January 26, 20233 yr What are people's thoughts on these? Fireplaces are great but a decent efficiency one with flue is about 20k. Also have to deal with firewood purchases and storage. Heat pump are similar, more efficient yet rely on elec. I could get more panels of course. Are there any decent air heat pumps here in SA?
January 26, 20233 yr 10 minutes ago, sunset1 said: Are there any decent air heat pumps here in SA? You mean like any modern aircon? Yeah, there are plenty of those. Edited January 26, 20233 yr by P1000
January 26, 20233 yr 6 minutes ago, sunset1 said: Heat pump are similar, more efficient yet rely on elec. I could get more panels of course. You're more likely to want to run this toward the evening, though, I suspect, so buget = [ heat pump + more panels + more battery capacity ] ... else you may end up, when you really want to run it, not being able to, due to Eksdom (oopsie) and no solar being produced... As for decent, don't know, most decent reversible inverter type Aircons would probably qualify...
January 26, 20233 yr 1 hour ago, Kalahari Meerkat said: You're more likely to want to run this toward the evening, though, I suspect, so buget = [ heat pump + more panels + more battery capacity ] ... else you may end up, when you really want to run it, not being able to, due to Eksdom (oopsie) and no solar being produced... I have a heat pump for the main geyser. I run it early am for an hour (the thermostat usually switches it off before the time is up), and again at midday (has a three hour window, but it's rare for the compressor to run for more than an hour). This suits the two adults in our house very well, and it is all supported by PV and battery. I shower when I get up, the wife showers 5pm earliest, more often 8 or 9 pm. Caveat: We have the pipes between the pump and the geyser insulated and a big ass blanket on the geyser. Edited January 26, 20233 yr by Bobster.
January 26, 20233 yr Author Hmm, well we mostly sleep under nice fluffy blankets at night so we actually use heating a lot during the day due to cold fronts. I saying that, the sun doesn't shine. Much during cold fronts.
January 26, 20233 yr 6 minutes ago, sunset1 said: Hmm, well we mostly sleep under nice fluffy blankets at night so we actually use heating a lot during the day due to cold fronts. ok, same here, luckily winter here is more sunshine than cloud cover, but as it is, no aircon/reversible unit for heating or cooling, need to look at something, ek is besig om uit te droog soos 'n rosyntjie... outdoor peak temperature today in the shade... 42.5°C... indoor right now 33.6°C and no cold water to use in the shower... If you can afford to overpanel and use an inverter aircon for heating in winter, it may be an option... either way, the fireplace is still an option, but, as always, consumables (wood) also need to come into the equation, if we had a fireplace here, I'd be burning wood in winter, to raise the temperature 2 or 3 degrees or so, in the house and the wood would not cost anything but a bit of effort to cut down some trees and down to size for feeding the fireplace... so would be inexpensive mostly to run...
January 26, 20233 yr 17 minutes ago, Bobster. said: Caveat: We have the pipes between the pump and the geyser insulated and a big ass blanket on the geyser. that's something I still need to look at for our only source of hot water, the 12 evacuated 100l solar HWC without any extra heating.... but @sunset1 was meaning not hot water but heating the home... which maybe, put in underfloor heating and run a boatload of evacuated tubes with a circulation pump... only problem is what to do with this in summer?
January 26, 20233 yr 2 hours ago, sunset1 said: What are people's thoughts on these? Fireplaces are great but a decent efficiency one with flue is about 20k. Also have to deal with firewood purchases and storage. Heat pump are similar, more efficient yet rely on elec. I could get more panels of course. Are there any decent air heat pumps here in SA? Yes we do have. My 1st choice will always be the ITS 4.7kW or replacement. I have one for 9 years and have never connected the element and no need for it. I run it twice a day at 1.5kw and also heats up before each hour is up. I also run it directly or while running the bath water. It less than 1.5kwh per heating cycle I can do it from PV only or battery only or a combination during the day if needs be. My model is also fitted with an inverter start compressor.
