13 minutes ago, Superfly said:

Prior to our Victron addition we were in the same position as you.

The Voltronic 3kva will crap out on a high surge (like a 1.8kw kettle) during loadshedding if TV, lights etc are on

What we did was get a low power kettle (I think 1.2kw) and stove top kettle (for gas hob) but the low power was  faster so we used that  - obviously only 1 appliance at a time - with Eskom on it does not matter as much as it will draw excess from the grid. The main thing is not to run air-fryer,  toaster or kettle etc at once.

Hair-dryers are also an issue - I told the women in my house to go cut their hair short to save energy and the environment - Needless to say, I got chucked out of the house .. LOL

In defence of a 3kW Voltronic I think you had some other factors at play that your 3kVA could not run a 1.8kW kettle. Mine can any day run my 2kW kettle but we don't use do it. Now and again SWAMBO might think the grid is on and switch it on. Luckily if I am around I do spot my bright light that comes on when the inverter reaches alarm level. This morning with 4hrs LS she also used the hair dryer. Time of use is short so it is not a problem. 

I agree the splitting is 1st prize. 

Thanks guys for the responses. So most of you recommend splitting. I'm also thinking of long-term as I don't plan on staying in my apartment for more than 2 years at most and I'm thinking of the next buyer - I'll sell with the inverter/battery installed to add value to the property (I live in an apartment complex).

Obviously the sole consideration wasn't to make money, but just for quality of life, but if the added bonus means I've added value to my apartment by having a fully installed system with a great warranty (hence the addition of the Hubble AM-4, 10 year warranty - 3000 cycles at 100% DOD, 6000 cycles to 50% DOD) then that's a bonus. Of all the axpert inverters, the Kodak is one of the very few to carry a 3 year warranty.

All this means is that... I'm going to have to buy myself a whistling kettle. I'm planning on adding a gas stove in the next 2 months. The only appliances I won't have access to during load shedding would be microwave and oven.

A part of me is thinking I probably should have opted for a 5KVA inverter like my dad - he is running everything off his inverter, kettle works, microwave works, oven, toaster etc - just can't use more than two at a time without the inverter making a bleeping noise (while TV and fridge/freezer is on), but I didn't want to overspend knowing that I'm probably not going to stay in my apartment for more than 2 years.

If I had spent another R10K on top of what I've just paid I probably could have managed it (I spent R30K on inverter/battery), but I'm certainly not going to get another R10K back when I sell. I think I've bought the right system, but you know, just wished I could run everything.

Edited April 15, 20233 yr by Olorin

I'm probably second guessing myself since I've just ordered the components and they are on their way but.... do you get 5KVA inverters that operate on 24V that would work with the AM-4 battery (which is also 24v?)

2 hours ago, Olorin said:

I'm probably second guessing myself since I've just ordered the components and they are on their way but.... do you get 5KVA inverters that operate on 24V that would work with the AM-4 battery (which is also 24v?)

I don't have a yes or no answer, but there's an inviolable law to deal with here. 

Power = volts * Amps. 

And another: Amps determine cable gauge. The more amps, the thicker the cable. 

So a 5KVA inverter will have to draw 200A from the battery to make that peak load. 

And so

1) will the battery let you draw 200A?

2) you are going to need some big, fat cables to carry that current. And the inverter will need some heavy duty circuitry to take that current. 

An 8kW inverter will need to pull 160A from a 50V battery, but 320 from a 24V battery, so you see the implications of P=V*A. This is why we have 50V batteries for systems to power a house. 

Now I've said all that, specs for the AM4 tell us the continuous discharge current is 100A. So that's not a good match for an inverter that might try to draw double that current. You will get away with it as long as you don't try to draw more than 100A/2.5kW.

So either don't bother with the 5kW inverter, or get a 50V battery that will allow a 100A draw. 

 

Edited April 15, 20233 yr by Bobster.
Sppeling

 

4 hours ago, Olorin said:

I understand these appliances can use a LOT of power - like the kettle. However if I'm only using one at a time is that still doable on a 3KVA inverter? If I'm running a TV and a fridge? No lights? I am planning on buying a gas hob/electric oven which will help with cooking during loadshedding, but I just need to ask the forum whether I should tell the electrician to separate the circuits for major appliances or keep everything as is and just be careful and logical about how I use my appliances.

Thoughts?

Kettles draw a lot for a short time. Especially if you boil the water you need & boil it once*. So they are not too bad, but you need to keep an eye on peak load. 

The oven will draw a lot of power for a longer time. If you don't split the DB then so will the geyser. 

There are two potential problems: you could overload the inverter, and you could drain the battery too quickly. 

Split the DB. Keep the stove on the non-backed up side. Or buy a full gas stove, then you can run it on the backed up circuits because it will take electricity for the oven lamp, maybe a fan, and for the igniter. That's fairly trivial. 

