June 30, 20206 yr I have a question regarding the inside fans of 2 Axperts in parallel. The one is an older model (in use for about 5 years). The older one's fans is not running (continuously) - I said continuously because this morning I thought I saw them running for a short period, but I'm not sure. I noticed about two days ago that they are not running/turning. I do have a 150 x 150 mm fan (like a radiator fan of a quad bike) on the side of this older Axpert which blows over my Raspberry Pi first and then onto or rather into the holes of the older Axpert. This fan is thermostatically controlled (I set it on 18 degr C). The new Axpert's (which is mounted on the right hand side of the older one and therefore not that much exposed to the big fan) fans are running continuously. My question is; are the inside fans thermostatically controlled and therefore not switching on because I kept the temperature of the inverter low with the outside big fan OR is there a problem (because the fans of the other inverter is running continuously) I just want to mention, I did put a load of 2.4w on them to see if it is because there was no load on them - but no difference (the fans on the older inverter didn't start). Also, without any load the older inverter shows a reading never above 80w while the newer inverter always above 105w. As I'm new to the application of 2 Axperts in parallel, in partnership with Lithium Iron (Pylontech) technology, I really need help and advice. Thank you very much.
July 1, 20206 yr 7 hours ago, Cassie said: I just want to mention, I did put a load of 2.4w on them to see if it is because there was no load on them - but no difference (the fans on the older inverter didn't start). Is that 2.4 kW total, or 2.4 kW per inverter (so 4.8 kW total)? My guess is that it's total, so each only saw 1200 W, which is under the point where the fan speed exceeds 30%. For the older models, I can't recall, but I think they didn't switch on until the load dictated 30% speed. 30% speed is barely ticking over, very quiet; in the day you have to check with a torch to see if the blades are turning. Most Axpert models' fans seem to run almost entirely on load (including charging load). As a point of interest, what are the firmware versions of the two machines you have paralleled? It seems that you might have stumbled on to a new successful pairing that we don't know about as yet.
July 2, 20206 yr Author On 2020/07/01 at 4:45 AM, Coulomb said: Is that 2.4 kW total, or 2.4 kW per inverter (so 4.8 kW total)? My guess is that it's total, so each only saw 1200 W, which is under the point where the fan speed exceeds 30%. For the older models, I can't recall, but I think they didn't switch on until the load dictated 30% speed. 30% speed is barely ticking over, very quiet; in the day you have to check with a torch to see if the blades are turning. Most Axpert models' fans seem to run almost entirely on load (including charging load). As a point of interest, what are the firmware versions of the two machines you have paralleled? It seems that you might have stumbled on to a new successful pairing that we don't know about as yet. That is 2.4kW total. I've actually inspired myself to get serious about the viewing of the fans of the older inverter and eventually established that they do turn (although not continuously). This enabled me to sleep well the last 3 days, worries are over. I usually worried my "projects" into being successful before I stumbled onto the stage to receive the completed product(s) Lol! OK seriously where do I see or can I get the firmware version. Is there a history of unsuccessful pairings of Axpert inverters? Edited July 2, 20206 yr by Cassie Had to add info.
July 3, 20206 yr 10 hours ago, Cassie said: Is there a history of unsuccessful pairings of Axpert inverters? There are some weirdnesses, to be sure. See parallel compatibility of various firmware versions.
July 3, 20206 yr Author 14 hours ago, Coulomb said: There are some weirdnesses, to be sure. See parallel compatibility of various firmware versions. I'm a bit confused, where do I see these firmware numbers (72.70c etc.) I checked on the labels but don't see anything on them. I include the labels of the 2 inverters below.
July 3, 20206 yr Author This is thee is the second one (the newer one) Edited July 3, 20206 yr by Cassie trying the rotate the photo
July 3, 20206 yr 3 hours ago, Cassie said: where do I see these firmware numbers (72.70c etc.) It's not on a label. If you have access to the machine, just use the up button till you see a display starting with LC1, LF1, or U1. Then the rest has the version number, e.g. 72 and 70C means main firmware version 72.70c. If you only have Watchpower, somewhere near the bottom left of an early screen has the firmware version. But that won't distinguish between say 72.70c and 72.70, as the protocol doesn't allow letters or even a fifth digit.
July 4, 20206 yr Author 19 hours ago, Coulomb said: It's not on a label. If you have access to the machine, just use the up button till you see a display starting with LC1, LF1, or U1. Then the rest has the version number, e.g. 72 and 70C means main firmware version 72.70c. This is very interesting, both inverters have the same firmware namely U1 52.30 although I bought them 6 years apart. See the images below. Can this be the reason for the successful pairing?
