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BlueNova vs Pylontech - help me decide on batteries for my MultiPlus 3kVa


iops
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The road to Lithium has been a slow one, filled with many decisions. The installer I've gone with to fix up my system, get it signed off by the CoCT and install Lithium batteries has recommended BlueNova batteries for my MultiPlus II 3kVa, specifically the BN52V-77-4k model, 4kWh in total.

I've read good reviews for BlueNova, and maybe I've already made up my mind to go with Pyltontech, hoping that everyone here can help point me in a better direction. I can't decide between the two, both seem like good options.

Victron recommend 2x US2000B, could I get away with one US3000?

 

I don't have a lot of load on my system, at the absolute worst I'll pull 35A from the batteries, but I do like the fact that the Pylontech's can be easily added onto, for cheaper in comparison to the BlueNova's, and that the Pylontech's are rackable.

My budget for this would be a hard cap of R40k. What would you choose? My aim is to eventually get as close to a 10kWh battery backup with the idea of buying now and adding on later.

 

Other specs in my system:

6x 330W array, 1980W in total

VenusGX

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2 hours ago, iops said:

Victron recommend 2x US2000B, could I get away with one US3000?

If I remember correctly and based on what I've read before you can't really get away with it as you won't have a warranty on the battery and/or inverter. The reason being that you need a battery that can accommodate for the peak load of the inverter which is 5500W / ~115A. And with an expensive battery you wouldn't really want to play with not having a warranty.

2 hours ago, iops said:

My budget for this would be a hard cap of R40k.

Just for the batteries or including the inverter? Because I'm sure you can pick up 2x US3000's for R40k, but if it's along with the Multi I'd suggest extending that hard cap a little bit and getting 2x US2000's then. It looks like you can get the Multi and 2x US2000's for ~R50k. Only another R10k 😅 but if you're planning on extending the bank it's not like you'll sit with too much capacity that'll go to waste.

 

2 hours ago, iops said:

I've already made up my mind to go with Pyltontech

I don't think you can go wrong there. It's well known and supported by the Multi and relatively cheap in comparison to other options out there.

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I would definitely go with Pylontech, never had a single problem with them, on the other hand I have had nothing but problems with BlueNova.

Not to mention that their so-called 4kWh battery is actually 3.2kWh, but if you ask them about it they claim that they spec. the C10 rating which is ridiculous.

That particular battery you are looking at, which BlueNova claim to be 77Ah has 60Ah cells inside (the capacity is printed on the cells by the manufacturer).

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Thanks for the replies everyone, I think I'm edging closer towards the Pylontech, waiting on a final quote. The clarify the budget, I already have everything, so R40k is for the batteries alone.

12 hours ago, fredhen said:

If I remember correctly and based on what I've read before you can't really get away with it as you won't have a warranty on the battery and/or inverter. The reason being that you need a battery that can accommodate for the peak load of the inverter which is 5500W / ~115A. And with an expensive battery you wouldn't really want to play with not having a warranty.

I'm going off Victron's recommendation, which say a minimum of 2x US2000 for my inverter - https://www.victronenergy.com/live/battery_compatibility:pylontech_phantom#minimum_battery_sizing_recommendations

Would that mean I need 2x US3000s? I've read mixed reports online about this.

11 hours ago, Rclegg said:

I went with pylontech  - no regrets. Just an amazing battery. 

Thanks! What inverter do you have and how many Pylontech's in your stack?

 

2 hours ago, Stanley said:

I would definitely go with Pylontech, never had a single problem with them, on the other hand I have had nothing but problems with BlueNova.

Not to mention that their so-called 4kWh battery is actually 3.2kWh, but if you ask them about it they claim that they spec. the C10 rating which is ridiculous.

That particular battery you are looking at, which BlueNova claim to be 77Ah has 60Ah cells inside (the capacity is printed on the cells by the manufacturer).

Interesting, thanks! I'm reading up on C ratings and can't quite wrap my head around it just yet. Pylontech seems a little more upfront about their capacity rating.

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There is an Australian company that researches a few battery types, checking reliability, lifespan etc. , started in 2016.

So far after 3 years, the Pylontechs are the only battery to not have had failures....https://batterytestcentre.com.au/

They have a good BMS as well...

Read April 2020 report, Pylontechs still going strong!!

"Operational Issues ITP has not experienced any operational issues with the Pylontech battery pack. "

"Capacity Fade The full discharge capacity implied by each partial cycle is depicted in Figure 7. The data suggests a SOH of ~85% after ~1,675 cycles."

That gives you 5 years of use to 80% SOH.

The most NB thing to consider when choosing a battery provider is does the battery talk seamlessly (with BMS) to my inverter. This is where the industry is moving, each inverter will certify a battery provider, the "any battery will do" days are over.

 

Edited by FixAMess
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1 hour ago, iops said:

The clarify the budget, I already have everything, so R40k is for the batteries alone

I think current street prices for the Pylon US3000 are just under 21k - which means if you can stretch you budget by a tiny bit more, you can get 2x US3000

I originally started off with a single Pylon, have since added bit by bit, and have now 4 of them in my system. Adding an extra Pylon to the stack is extremely easy and I have not a single problem with my Pylons ever

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1 hour ago, iops said:

Would that mean I need 2x US3000s? I've read mixed reports online about this.

