connected through don't turn them on simultaneously - or I'll trip if the kitchen is busy at the same time.

 

As @Kalahari Meerkat explains, you can then set the battery thresholds to have the port - these 'Smart' loads - only turn on when you have spare capacity. You can't limit the power through the port, you can just decide when it must turn on by setting the battery on/off and Power thresholds.  So in @Kalahari Meerkat's example, his Aux port will turn off when his battery dips to/below 45%, and then turn back on when the battery rises 50% again.

Whatever the draw on that SmartLoad/Gen port is, is what will be drawn: there's no limiting from the inverter; hence keep an eye on your maximum Load + SmartLoad not exceeding 5kW.

 

 

 

Hi. Thank for the clarification.

"Essentials' would be anything wired to the inverter Load/UPS port; 'SmartLoad/Aux' would be anything wired to the Gen port; 'Non-Essentials' would be anything not directly wired to the inverter at all."

I incorrectly assumed that "essential load" is the Inverter Load/UPS port and "non-essential load" was the SmartLoad/Aux port.
It makes much more sense now that you pointed out 3 loads (Essential / SmartLoad / Non-essential)

As far as I'm aware is Sunsync and Deye essentially the same inverter with different software.
I'm not sure if the inverter will do what I expect of it.

Allow me to give a hypothetical scenario:
It is 10am and there is 3000W available power from the solar panels.
My computer and misc appliances draw 500W. At the moment without any SmartLoad, the 2500W surplus power goes to battery charging.
If I start using SmartLoad, will the battery charging still get priority (2500W) or will my geyser on SmartLoad draw 2000W leaving 500W for battery charging?

The goal is to prioritize battery charging.
I suppose that specifying a high battery SOC (somewhere in / around the 90%) will only allow SmartLoad to turn on once the battery SOC reached a reasonable level?
 

Charging/load prioritization will behave the same with Aux/SmartLoad is it does with your current UPS/Essential Loads - this idea should work as you expect:

27 minutes ago, Niel Kotze said:

The goal is to prioritize battery charging.
I suppose that specifying a high battery SOC (somewhere in / around the 90%) will only allow SmartLoad to turn on once the battery SOC reached a reasonable level?
 

So say if you set 85%-95% (avoid going too close to 100 since most batteries slow down charging as they approach 100%), SmartLoad won't draw until then; leaving you with a near-full battery always.

And then a side-benefit is that, say, there's only 1kW spare PV available (whereas you need 2kW for the geyser); that 1kW of spare capacity will go towards charging your battery to 95%, and then you'll still be able to heat your geyser in steps from 95% back down to 85% - despite not having enough PV to power it straight from PV.

Further to my previous reply:

"therefore, you're bound by the same maximum load that the Load port has; so a 3kW load on Load/UPS plus a 3kW load on Aux (6kW total) would exceed your 5kW rating and trip the inverter; whereas if that Aux load was a regular non-essential, that last 1kW would instead come from the grid without the inverter tripping."

Assuming the following parametesr:
- Batteries are fully charged.
- Base load on inverter is 500W.
- Geyser is drawing 2000W from SmartLoad.
- There is a total of 3000W power available from the solar panels

2500W (500W + 2000W) is within the threshold of the potential solar out. Both Load and SmartLoad is powered by solar.
I then turn on my kettle (which is connected to Load) it will push my Load to 2500W.
Total load will potentially become Load (2500W) + SmartLoad (2000)W : 4500W
This is more than the 3000W available from the solar panels.

What will happen?
Will the inverter turn off SmartLoad while Load is at 2500W and turn SmartLoad on again once the kettle switches off
or
Will the inverter leave SmartLoad on pushing total inverter load to 4500 and draw the power deficit from the batteries?