July 5, 20206 yr 8 hours ago, Cassie said: both inverters have the same firmware namely U1 52.30 although I bought them 6 years apart. They were made only 3 months apart (2015/02 and 2015/05). You'll probably appreciate some fan speed control improvement by updating to the latest applicable firmware (73.00e patched firmware, or 72.70 factory firmware). Do not update to factory firmware version 73.00.
July 5, 20206 yr Are these the same fans as the 3kva model? I'm also sitting with a 01 Fan Warning due to an aftermarket fan replacement.
July 5, 20206 yr Author 17 hours ago, Coulomb said: They were made only 3 months apart (2015/02 and 2015/05). You'll probably appreciate some fan speed control improvement by updating to the latest applicable firmware (73.00e patched firmware, or 72.70 factory firmware). Do not update to factory firmware version 73.00. I think I will just stay with the firmware as they are. I understand that if something went wrong with the updating, the inverter is messed up and will have to be replaced completely.
July 5, 20206 yr 2 hours ago, Cassie said: if something went wrong with the updating, the inverter is messed up and will have to be replaced completely. No, actually just the control board, a small plug-in daughter board. But I understand that firmware updating isn't for everyone.
July 6, 20206 yr 16 hours ago, Cassie said: I think I will just stay with the firmware as they are. I understand that if something went wrong with the updating, the inverter is messed up and will have to be replaced completely. I would say bricking your inverter is not something that you need to be too worried about. I have successfully updated my 2 Axperts (also made in 2015 and running 52.30) to 73.00e. Follow the instructions here but use the newer firmware from Coulomb's link The update on my 2nd unit failed on the first attempt, but following the info from this thread the update completed successfully on the second attempt
July 10, 20206 yr Author On 2020/07/06 at 3:35 PM, wolfandy said: I would say bricking your inverter is not something that you need to be too worried about. I have successfully updated my 2 Axperts (also made in 2015 and running 52.30) to 73.00e. Follow the instructions here but use the newer firmware from Coulomb's link Thanks for the assurance and links. However at the moment my finances are limited. I must now concentrate on the installation of my panels. When I'm finished with that I might consider to upgrade. But I first want to ask, if there are any "benefits" in upgrading the firmware? I know about the better control over fan speed. If I bricking my inverters and have to replace a daughter board (as Coulomb describes) at this stage, my motivation and confidence will drop and might just stop me from carrying on (Lol!).
July 11, 20206 yr 18 hours ago, Cassie said: But I first want to ask, if there are any "benefits" in upgrading the firmware? You can find the details on the improvements in Coulomb's link In my view the updated firmware provides significant benefits, so to me it was worth taking the 'risk' Since you are running Pylons, you should use the LFP 'flavor' (as did I). And you would need to flash both inverters to be able to parallel them
July 11, 20206 yr Author 2 hours ago, wolfandy said: Since you are running Pylons, you should use the LFP 'flavor' (as did I). And you would need to flash both inverters to be able to parallel them Thanks wolfandy, I will definitely consider this. Does LFP has a specific function which contribute to the advantage of the Lithiums or the Axperts? What is it actually?
July 12, 20206 yr 19 hours ago, Cassie said: Does LFP has a specific function which contribute to the advantage of the Lithiums or the Axperts? What is it actually? @Coulomb will be the expert to answer this. But to my understanding it has adjusted charging/voltage settings optimized for lithium batteries (such as your Pylons)
July 12, 20206 yr 20 hours ago, Cassie said: Does LFP has a specific function which contribute to the advantage of the Lithiums or the Axperts? What is it actually? LFP cells have a very flat voltage versus SOC curve. Most other lithium chemistries and all lead acid chemistries are very different. The Axpert firmware was designed with lead acid in mind. For example, if your battery voltage gets to within 2.0 V of the low DC cutoff voltage, you get a low battery warning and beeeeep. This makes sense for lead acid, not for LFP. We cut this 2.0 V down to 0.5 V for the LFP flavour (only) of patched firmware. Another example: if the inverter is in float, and conditions change such that you should re-charge the battery to the absorb voltage, factory firmware will wait for the battery voltage to fall 4.0 V below the float voltage setting before this will happen. A 4.0 V drop in a lithium battery could mean it's dead flat. We change this to 1.2 V, which is much more suitable for LFP batteries. Then there are all the benefits of patched firmware not related to LFP batteries: KettleKomp™ (so it switches to utility mode less often, as when you switch on a kettle), better display, etc etc.
