Hi all,

I recently cleaned my panels with water and a squeegee.

I noticed that these marks do no go away, and is causing heavy dirt build up due to lack of centre supports on the panels.

Here is a side picture showing the lack of support in the centre of the panels

I cleaned the panels in the end of November, had to clean them again yesterday since the accumulation in those spots is very hectic and seems to put the panels in bypass mode for those rows of cells.

here is a video

https://photos.app.goo.gl/QxJgjDmDBUVqC7Dd7

Here is some data for the difference observed, both days 26°C outside as per weather station. Y-PVT = yesterday

23% difference when cleaned.

My question ultimately is what now?

Request new panels and proper mounting? or request just proper mounting?

they are 575W Longi HiMO 6 - LR5-72HTH575M panels installed May 2024.

I am however printing water draining clips galore in PETG.

Regards

Edited January 25Jan 25 by ZS1SCI
model number

Just adding more pics for reference

Every morning dew puddle forms on each panel during summer months.

This panel was cleaned yesterday

Also cleaned yesterday

18 minutes ago, ZS1SCI said:

Request new panels and proper mounting? or request just proper mounting?

The current mounting looks as if the panels are only supported on the top and bottom. It also looks as if panels are touching each other on the sides... Your warranty is already voided.

The panel manufacturer will have a requirement on where the supports should be, typically 25% from the top and bottom on the long sides. They also probably don't allow for installing the panels flat. I would suggest putting each panel at a slight inclination.

4 minutes ago, frivan said:

The current mounting looks as if the panels are only supported on the top and bottom. It also looks as if panels are touching each other on the sides... Your warranty is already voided.

The panel manufacturer will have a requirement on where the supports should be, typically 25% from the top and bottom on the long sides. They also probably don't allow for installing the panels flat. I would suggest putting each panel at a slight inclination.

They are at a 23° angle and not flat.

Agreed the manufacturer states it needs to be properly supported, which these are not.


I am not the installer, I need to get him to fix his work, so that's why I ask here.

I'm also trying to determine what option to take, the system is insured, so if the installer was at fault the insurance company can pursue them.

regards

Edited January 25Jan 25 by ZS1SCI
lang

35 minutes ago, ZS1SCI said:

One could think that your installation is like the bottom right layout but the fact that the rails don't run through, means that the solar panels are buckling with heat expansion.

37 minutes ago, ZS1SCI said:

They are at a 23° angle and not flat.

On a 6m IBR that means the one side is 2.3m higher than the other?

Right...

2.9° not 23°.

Edited January 25Jan 25 by ZS1SCI

30 minutes ago, ZS1SCI said:

2.9°

AI says you need at least 10 degrees. You could look at east-west mounting structures.

Yeah 2.9 degrees is probably to flat to clear the water over the aluminum edges?

3 hours ago, ZS1SCI said:

Hi all,

I recently cleaned my panels with water and a squeegee.

I noticed that these marks do no go away, and is causing heavy dirt build up due to lack of centre supports on the panels.

Here is a side picture showing the lack of support in the centre of the panels

I cleaned the panels in the end of November, had to clean them again yesterday since the accumulation in those spots is very hectic and seems to put the panels in bypass mode for those rows of cells.

here is a video

https://photos.app.goo.gl/QxJgjDmDBUVqC7Dd7

Here is some data for the difference observed, both days 26°C outside as per weather station. Y-PVT = yesterday

23% difference when cleaned.

My question ultimately is what now?

Request new panels and proper mounting? or request just proper mounting?

they are 575W Longi HiMO 6 - LR5-72HTH575M panels installed May 2024.

I am however printing water draining clips galore in PETG.

Regards

Want to give vinegar a try on the spots? Wet a rag full of vinegar see if it helps?

14 minutes ago, Stefan Cornelissen said:

Want to give vinegar a try on the spots? Wet a rag full of vinegar see if it helps?

Those panels are cooked , why would you rub them with vinegar haha ? water and dirt is under the glass layer . Solar panels have a anti reflective layer that is not acid /detergent friendly btw . Those panels need to be replaced and the new ones need middle support IMO.

I have used only water, and squeegee before.

I do not plan on using vinegar or any detergent tbh.

Regarding the angle of the panels, yes it is low, my house has an asbestos roof, so cannot place it elsewhere.

the water draining clips work fine for this purpose, the installer needs to return and fix the brackets and spacings firstly, which would allow proper installation of the draining clips.

Whether it needs replacement is why I started this thread, and ask for insights on the water ingress, which is already below the glass surface.

ISO alcohol was used since it is a good solvent that evaporates quickly enough and normally cuts through most stains on a glass surface.

The curved nature of the ingress spots is due to the bend in the middle of the panel from lack of support, and the water not being able to drain properly due to my roofs low angle.

Question 1: will it catch fire? due to short circuit etc?

Question 2: If the railings where fixed adding support and the draining clips attached, would this still be a problem that requires attention?

Question 3: Shall I pursue replacement of my 16 panels since they all have these marks considering installer error caused it?

I'd appreciate help with these questions, the installer is coming over in the week so I'd appreciate feedback or concerns that I can relay to him.

Kind Regards

Edited January 25Jan 25 by ZS1SCI

20 minutes ago, ZS1SCI said:

Question 1: will it catch fire? due to short circuit etc?

Question 2: If the railings where fixed adding support and the draining clips attached, would this still be a problem that requires attention?

Question 3: Shall I pursue replacement of my 16 panels since they all have these marks considering installer error caused it?

1. Fire would probably result if MC4 connectors are touching the roof. Water would probably the damage the panels but I don't see it starting a fire.