Edited March 11, 20242 yr by Niel Kotze

In my experience (at least with the settings I use), SmartLoad will draw from the batteries in this case (the same as regular Load does); and will only turn off if/when the battery drops below the Off threshold:

3 minutes ago, Niel Kotze said:

 
Will the inverter leave SmartLoad on pushing total inverter load to 4500 and draw the power deficit from the batteries?

 

 

10 minutes ago, JayMardern said:

In my experience (at least with the settings I use), SmartLoad will draw from the batteries in this case (the same as regular Load does); and will only turn off if/when the battery drops below the Off threshold:

 

 

Ah that makes sense. The same way how the battery provide the deficit power it PV output is too low.
Obviously if SmartLoad draws too much from the batteries, it will be turned off if the OFF battery SOC% is reached.

In my case with only running solar power, am I correct in saying that the "Power" wattage AND battery SOC% parameters need to be satisfied in order for SmartLoad to turn on? It is my understand that it is not an "Power OR SOC %" condition but a "Power AND SOC %" condition?

32 minutes ago, JayMardern said:

In my experience (at least with the settings I use), SmartLoad will draw from the batteries in this case (the same as regular Load does); and will only turn off if/when the battery drops below the Off threshold:

I think you meant :
SmartLoad will only turn off if/when the battery drops below the Off threshold OR PV output drops to below the "Power" value ?

23 minutes ago, Niel Kotze said:

Ah that makes sense. The same way how the battery provide the deficit power it PV output is too low.
Obviously if SmartLoad draws too much from the batteries, it will be turned off if the OFF battery SOC% is reached.

In my case with only running solar power, am I correct in saying that the "Power" wattage AND battery SOC% parameters need to be satisfied in order for SmartLoad to turn on? It is my understand that it is not an "Power OR SOC %" condition but a "Power AND SOC %" condition?

 

3 minutes ago, Niel Kotze said:

I think you meant :
SmartLoad will only turn off if/when the battery drops below the Off threshold OR PV output drops to below the "Power" value ?

I unfortunately can't confirm how 'Power' comes into play here (is it 'AND' or 'OR'? Is it 'Over-And-Above-Current-PV-Gen' or  'Total-Current-PV-Gen'? It it impacted by or independent to 'On Grid Always On'?)

I just use SOC's for this purpose in my setup - mainly since my Stove/Oven is also on Aux (it's a busy Aux!) and I want that operational at night (to a minimum SOC of course; to keep us covered for load shedding). Perhaps other members who've tried it out can let us know...

1 hour ago, JayMardern said:

 

I unfortunately can't confirm how 'Power' comes into play here (is it 'AND' or 'OR'? Is it 'Over-And-Above-Current-PV-Gen' or  'Total-Current-PV-Gen'? It it impacted by or independent to 'On Grid Always On'?)

I just use SOC's for this purpose in my setup - mainly since my Stove/Oven is also on Aux (it's a busy Aux!) and I want that operational at night (to a minimum SOC of course; to keep us covered for load shedding). Perhaps other members who've tried it out can let us know...

I don't know the interface of the Sunsync inverter and thus cannot comment.
On the Deye inverter, the inferface allows you to specify the "Power" - assuming that it is meant to be the available power level sufficient to handle the additional SmartLoad as well as the battery SOC %

22 hours ago, Niel Kotze said:

On the Deye inverter, the inferface allows you to specify the "Power" - assuming that it is meant to be the available power level sufficient to handle the additional

The power setting on the Sunsynk for this is the amount of Solar power produced in total, before SmartLoad Output is enabled, as far as I know... the On and Off percentages are there to prevent the battery to get discharged too much by the SmartLoad usage....

24 minutes ago, Kalahari Meerkat said:

The power setting on the Sunsynk for this is the amount of Solar power produced in total, before SmartLoad Output is enabled, as far as I know... the On and Off percentages are there to prevent the battery to get discharged too much by the SmartLoad usage....

