Hi all. 

I thought it would be interesting to ask the question here on how old is your system. How long have you had it for? Did you have to replace / upgrade anything. Has it paid itself off yet? Do you have any regrets. What is the thing you learnt most and what 2 or 3 biggest pieces of advice would you give. 

Yours in renewable energy 

Jason

It's 6 years old. But it is a bit like that guy who had an axe he's used for 30 years, he's only replaced the head 3 times and the handle 5 times 🙂

1. Started out with a Multiplus Compact, 1600VA, 24V 100Ah battery, 300Wp of PV modules. ridiculously small in other words.

2. Added another PV module for 450Wp.

3. About 6 months in, upgraded battery bank from 100Ah to 245Ah. Second hand Trojans.

4. In 2014, upgraded PV from 450W to 600W.

5. Added another 300Wp PV, split the arrays into two arrays facing North, total 900Wp now. After this I could not find more of the 150W modules my system used and piecewise expansion stopped.

6. Microcare MPPT stopped working. MCU was replaced. It blew up shortly afterwards (on the day it was reinstalled!). I replaced it with a Victron 150/70. This was a BIG unplanned expense at the time.

7. Around 2015 the Trojans were going bad. Got hold of secondhand Victron AGMs. 200Ah.

8. Added 600Wp of PV pointing North-West. Total now 1.5kWp. PV now technically too large for battery, but because it points in different directions I got away with it.

9. October 2017, upgraded batteries to 300Ah LFP. Added another 300Wp module to the NW array, total 1.8KWp.

10. Somewhere in 2018: Replaced the 1600VA Multi with a 3KVA.

11. March 2019, redid one of the original frames (steel replaced with aluminium, new PV modules), total now around 2.5kWp.

Planned for later this year, redo another one of the old frames and make enough space for all the smaller PV modules I bought before 2014. That will make my array 2.8kWp. Doing this merely for neatness.

I also redid the sub-DB on the inverter output three times as I learned more about how to do it properly. I had only one plug circuit on backup. In 2016 I did the last one. This time I actually hired an electrician to do a proper split on my DB.

The only thing I regret is the Microcare MPPT. Of course a lot of money got wasted on batteries as well, but since I worked from home and the backup was worth it's weight in gold (lead?), I don't regret that.

There is one thing I maybe regret a little bit. The placement of the Trojans too close to a copper pipe. Ate right through it, had to chop up the floor and fix it!

Thanks Plonskter.

to me it sounds like you were in pioneering mode when you started out right? your experience defiantly adds values to my thoughts. I think the lesson I'm learning from you is, talk to as many people as possible who have experience in solar before starting out.

38 minutes ago, jasonvanwyk said:

pioneering mode

Not quite. I have some solar experience going back to 1988 on the farm. Well okay, I was very very young at that time (primary school!), but around 1992 (still in school!) I got involved in electronics and built my first solar battery regulator. I ended up building three of those, one for another farmer. That system paid for itself (in Diesel money) in about a decade. It was that expensive back then.

So by 2008 when the first load shedding hit, the solution wasn't new... it was a childhood memory. Yet, it was just too expensive.

Then the price of PV modules halved in 2012, right around the time our Indian friends made plans to steal a coal mine and Eskom was asking for 25% increases three years in a row. I was working from home (because the 2008 economic meltdown caused a company scale-down that got rid of the central office) and load shedding would have killed me financially. I had around 25k to work with. I bought the largest system I could at the time, made my own steel frames for the PV modules, and did the install myself.

Edited April 12, 20197 yr by plonkster

50 minutes ago, plonkster said:

Not quite. I have some solar experience going back to 1988 on the farm. Well okay, I was very very young at that time (primary school!), but around 1992 (still in school!) I got involved in electronics and built my first solar battery regulator. I ended up building three of those, one for another farmer. That system paid for itself (in Diesel money) in about a decade. It was that expensive back then.

So by 2008 when the first load shedding hit, the solution wasn't new... it was a childhood memory. Yet, it was just too expensive.

Then the price of PV modules halved in 2012, right around the time our Indian friends made plans to steal a coal mine and Eskom was asking for 25% increases three years in a row. I was working from home (because the 2008 economic meltdown caused a company scale-down that got rid of the central office) and load shedding would have killed me financially. I had around 25k to work with. I bought the largest system I could at the time, made my own steel frames for the PV modules, and did the install myself.

i'm starting to realize that the options are unlimited when people get creative

Small microcare grid-tied inverter installed 4 yrs ago. Six months later I added another panel to boost production. No batteries. Didn't think it was worth the spend, but as Eskom begins to implode, the plans for Stage2 are taking shape. Mostly hassle-free, except thanks to my installer who neglected to put in a DC surge protector, some repairs were needed recently. That aside, in theory it should be halfway paid off but thanks to Eskom's massive increases my payback period  is now reduced. In fact I smile and whistle everytime they want to raise power prices. But grid-tie is boring. The thing just sits and clicks a bit and makes power all day and at the end of the month my bill is low.