2. Yes, draining clips is a plaster on a broken leg. Fix the panels at 10 degrees or more.

3. Yes, have the panels replaced.

Stupid question.

Can't you lift the roof structure to give more angle?

11 hours ago, Virwat said:

Stupid question.

Can't you lift the roof structure to give more angle?

Hi, I think it might just be easier to make the new rails higher on one side than lift the IBR roof as a whole.

Edited January 26Jan 26 by ZS1SCI

13 hours ago, Virwat said:

Can't you lift the roof structure to give more angle?

Yeah, something like this - https://livestainable.co.za/products/kd-solar-13-25-degrees-adjustable-v-frame-bracket-for-portrait-mounting?variant=43682114863284&country=ZA&currency=ZAR&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20262366876&gclid=Cj0KCQiAm9fLBhCQARIsAJoNOcv3a8wtwJPxFgV1ajCaRBp18HIFnhZiqFcMXpBTcdkQMxvwbMRHPMMaAhl6EALw_wcB

52 minutes ago, Demo said:

Yeah, something like this - https://livestainable.co.za/products/kd-solar-13-25-degrees-adjustable-v-frame-bracket-for-portrait-mounting?variant=43682114863284&country=ZA&currency=ZAR&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=20262366876&gclid=Cj0KCQiAm9fLBhCQARIsAJoNOcv3a8wtwJPxFgV1ajCaRBp18HIFnhZiqFcMXpBTcdkQMxvwbMRHPMMaAhl6EALw_wcB

Not worth fitting these mounts at all. My panels are mounted with a 10 degree tilt facing SW. Not an ideal orientation but thats how the garage roofs are slopped. They are almost flat basically. I dont have water ingress and am off-grid. He would need 2 of those supports that cost as much as 1 Panel. Waste of money in my opinion. I am yet to see any datasheet say mounting them flat or at a slight angle with damage the structure of the panel.

I think they were just not mounted properly (too close to the end as one user mentioned) and the glass cracked/was defective from the get go. Its not the angle/slope. Do you guys know how hot the surface of a panel gets? After rain the water evaporates very quickly. Water sitting on the panel for the night won't do anything to them.

Thats just my 2 cents. I dont even have water draining clips and the panels are perfectly fine. Just on the edge there can be some dirt accumulation if its a quick rain but it always gets cleaned off if it rains for at least 15 minutes properly.

Tilt mounts cost 1.1k excluding the bolts etc. to fit on the roof. A new panel costs 1.1k. Just add more panels. Even if real estate is a problem, he would need to space the panels enough to avoid shading them with the tilt. Not worth it to me.

Edited January 26Jan 26 by Denns

Why I asked, it looks like 10 panels in landscape mode (2 rows, of 5)

So, this lot must be mounted on one frame at an angle.

He can't mount each panel at an angle separately because of shading from one panel onto another.

17 hours ago, frivan said:

One could think that your installation is like the bottom right layout but the fact that the rails don't run through, means that the solar panels are buckling with heat expansion.

On a 6m IBR that means the one side is 2.3m higher than the other?

I think this is it. My rails run right through. His arent from the pictures. I suspect the installer didnt want to spend on the railing and took shortcuts cutting small pieces and just supports on the ends. And it looks like his panels are being supported on the short length of the panels. Mine are supported along the long edge with the rail going right through.

And the fact that the panels are mounted with the edges touching, I cant imagine that is good with heat not being able to escape anywhere. There is at least 10cm (I can stick my hand under the panels) between the panel and the corrugated roof. And there is a gap between each of the panels along the rail so there is plenty of ventilation between the panels. 

I can see why the installer would have gone cheap, it cost me a bit over 3k to buy the rails and another 2k for the corrugated mounting brackets when I did mine. I could have saved 2k easily by doing it the way the installer did his but it would not be structurally sound for the panels.

The slope of the panels has little to do with it in my opinion.

A simular "short" rail I came across when a friend was complaining about a knocking sound from his roof in stronger winds. And a CoC was issued like this. What was even worse is the roof attachment method.

Needless to say, that register electrician won't be used again.

Jeesh!!

What a show piece of excellent craftmanship!

Look, even the cable already got a knot to tie it to the rail.🤣

Hi there so if we look at the following illustrations

then the next page

That would mean the only correct installation method for these panels, is the long frame as per 1st image mid left.

All other options are not supported.

This is going to be a fun conversation...

Thanks for everyone's inputs so far !

Nou moet ek gaan baklei met n bra :/

Eish

29 minutes ago, ZS1SCI said:

Nou moet ek gaan baklei met n bra :/

Moer hom!

But in all honesty, this installer doesn't seem to care about right, wrong or OEM specifications. Tell him to replace or get reported.

Just an update, LONGI rejected the installers warranty claim.(no surprise)

Installer is shifting the blame to us, saying we wanted cost saving brackets.

I have filed a consumer goods complaint against the installer at CGSO online, with all the evidence and correspondence.

Anywhere else I can report?

27 minutes ago, ZS1SCI said:

Just an update, LONGI rejected the installers warranty claim.(no surprise)

Installer is shifting the blame to us, saying we wanted cost saving brackets.

I have filed a consumer goods complaint against the installer at CGSO online, with all the evidence and correspondence.

Anywhere else I can report?

Does he have evidence that you wanted a cheap method for supporting the panel, and did he raise the problems associated with that?

3 hours ago, Denns said:

Does he have evidence that you wanted a cheap method for supporting the panel, and did he raise the problems associated with that?

He quoted twice, rails and IBR truncated brackets, no where did he communicate the problem(non OEM compliance) with the cheaper solution.

We asked for a cheaper quote which he provided.