This is what I initially thought but I've tested and it doesn't seem to work like that, at least not on my unit. Tested, with 2kw of PV production taking place and Battery SOC at 80%. I dropped 'Solar Power (W)' to 0 ; then set 'On Grid Always On' to Off ;  'Aux Load Off Batt' to 90 ; 'Aux Load On Batt' to 100 (this caused the Aux port to switch off as expected since Battery SOC was out of range.). Then I gradually increased the 'Solar Power (W)' Aux-screen setting from zero, in increments of 500W, up until it stopped me at 4500W (waiting the required 2 minutes between changes), and at no point did the port switch back on. I then tested dropping 'Aux Load Off Batt' down to 70 (below current SOC which was still 85%,) whilst leaving 'Aux Load On Batt' at 90 (so now battery SOC was between the range but below the turn-on percentage) - and repeated the experiment; but once again, it stayed off.

When I dropped 'Aux Load On Batt' down to the original 50% value with Solar Power still set to 4500W, it powered on despite the fact Solar Production was still at only 2kW.

In my case I don't need this field, but it would be great to understand how it actually works. Open to suggestions if anyone has other ideas for me test!

29 minutes ago, JayMardern said:

When I dropped 'Aux Load On Batt' down to the original 50% value with Solar Power still set to 4500W, it powered on despite the fact Solar Production was still at only 2kW.

Ok, so what you are saying is, the battery takes precedence and the solar value may have no impact, certainly here overnight with 0 Solar power, as long as the battery SoC is above the 45% off value, the Aux port keeps on going and if it should go to 45% or lower, then the Aux port will be off and will only come back on, once the battery SoC gets to 50% or higher... so, now I can't think of what the heck the solar value may be for...

2 hours ago, Kalahari Meerkat said:

The power setting on the Sunsynk for this is the amount of Solar power produced in total, before SmartLoad Output is enabled, as far as I know... the On and Off percentages are there to prevent the battery to get discharged too much by the SmartLoad usage....

That is my understanding as well.
Setting a to low "Power" value will cause the deficit to be drawn from the batteries which will drain them very quickly.
I will probably use my SmartLoad on 95% ON and 90% OFF.

1 hour ago, Kalahari Meerkat said:

Ok, so what you are saying is, the battery takes precedence and the solar value may have no impact, certainly here overnight with 0 Solar power, as long as the battery SoC is above the 45% off value, the Aux port keeps on going and if it should go to 45% or lower, then the Aux port will be off and will only come back on, once the battery SoC gets to 50% or higher... so, now I can't think of what the heck the solar value may be for...

It is my understanding that the "Power" setting is to ensure that there is enough solar output to minimize battery used when SmartLoad is active.

27 minutes ago, Niel Kotze said:

It is my understanding that the "Power" setting is to ensure that there is enough solar output to minimize battery used when SmartLoad is active.

When you have "On Grid Always On" the "Power" and Battery % settings are ignored. With "On Grid Always On" switched OFF, then if the PV produces above the "Power" setting and the battery is between the specified %, the Smart Load Switches ON.

1 minute ago, PowerUser said:

When you have "On Grid Always On" the "Power" and Battery % settings are ignored. With "On Grid Always On" switched OFF, then if the PV produces above the "Power" setting and the battery is between the specified %, the Smart Load Switches ON.

Yeah I was expecting it to work like this as well, but if you check my post above it didn't when I tested earlier today: Smart Load was switching on/off based only on Battery % - with Solar Power (W) getting totally ignored. I'm running FW E426 - MCU:3382-1515 on a 5kW model, could this have changed on different firmware perhaps? (What FW are you getting the behavior you describe upon?)

It doesn't really matter for me in practice since a side-effect of this working as you describe would be that with a value specified, I wouldn't be able to use my Stove/Oven - also on Aux - at night - so just using Battery Percentages works great my side - but I'd still love to at least understand this feature 🙂

 

10 minutes ago, JayMardern said:

Yeah I was expecting it to work like this as well, but if you check my post above it didn't when I tested earlier today: Smart Load was switching on/off based only on Battery % - with Solar Power (W) getting totally ignored. I'm running FW E426 - MCU:3382-1515 on a 5kW model, could this have changed on different firmware perhaps? (What FW are you getting the behavior you describe upon?)