January 26, 20233 yr 47 minutes ago, Bobster. said: I have a heat pump for the main geyser. I run it early am for an hour (the thermostat usually switches it off before the time is up), and again at midday (has a three hour window, but it's rare for the compressor to run for more than an hour). This suits the two adults in our house very well, and it is all supported by PV and battery. I shower when I get up, the wife showers 5pm earliest, more often 8 or 9 pm. Caveat: We have the pipes between the pump and the geyser insulated and a big ass blanket on the geyser. He seems to be looking for a heat pump to warm the house, not the one for water heating.
January 26, 20233 yr Author 16 minutes ago, Scorp007 said: Yes we do have. My 1st choice will always be the ITS 4.7kW or replacement. I have one for 9 years and have never connected the element and no need for it. I run it twice a day at 1.5kw and also heats up before each hour is up. I also run it directly or while running the bath water. It less than 1.5kwh per heating cycle I can do it from PV only or battery only or a combination during the day if needs be. My model is also fitted with an inverter start compressor. Do you use this to heat water or air?
January 26, 20233 yr 1 minute ago, sunset1 said: Do you use this to heat water or air? I think people saw heat pump and just assumed water heating. But then again, how do you heat up water with a fire place? 😂
January 26, 20233 yr going back to the topic, have you considered inverter type Aircon unit? I use 24000btu LG Artcool inverter AC to heat my house in winter and cool it in summer. Best of both worlds, easy on my batteries and solar. I think one other thing that helps is the insulation of the ceiling. I have insulated my entire ceiling and that helps a lot
January 26, 20233 yr 1 hour ago, sunset1 said: Do you use this to heat water or air? Water. For air don't we call it an aircon? It can cool or heat. Sorry Bobster and myself got it wrong.
January 26, 20233 yr I dump spare solar to the underfloor heating. Worked well for the short time I did so at the tail end of last winter. Never thought the UFH would be of any use after I first used it more than 30 years ago to heat the babies room and was shocked just like Cyril when the electricity account arrived. Never used again until solar arrived.
January 30, 20233 yr On 2023/01/26 at 3:23 PM, hoohloc said: I think people saw heat pump and just assumed water heating. But then again, how do you heat up water with a fire place? 😂 A donkey for hot water is a good solution... that's something I'm still thinking of putting in line for the odd winter morning, when you want a hot shower and the HWC might not be quite hot enough...
February 3, 20233 yr On 2023/01/26 at 12:55 PM, sunset1 said: What are people's thoughts on these? Fireplaces are great but a decent efficiency one with flue is about 20k. Also have to deal with firewood purchases and storage. Heat pump are similar, more efficient yet rely on elec. I could get more panels of course. Are there any decent air heat pumps here in SA? Kind of off-topic but you could try make the wood storage part of the design, it can actually look quite good if you do it Hopefully your wife is of the Pinterest type
May 8, 20233 yr On 2023/01/26 at 12:55 PM, sunset1 said: What are people's thoughts on these? Fireplaces are great but a decent efficiency one with flue is about 20k. Also have to deal with firewood purchases and storage. Heat pump are similar, more efficient yet rely on elec. I could get more panels of course. Are there any decent air heat pumps here in SA? I have both a fireplace (very efficient, secondary combustion) and a Samsung inverter aircon. Here are the main things to consider: Fireplace (slow combustion/wood burning stove with a door): Does not dry the air out like other heating options. You can order 40x bags of seasoned invasive wood (bluegum) before winter starts and store them on pallets... You cannot preorder electricity for winter...unless you have a diesel generator i guess. This is not a cheap option, but it is available and and can be relatively clean if done right. Environment impact: my unit burns 90% of emissions once warmed up - you wont see smoke. Its also better to burn this invasive blue gum wood than to leave it to rot. City of Cape Town found it cheaper to remove these trees to save water than other options. Does not require a beefy inverter or batteries... Cleaning required after each use (ash drawer must be emptied out and you may want to wash the pretty glass door). Service every year, chimney flue cleaned every 2 years to avoid chimney fire. Aircon: Can dry things out terribly so much that your eyes, skin and inside of nose is dried out and you eventually can get nose bleeds. Inverter aircons specifically (which are more efficient) do not offer instant heat. The colder it is, the longer you wait - in some cases it does some icing cycle first and you can wait 30 minutes for heat. I frequently lose my temper as i use it in my bedroom in the mornings and evenings for almost half the year to heat. When its working hard on heating, my 8kw inverter makes my CFL lights flicker for 30 seconds or so. If you have limited battery capacity or a small inverter, you might want to skip this. Service every year On a side note, I am yet to find anything other than fire that does not dry out the air for heating... and humidifier cleaning is not something I enjoy very much. Edited May 9, 20233 yr by whateversa Improved info on fireplace
May 9, 20233 yr 10 hours ago, whateversa said: Can dry things out terribly so much that your eyes, skin and inside of nose is dried out and you eventually can get nose bleeds I don't see how an aircon on heat mode can dry things out. Heating air increases it's ability to hold moisture. In cooling mode it decreases it's ability to hold moisture, which makes the water condense, drying out the air.