I must admit - I do get a kick out off not having to subsidize Eskom's nasty habits

4 hours ago, jasonvanwyk said:

Hi all. 

I thought it would be interesting to ask the question here on how old is your system. How long have you had it for? Did you have to replace / upgrade anything. Has it paid itself off yet? Do you have any regrets. What is the thing you learnt most and what 2 or 3 biggest pieces of advice would you give. 

Yours in renewable energy 

Jason

Well mine is not yet a week old 😉

It definitely did not pay for itself, but it did start.  And happily nothing broke yet.

I suppose as an software geek interested in electronics I thought that high current electricity was so simple.  I have discovered that grid-scale electricity distribution and just the challenges of high power makes this area a lot more complicated and interesting than I thought.

I don’t think I regret anything; I definitely did waste some money along the way - school fees I’d call it - but the journey was worth it.

Not sure I’m qualified to give advice, except maybe:

• go patiently and take the time to understand your real requirements.  
• it costs a lot lot more to be off-grid so unless you really need that start with supplying just some of your requirements, or grid tie and just offset some of your load
• Be safe: fuse batteries, do a safe mains install.

Thanks Elbow

My system is about 3 weeks old now - and I can relate to all of what you are saying. I've also only just begun to realize what the challenges are how much more there is to going off-grid.

One of my biggest surprises was realizing just how much energy i was wasting, and how relativity simple it is to cut back on wastage.

So far my three biggest lessons have been:

1. Ask yourself why you want to do this. (save money, avoid the inconvenience of load shedding / power outages, be a better steward of the planet's resources, future proof yourself - or all of the above).
2. Educate oneself about electricity and energy as a whole, make sure you understand how energy and electricity work, and how its generated/distributed/transferred, and most importantly make sure your wife understands too! if you don't the system you put in might not deliver what you expected it to. Learn about power and watts and KWh - learn about how much energy your appliances actually use. Take the time to compute your energy needs. (don't be lazy about this) see where you can cut-back on your usage before you put your solar system in. You cant measure what you cant see, and you do't know what you're using until you see it - learn how to measure you energy usage. there's so much knowledge in info out there and its so easily accessible if you just take the time to look for it. 
3. Definitely put a solar geyser in if you can. Even better put 2 in, connected in series. 

I am on a farm totally off grid and have been for almost 4 years. I  have no Eskom connection and do not own a generator. 

I knew I would probably mess up my first battery bank so I have the following as my first investment: 

8 x T105 (6v 225AH) - the good old Golf cart ones

6 x 270 watt panels (some renosol and 2 Canadian that were only added recently)

1 x 5KVa (4000w) Mecer Axpert inverter

I have not replaced or had to fix anything (very grateful) - just added the two extra panels last year on my installers recommendation and the system has served me really well. It is only the last while with a lot of overcast weather and some extra loads with us running a ministry here that it has started to show signs of aging. But I have also not taken as good care of the batteries as I could have - a combination of financial constraints and ignorance (which I am now trying to fix). 

I regret not having learnt more myself and gotten a BMV and a balancer (I am learning so much on this site) as I think this could have helped the batteries stay in better condition for longer. Having said that it is amazing that these batteries have outlasted my ignorance. I have a gas geyser and stove but run a fridge, computer, 1.5KW borehole pump, pressure pump, tv, laser printer etc. all off the system and even a hair dryer on sunny days. 

I know that the Axpert inverter and the T105's are not the best for compatibility but with the budget constraints I had, this was the best option I believe. It has cost me around R45 000 for the equipment, installation and maintenance over the 4 years so it has definitely paid itself off already. 

But I think I am going to have to replace my main storage system soon but perhaps still use the T105's in the tents we hope to put up with DC power. 

Any recommendations welcome? 

4 years off grid. I replaced batteries recently but otherwise, best decision I made.

Hannes, get a generator. Just for practicalities sake. If you have  a week of dense clouds, then what? If some component of your system fails then what? 

I bought an ancient lister genset and spent some time figuring it out but it will run on 1 litre of diesel  per hour, or any other oil that you have handy, all day long.

Edited April 12, 20197 yr by DeepBass9

Started researching solar in 2008 when I wanted to re-charge the UPS batteries with solar panels - cost was prohibitive.

2012 went off-grid with own design and built solar powered UPS.
Lots of upgrades over the years, sold ALL end of 2018, went grid tied. Best move EVER!

thanks all for sharing with me. It helps to hear what others have done/are doing. It also gives me confidence that i made the right move.

19 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

went grid tied. Best move EVER!

Is there a difference between a grid tied inverter and a hybrid inverter. How would I describe my system. I can use grid when and if i want or need to, but most using PV and batteries.