It doesn't really matter for me in practice since a side-effect of this working as you describe would be that with a value specified, I wouldn't be able to use my Stove/Oven - also on Aux - at night - so just using Battery Percentages works great my side - but I'd still love to at least understand this feature 🙂

 

I'm currently on MCU: 3384-0513 E433 on my SunSynk 5kW and the Smart Load works as expected. I didn't have such issues with older firmware either. I've been running my geyser on the Smart Load for over an year and it switches on and off as expected. The only bug I have noticed, if Eskom is OFF and the battery is ABOVE the upper limit %, the Smart Load comes ON regardless of the PV power. Haven't had time to follow up on that bug with SunSynk support yet. 

5 minutes ago, PowerUser said:

I'm currently on MCU: 3384-0513 E433 on my SunSynk 5kW and the Smart Load works as expected. I didn't have such issues with older firmware either. I've been running my geyser on the Smart Load for over an year and it switches on and off as expected. The only bug I have noticed, if Eskom is OFF and the battery is ABOVE the upper limit %, the Smart Load comes ON regardless of the PV power. Haven't had time to follow up on that bug with SunSynk support yet. 

I could contact support (I'd skip Sunsynk and go straight to Deye), but I've got a feeling it might be because I'm running two inverters in parallel.  Each has it's own set of panels connected to each of the (combined 4) MPPTs - and thus each inverter may generate different Solar Power values at a given time. And since the Aux output needs to be synchronized (since the port is common/connected-in-parallel between both inverters), the inverters can't rely on the Solar Power value since it won't be the same between the two units...

For example today, the Master inverter produced 18.4kWh of PV so far, whilst Slave only produced 17.5kWh. Battery Percentage, on the other hand is always going to match between them so that makes it a more reliable parameter in multi-inverter setup.

6 minutes ago, JayMardern said:

I could contact support (I'd skip Sunsynk and go straight to Deye), but I've got a feeling it might be because I'm running two inverters in parallel.  Each has it's own set of panels connected to each of the (combined 4) MPPTs - and thus each inverter may generate different Solar Power values at a given time. And since the Aux output needs to be synchronized (since the port is common/connected-in-parallel between both inverters), the inverters can't rely on the Solar Power value since it won't be the same between the two units...

For example today, the Master inverter produced 18.4kWh of PV so far, whilst Slave only produced 17.5kWh. Battery Percentage, on the other hand is always going to match between them so that makes it a more reliable parameter in multi-inverter setup.

Yes, your setup is more complicated. But I think, you should contact Deye support anyway and see what they say about the Smart Load when inverters are in parallel.

1 minute ago, PowerUser said:

Yes, your setup is more complicated. But I think, you should contact Deye support anyway and see what they say about the Smart Load when inverters are in parallel.

I actually did before I pulled the trigger but there wasn't mention of any limitations like this:

Technically the comms between the inverters could share combined PV for making a call on activating the port so I'd imagine it would be possible using firmware; though perhaps it adds complexity/test-cases that make it not worth-it. When I get a moment I'll send them a query on this field in particular and see; just for the sake of curiosity (since my use-case doesn't need it - we cook on Aux at night!)

2 hours ago, JayMardern said:

I'm running FW E426 - MCU:3382-1515 on a 5kW model, could this have changed on different firmware perhaps? (What FW are you getting the behavior you describe upon?)

Where do you see the Firmware version ? In which menu should I look?

15 hours ago, PowerUser said:

the battery is ABOVE the upper limit %, the Smart Load comes ON regardless of the PV power

and that is what I wrote, the PV setting seems to have zero impact... I have no grid, so that isn't selected in my case...