May 9, 20233 yr 23 minutes ago, P1000 said: I don't see how an aircon on heat mode can dry things out. Heating air increases it's ability to hold moisture. In cooling mode it decreases it's ability to hold moisture, which makes the water condense, drying out the air. Yes there is that point people keep raising (and I used to know the details to answer that), but the reality is you will have a hard time with it. I have to set my aircon to heat only up to 21c or 22 to keep it under control... otherwise dry mouth, nose, eyes, skin.... Its the similar effect you get from fan heaters... many people just wont use fan heaters because of the same reason. I live in a house that gets little sun shine through windows, so I have to rely a lot on heating in the house - and all forms including oil heaters do the same. The exception seems to be fire. Radiant heaters can cause the effect much slower fortunately as you can use a lower setting with the unit in front of you. An ethanol fireplace actually creates humidity - but in a small room it is highly uncomfortable and the smell is very strong. Edited May 9, 20233 yr by whateversa
May 9, 20233 yr 13 minutes ago, whateversa said: but the reality is you will have a hard time with it. That seems unlikely - I sleep with the aircon on cooling 12 months of the year and don't have a hard time with it. I can't speak for others, though.
May 9, 20233 yr 2 hours ago, P1000 said: That seems unlikely - I sleep with the aircon on cooling 12 months of the year and don't have a hard time with it. I can't speak for others, though. We are not talking about cooling, we are talking about heating. Cooling is not a problem. I also use it for cooling in summer. A bit more info on why heating dries the air: https://www.daikinindia.com/dry-air#:~:text=Air conditioner heating without humidifying,relative humidity) and causes drying. Edited May 9, 20233 yr by whateversa
May 9, 20233 yr 15 minutes ago, whateversa said: We are not talking about cooling, we are talking about heating. Cooling is not a problem. I also use it for cooling in summer. A bit more info on why heating dries the air: https://www.daikinindia.com/dry-air#:~:text=Air conditioner heating without humidifying,relative humidity) and causes drying. Yeah, so the reasons stated in your article is the same for all forms of heating: Quote Air conditioning does not "dry" because it reduces the amount of water in the air. It occurs because the humidity (relative humidity) decreases as the room temperature increases.
May 9, 20233 yr 2 hours ago, P1000 said: Yeah, so the reasons stated in your article is the same for all forms of heating: Actually not. As per my initial post, a wood burning stove/slow combustion fireplace does NOT give that drying out effect. That is my experience and what you will also hear from people that sell these units. This is why its my primary heating method in winter... I just supplement a bit with aircon in another room. Why does a wood stove not cause the drying problem? I cannot answer that. But I assure you, I would have had to live with a humidifier every day of winter if a fireplace did cause the drying effect. Then as per my later post, an ethanol fireplace also does not cause the drying effect - it actually releases humidity which can be too much in a small room. Edited May 9, 20233 yr by whateversa
June 8, 20251 yr I had a similar setup when switching to a wood stove—my old fireplace had a 3-inch external air pipe too. The stove installer from a Chimney & Fireplace place here in Dallas said it was just enough for my small stove, but borderline. They added a damper to help with airflow control. Depends on your stove’s requirements, but 3" can work if everything else is sealed well. I'd double-check with your stove's specs or a local installer just to be sure. Edited June 12, 20251 yr by Relayerat
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