July 12, 20206 yr Author 3 hours ago, Coulomb said: For example, if your battery voltage gets to within 2.0 V of the low DC cutoff voltage, you get a low battery warning and beeeeep. This makes sense for lead acid, not for LFP. We cut this 2.0 V down to 0.5 V for the LFP flavour (only) of patched firmware. Another example: if the inverter is in float, and conditions change such that you should re-charge the battery to the absorb voltage, factory firmware will wait for the battery voltage to fall 4.0 V below the float voltage setting before this will happen. A 4.0 V drop in a lithium battery could mean it's dead flat. We change this to 1.2 V, which is much more suitable for LFP batteries. Thanks Coulomb, I thought applying the Raspberry Pi does take care of these shortfalls of the Axperts when connecting them to Lithiums. Will it damage my Pylontech if I only do it in 5 months time (upgrading the firmware). I will only install my panels then. At the moment I'm just using the system as a UPS system for when we have load shedding episodes. I checked on the Raspberry ICC program and with the past two episodes the Pylontech never dropped below 48v. But 48v is about 5v below the float voltage on the Pylontech (53.1v) and it shows me I think 61% SOC. I'm still learning and therefore don't understand "A 4.0 V drop in a lithium battery could mean it's dead flat" but mine only showed 61% on the ICC. Please help I'm now a bit confused?
July 13, 20206 yr 6 hours ago, Cassie said: float voltage on the Pylontech (53.1v) This is deemed quite high for the Pylons Recommended settings here in the forum (and what is also working well for me) are 52.5V for Bulk/Absorption and 51.8V for Float See plonkster's post or the full thread for details 7 hours ago, Cassie said: I thought applying the Raspberry Pi does take care of these shortfalls of the Axperts when connecting them to Lithiums Not to my knowledge. ICC can read the actual SOC from the Pylon BMS, allowing you to use accurate data rather than the voltage guesstimate of the Axpert for switching between Solar/Battery and Utility. But to my understanding it does not impact the Axpert charging behavior 7 hours ago, Cassie said: But 48v [...] and it shows me I think 61% SOC. 48V and 61% SOC sounds a bit strange to me. I am currently sitting at 49.3V and 47% SOC. But it sounds like your Pylon is still relatively new and has not gone through many cycles - correct? Then this might still be part of the Pylon settling down. Or what do other think?
July 13, 20206 yr 8 hours ago, Cassie said: I thought applying the Raspberry Pi does take care of these shortfalls of the Axperts when connecting them to Lithiums. I keep forgetting that a lot of SA readers use ICC; I don't use it myself. So I don't know whether ICC can overcome these deficiencies or not. I don't think it can change charge stages, for example. I know it can influence changing back to utility and back to battery transitions.
July 13, 20206 yr Author 1 hour ago, wolfandy said: Recommended settings here in the forum (and what is also working well for me) are 52.5V for Bulk/Absorption and 51.8V for Float Thanks so much you guys for the info, experience and knowledge you sharing. Yes, my Pylon is brand new - I installed it about 3 weeks ago - and ICC showed 1 cycle? The supplier of the Pylon set up my Axperts via the internet and the Raspberry Pi. He does have a lot of experience. However I'm worrying now about the bulk and float charge levels. I don't have experience of the Raspberry Pi and ICC - I'm used to do things myself and therefore need to get the knowledge how to set up and made chances, as needed, to the Axperts, via the Raspberry Pi. I need to change the bulk and float levels according to your advice tomorrow morning. My son (an electro-physics engineer in Canada) also advised me, when I ordered the Pylon, that I should never charge it higher than 80% and not draining it below 40% - I was worried from the beginning about the setting of 53.1, it looked to me if that is more than 80%. I will contact the supplier of the Raspberry and get the instructions how to manage the inverters via ICC. I was wondering if there is not perhaps instructions for ICC on the forum somewhere? I do include 5 images. The 1st one is a screenshot when we run out of pre-paid electricity on 5 July (battery volts 49.35 and SOC 97%) The 2nd one is a screenshot when we had our 1st load shedding episode on Thursday (9 July) (battery volts 48.95 and SOC 69%) Then the 3rd shot taken, the next load shedding episode also Thursday but at 21:23 (battery voltage 50.52 but SOC now 54% - why lower SOC but batt voltage is higher than the previous time?) No cycles yet? The 4th, this morning 04:10 (Bad storm in the Cape and I'm up from 03:00). No load shedding. But displaying 1 cycle. My understanding is that 1 cycle is if you drained the battery to cut-off voltage and charge it to full capacity again - the battery wasn't drained during any of the previous episodes at all. The 5th one. Taken just now. Shows the battery graph with a strange dip below the 0 mark - I noticed the grid displays a similar graph pattern. What does that mean? Thanks again for your help and advice.
July 13, 20206 yr 4 hours ago, Cassie said: Then the 3rd shot taken, the next load shedding episode also Thursday but at 21:23 (battery voltage 50.52 but SOC now 54% - why lower SOC but batt voltage is higher than the previous time?) No cycles yet? Battery was charging again for some time when you took the screenshot therefore the higher voltage. Edited July 13, 20206 yr by francois
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