5 hours ago, jasonvanwyk said:

Is there a difference between a grid tied inverter and a hybrid inverter.

Yes. Grid tied inverter goes off when Eskom goes off.
Hybrid grid tied inverter also disconnects from Eskom, same as a grid tied inverter BUT during Eskom downtime a Hybrid inverter keeps the always on loads powered via either panels and/or batteries. 

thanks again TTT. I just was nt sure how to describe my system - I guess its hybrid grid tied then👍

Jason, your system would be an off-grid UPS system with those inverters. You have an AC input which allows your system to switch fully to grid and to charge battery but that would not make it grid tied (although some people would like to think so). A grid-tie system is synchronised with grid and allows it to share the load with the grid simultaneously, your system is either servicing loads via solar/batt or grid, it cannot share a load simultaneously. A hybrid would be a combination of your system and a grid-tie system as TTT explained above. 

5 minutes ago, PeterP said:

A grid-tie system is synchronised with grid and allows it to share the load with the grid simultaneously

It allows us to do things like this:

I have an inverter that can feed 2.4kw of power into the grid (or run 3kva peaks if the grid is out). My tumble dryer is running and that's a nice 2.2kw beast. I also have a few other loads about. In this picture I am taking 450W from the grid, 850W from the batteries and 1700W from PV and mixing it together to power my loads. I pay the grid for 450W.

Now if I was using a non-hybrid inverter, I would probably have left the tumble dryer on the grid side because it is just too large to run from the inverter. I'd be paying the grid for 2200W, and powering 350W with solar.

I can do the above even at night, mixing grid and battery power.

If I wanted to power these large loads without a hybrid inverter, I would have to install a much larger inverter. That has downsides too, a larger inverter has a bigger no-load draw, so you lose more battery capacity over night. Also, this is a higher quality inverter even if it is a little smaller.

The majority of the loads in a house is use less than 1kw of power, and because this can tie with the grid it can offset all of them PLUS a large portion of the larger loads (geyser, stove, etc).

1 hour ago, plonkster said:

It allows us to do things like this:

I have an inverter that can feed 2.4kw of power into the grid (or run 3kva peaks if the grid is out). My tumble dryer is running and that's a nice 2.2kw beast. I also have a few other loads about. In this picture I am taking 450W from the grid, 850W from the batteries and 1700W from PV and mixing it together to power my loads. I pay the grid for 450W.

Now if I was using a non-hybrid inverter, I would probably have left the tumble dryer on the grid side because it is just too large to run from the inverter. I'd be paying the grid for 2200W, and powering 350W with solar.

I can do the above even at night, mixing grid and battery power.

If I wanted to power these large loads without a hybrid inverter, I would have to install a much larger inverter. That has downsides too, a larger inverter has a bigger no-load draw, so you lose more battery capacity over night. Also, this is a higher quality inverter even if it is a little smaller.

The majority of the loads in a house is use less than 1kw of power, and because this can tie with the grid it can offset all of them PLUS a large portion of the larger loads (geyser, stove, etc).

This is very cool... making me re-think my solar set-up

6 hours ago, jasonvanwyk said:

This is very cool... making me re-think my solar set-up

Makes me want to ask: How else do you do it if not like Plonksters picture? 😜

Save money from the 1st watt in the morning till the last watt at sunset. 

8 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Makes me want to ask: How else do you do it if not like Plonksters picture? 😜

Save money from the 1st watt in the morning till the last watt at sunset. 

More battery - then your system performs like this......This screenshot from this morning is an off-grid/UPS system like Jasons. 80% off-grid over life-time and over R40K saved in less than two years. Hybrid system like Plonksters functions very nicely but ROI on system shown here will generally be better.

10 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Makes me want to ask: How else do you do it if not like Plonksters picture? 😜

Save money from the 1st watt in the morning till the last watt at sunset. 

😁 I'm going to figure out how to get a cool picture of my system like yours, then I'm going to post it back here for opinions🤦‍♂️🤣

1 hour ago, PeterP said:

More battery

Yup, of course if you can make the battery big enough and you don't have to go back to the grid for the shortfall, then there is no reason to mix anything and the use case for a hybrid is moot. But... batteries costs money, and generally a unit stored in a battery and taken out again costs as much (or more) as one bought from the grid. I don't know what the future holds, and I do know that if you leave opportunity cost out of it you can beat the grid in some places, but overall I still think a hybrid wins the race.

3 minutes ago, plonkster said:

But... batteries costs money

And an off grid inverter has to be rated for peak loads, the hybrid grid-tied system also has this convenience.

6 minutes ago, plonkster said:

if you can make the battery big enough

I must say, quoting myself... that phrase reminds me of the scene in BTTF3 with the steam engine... if you had a straight track with a level grade, were hauling no cars, and you could make the fire hot enough (and I mean hotter than the blazes of hell and damnation)... then yes...