 

 

* I am not naming names, but I know of households where this happens 

- get up. Fill the kettle. Boil it. 

- have a shower. Boil kettle again. 

- get dressed. Boil kettle again. 

- check social media. Boil kettle 

- go outside for a smoke. Boil the kettle again. Make one cup of coffee. 

 

Edited April 15, 20233 yr by Bobster.
Add long rant about kettle abuse.

20 minutes ago, Bobster. said:

 

Kettles draw a lot for a short time. Especially if you boil the water you need & boil it once*. So they are not too bad, but you need to keep an eye on peak load. 

The oven will draw a lot of power for a longer time. If you don't split the DB then so will the geyser. 

There are two potential problems: you could overload the inverter, and you could drain the battery too quickly. 

Split the DB. Keep the stove on the non-backed up side. Or buy a full gas stove, then you can run it on the backed up circuits because it will take electricity for the oven lamp, maybe a fan, and for the igniter. That's fairly trivial. 

 

 

* I am not naming names, but I know of households where this happens 

- get up. Fill the kettle. Boil it. 

- have a shower. Boil kettle again. 

- get dressed. Boil kettle again. 

- check social media. Boil kettle 

- go outside for a smoke. Boil the kettle again. Make one cup of coffee. 

 

Thanks, this makes sense! 

32 minutes ago, Bobster. said:

I don't have a yes or no answer, but there's an inviolable law to deal with here. 

Power = volts * Amps. 

And another: Amps determine cable gauge. The more amps, the thicker the cable. 

So a 5KVA inverter will have to draw 200A from the battery to make that peak load. 

And so

1) will the battery let you draw 200A?

2) you are going to need some big, fat cables to carry that current. And the inverter will need some heavy duty circuitry to take that current. 

An 8kW inverter will need to pull 160A from a 50V battery, but 320 from a 24V battery, so you see the implications of P=V*A. This is why we have 50V batteries for systems to power a house. 

Now I've said all that, specs for the AM4 tell us the continuous discharge current is 100A. So that's not a good match for an inverter that might try to draw double that current. You will get away with it as long as you don't try to draw more than 100A/2.5kW.

So either don't bother with the 5kW inverter, or get a 50V battery that will allow a 100A draw. 

 

Thank you for explaining, I think I've made the right decision after all.

Need to replace my halogen lights with LED bulbs is next on the agenda. 

7 minutes ago, Superfly said:

Totally OT... but I don't understand why the kettle has to be full for a single cuppa... you wait so much  longer and waste so much energy? -- it's just mental!

I'm not saying this is sensible, nor that I approve. If this were going on in my house, I'd come out in a rash.

29 minutes ago, Bobster. said:

I'm not saying this is sensible, nor that I approve. If this were going on in my house, I'd come out in a rash.

Our kettle went belly up this evening. The wife is going to buy a replacement tomorrow. I said please, do not exceed the wattage of the one we're parting with. She says look at this nice one. I say that's 2.4kW, so over my dead body. 

And I kept on looking. It's horrendous. They mostly take a lot of water & so have a bigass element. Several are 3kW! How are we supposed to reduce our carbon footprint?

I eventually found a nice Phillips. 1.8kW (a little less than at present) and all packaging is recycled. More like it, but I wouldn't mind one of these 750W jobs I hear about. That may be able to be used at the same time as the toaster, thus creating happiness. 

Edited April 15, 20233 yr by Bobster.

8 hours ago, Olorin said:

Need to replace my halogen lights with LED bulbs is next on the agenda. 

This....as soon as possible!!!

LED's are the way to go, I've replaced every globe in the house with LED, biggest draw from the largest is 9w, most of the others pull 3 or 5w, halogen's are minimum 50w some even more. 

3 hours ago, jacksdad said:

This....as soon as possible!!!

LED's are the way to go, I've replaced every globe in the house with LED, biggest draw from the largest is 9w, most of the others pull 3 or 5w, halogen's are minimum 50w some even more. 

Any place you'd recommend to get LEDs and dimmer switches? I'm based in Cape Town.

2 hours ago, Olorin said:

Any place you'd recommend to get LEDs and dimmer switches? I'm based in Cape Town.

Just about anywhere in CT, Lighting Warehouse, Eagle Lighting, even Builders. I've found that the Eurolux ones are reasonable quality. When running off inverter, some of the cheaper no-name brands tend to dip a bit for a millisecond or so when the fridge or any other high draw appliance kicks. Apparently to do with the inferior quality capacitors that they have inside them.

So an update - system was installed today. Installer reckoned I didn't need to have the circuits separated and he was right. We did a test on battery power, TV on, lights on, amp on, kettle on ... no problem. There was about 25% reserve capacity remaining. Tried the same test but with the microwave, no problem.

The geyser and oven/stove are not connected however.