I think it's best to play it safe and get 2x US3000's.

It's about the batteries that should be able to accommodate the peak load of the inverter which is 5500 W / ~115A for that model. The US3000 can peak at 100A and this may void your warranty if that happens.

1 hour ago, iops said:

so R40k is for the batteries alone.

You can pick 2x of them up for R40k from a couple of places although I'm not too sure about shipping costs.

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13 minutes ago, fredhen said:

It's about the batteries that should be able to accommodate the peak load of the inverter which is 5500 W / ~115A for that model. The US3000 can peak at 100A and this may void your warranty if that happens.

To be more specific: A single Pylon US3000 does not like to be discharged (or charged) by more than 37A (approx. 1800W). It can handle brief spikes (to my understanding we're talking about seconds) of up to 100A

15 hours ago, fredhen said:

The reason being that you need a battery that can accommodate for the peak load of the inverter which is 5500W / ~115A

Continuous output rating of the 3kV MultiPlus II is 3000W and I would want to match my batteries to that (I do not own a Victron but am not sure if I would really want to push it to 5500W...)

2x US3000 can continuously handle up to 74A (approx. 3600W) and in my view would hence be a great match for the 3kV MultiPlus II

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Pylons seem to be the winner in value for money. The only issues is that you need a few to to maintain your warranty. (4 on a MP 5000) 

Another option that i have been looking at is the SolarMD. It's more expensive, but you only need to connect 1 to the inverter. 

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, wolfandy said:

I think current street prices for the Pylon US3000 are just under 21k - which means if you can stretch you budget by a tiny bit more, you can get 2x US3000

I originally started off with a single Pylon, have since added bit by bit, and have now 4 of them in my system. Adding an extra Pylon to the stack is extremely easy and I have not a single problem with my Pylons ever

That would stretch it a bit, I'd still need cables and want to find a cabinet to house these things so maybe I'm better off starting small with 2x US2000 and adding on. Which ones do you have? If I have a total of 4x US2000 that'll give me roughly 9.6kWh - more than enough to keep my house going for ages.

8 hours ago, calypso said:

Another option that i have been looking at is the SolarMD. It's more expensive, but you only need to connect 1 to the inverter. 

I was initially quoted and was happy with SolarMD but stock seems a little scarce at the moment. That kind of put me off for potential replacements on failures, expansion etc. Also the Pylontechs can be installed into a cabinet, of which I already have one server cabinet with networking gear. Maybe I'm a bit OCD.

7 hours ago, Louisvdw said:

Another option if you like tinkering is to build your own DIY battery (or buy one). You do get more kW for the price. As long as it does have a serial connection you should be able to use my serial-battery driver for the Victron systems.

Did consider this, and seems like a fun project but I have zero confidence in myself to do something like this. I may start off smaller by powering my homelab as a test bench with DIY cells.

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39 minutes ago, iops said:

I'd still need cables

You only need to purchase 1 set of connection cables for the batteries to the inverter (or breaker/fuse inbetween) and is rated for 120A (meaning you can safely run 3x US3000 on it). The pack is just under R400. Each Pylon comes with the set of cables to connect to another battery

39 minutes ago, iops said:

want to find a cabinet to house these things

Any standard 19" rack will work for the Pylons. I am using a Samson SRK12 12U rack, which can hold 4x US3000

39 minutes ago, iops said:

maybe I'm better off starting small with 2x US2000 and adding on

I personally would rather go with the US3000 than the US2000 (can't really explain why - do not have any experience with the US2000). Even a single US3000 will 'work' with your inverter. You wrote in your initial post that you don't think that you'll draw more than 35A with your loads, so the single US3000 would be able to handle that. I would probably start off with a single US3000 (which is what I also initially did) and then add the 2nd once you have saved up the balance

I have read somewhere that you can also mix US2000 and US3000 in a stack - but do not have any experience with that. Maybe someone else here does and can help out?

39 minutes ago, iops said:

Which ones do you have?

I am running 4x US3000

39 minutes ago, iops said:

If I have a total of 4x US2000 that'll give me roughly 9.6kWh

Just keep in mind your 80% DOD, which means that this would give you 7.7kWh of usable capacity

Edited by wolfandy
Typo...
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  • 3 weeks later...

Opted for the US3000, it was installed on Wednesday and I'm very happy! Thanks again for everyone's input and advice, these forums are great!

I'm going to add a second in a few months and then probably move into a cabinet to add the third, potentially a fourth, pending how many panels I can add to my roof first.

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50 minutes ago, iops said:

Opted for the US3000, it was installed on Wednesday and I'm very happy! Thanks again for everyone's input and advice, these forums are great!

I'm going to add a second in a few months and then probably move into a cabinet to add the third, potentially a fourth, pending how many panels I can add to my roof first.

Awesome choice the Pylontech batteries are very good you can't go wrong there.

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