However I'm experiencing an issue that may not be an issue at all - the Kodak inverter. When on Eskom power, there is a hissing sound coming from it. It's a specific type of high frequency but it sounds like a hissing sound. I can hear it even 4-5 meters away when there are no other sounds.

However if we using battery power the hissing sound goes away. Only on Eskom power - the installer has no idea. There are no fault codes showing on the inverter. Otherwise apart from the hissing sound, everything is working 100%.

Also just a question - I just had loadshedding now, my AV receiver went off and then came back on again. Is that normal? Is that what is supposed to happen? My TV was uninterrupted and my lights were fine, just my AV receiver. Not sure why.

On 2023/04/16 at 12:44 AM, Bobster. said:

Our kettle went belly up this evening. The wife is going to buy a replacement tomorrow. I said please, do not exceed the wattage of the one we're parting with. She says look at this nice one. I say that's 2.4kW, so over my dead body. 

And I kept on looking. It's horrendous. They mostly take a lot of water & so have a bigass element. Several are 3kW! How are we supposed to reduce our carbon footprint?

I eventually found a nice Phillips. 1.8kW (a little less than at present) and all packaging is recycled. More like it, but I wouldn't mind one of these 750W jobs I hear about. That may be able to be used at the same time as the toaster, thus creating happiness. 

My current kettle is a 1.7L 2kw with a minimum level of 800ml which is a pain as you only use about 300ml per cup.

What a battle to get the family to only heat what you need except if it is less than the minimum level.

I am thinking of getting myself a 900ml 1.3kw Picollo kettle with a minimum level of 500ml or otherwise a Siena with 1500w element and 800ml capacity.

Does anybody use a mini kettle? 

Edited April 24, 20233 yr by Vaal

Just a question, I might have asked it before, but when I'm load shedded, my AV receiver switches off and then on again - takes about 3-4 seconds. When battery power switches to Eskom, there is no issue, so this presumably has something to do with AC Pure sine and inverter Pure Sine not matching precisely. 

Is there anything I can do to prevent the AV receiver from switching off and on again when I'm load shedded?

Edited April 24, 20233 yr by Olorin

9 minutes ago, Olorin said:

Is there anything I can do to prevent the AV receiver from switching off and on again when I'm load shedded

DC UPS or a big cap on the AV's arse.

DC UPS? Damn was hoping something smaller like a a special multiplug or something 

2 minutes ago, Olorin said:

DC UPS? Damn was hoping something smaller like a a special multiplug or something 

Gizzu Mini UPS will work. Depending on the voltage you could also just put a few 18650s in series.

It actually doesn't make sense to step your battery voltage up to ac and then down to dc again. Install a buck board directly off your batteries.

16 minutes ago, frivan said:

Install a buck board directly off your batteries.

I dont know what that means. 

I'm just concerned what long term effect the switching off/on again this will have on my amplifier. Obviously I would prefer it not to happen at all, but I don't want to spend a lot of money either. I just forked out R40K on this system for my small apartment 

 

Google buck converter.

 

https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjK06f5n8P-AhWLme0KHTG4CXQYABAPGgJkZw&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAES2QHg9vd_yMpiwmsaVi4l0tHPGgWogQzYUq40G79vXmK9B2aNYGtKyjBewnlKrWXHOzpA9GkiPZNu71N39rjG4yVxeeeAbNmfaFjBTeP2mpv5KoGAA_si_Tgn30d_C6-j1yoK9onGMhWtKKLJfFGWHAKnqCSDpYlhbnaNCyFMFlpv2eqbVUq9nUuOUsB4jBzamvuig3OGkLQ-30jJIlVrn2oeWBP2XOwv4pr4C5aOq6RT_sBIWvnEq7maLMngFy7gPcDlv5vWVT-GFjmMhX7Mhhlit1Yb3daXom7T&sig=AOD64_3DzpfyCUl3sLL84XsYRmF-sxhg9g&ctype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwj8saD5n8P-AhWZaMAKHTrKAEIQwg8oAHoECAYQDA&adurl=

Okay so I buy this gadget and then what? I'm not technical, so what am I to do then? 

Edited April 24, 20233 yr by Olorin

On 2023/04/15 at 11:32 PM, Bobster. said:

* I am not naming names, but I know of households where this happens 

- get up. Fill the kettle. Boil it. 

- have a shower. Boil kettle again. 

- get dressed. Boil kettle again. 

- check social media. Boil kettle 

- go outside for a smoke. Boil the kettle again. Make one cup of coffee. 

Perhaps you should introduce that household to an invention called a thermoflask.  Boil once and have steaming hot water for 3 hours.

19 minutes ago, Modina said:

Perhaps you should introduce that household to an invention called a thermoflask.  Boil once and have steaming hot water for 3 hours.

And Wonderbags to keep food warm.

I often preheat the convection microwave before loadshedding and then place some coffee, etc into it.