Scarlock Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) Hello, I am doing the final planning for a solar backup system and have been told that all my AC breakers cannot be housed in the same physical DB, as it would contravene the SANS codes. I was told that "you cannot have more than one source of power" in a single DB, but this makes no sense because you have to have multiple "sources" for a selector or changeover. As I do not have a copy of the SANS I cannot verify what is and is not actually allowed in my DB. I have attached a quick system diagram, and would like to know if it is possible to legally house all my AC breakers in one large DB box, and if so what rules I need to follow. Any insight would be great.WD01-1.pdf Thanks Edited January 27, 2023 by Scarlock Energy-Jason 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaliaB Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 (edited) If alternate power is to be fed into a DB board together with Grid power, you need to have a split neutral bar. One for Grid power & one for the alternate power.Both power sources earth terminals need to be earthed to the main earth terminal.You also need to have a seperate main switch to disconnect the alternate power. Also a power on indicator (visible or audible) shall be provided together with a notice indicating that the alternate power main switch shall also be switched off in an emergency. The regulations also state that if alternate power feeds plug circuits, they have to have earth leakage protection. If not all plugs are being fed from the alternate power source, you would have two earth leakage units. One for grid fed plugs & one for alternate power fed plugs.I could not find any regulation within Sans 10142-1 that states you need 2 diffrent DB boards for Grid power and alternate power. Edited February 2, 2023 by TaliaB Rectifying spelling WannabeSolarSparky, zsde, CobusK and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaliaB Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlock Posted February 6, 2023 Author Share Posted February 6, 2023 Thanks for the explanation! It makes much more sense now and it looks like it is just "easier" for my electrician to just insist on a separate DB by "bending the truth" a bit... unfortunately for him I don't take kindly to bovine excrement... Time to rewire the main DB TaliaB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanS Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 Hallo @Scarlock, @TaliaB Have you gained any further insights regarding this topic? I would like to also implement a single split DB for my essential and non-essential loads exactly as per the SANS 10142-1 diagram with the alternative power source being an inverter-battery combination (i.e. no solar input for now). The electrician I spoke to also wanted to implement a second DB for the essential loads, but I don't see the need for it based on the above unless the information is outdated. Concerns I have: 1. Has the SANS standard been changed since the 2012 copy referenced? I could only get access to a draft 3rd edition (2020) standard which still uses the same diagram as the 2012 edition. 2. Have the City of Cape Town perhaps instituted further regulations that override this section of the SANS standard for Inverter-Battery units acting as UPS? 3. Have you any recent references of a City of Cape Town CoC being issued when following the split-DB approach? Many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobusK Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) One of my installations of a single split DB in Somerset Edited July 23, 2023 by CobusK Just addes description WannabeSolarSparky and Jacques Ester 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WannabeSolarSparky Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 17 minutes ago, CobusK said: One of my installations of a single split DB in Somerset Nice wiring work But what if you need to replace a faulty CT coil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobusK Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 Easy access behind the main MCB WannabeSolarSparky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WannabeSolarSparky Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, CobusK said: Easy access behind the main MCB My fingers waaayyy toooo fat to get in behind there Or is there access from behind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WannabeSolarSparky Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 9 minutes ago, CobusK said: Easy access behind the main MCB I cannot find these connectors anywhere, where do you get yours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobusK Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 Hager product, I found them at Frontline in Somerset WannabeSolarSparky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobusK Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 12 hours ago, WannabeSolarSparky said: My fingers waaayyy toooo fat to get in behind there Or is there access from behind? Depth behind is forgiving WannabeSolarSparky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WannabeSolarSparky Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 5 minutes ago, CobusK said: Hager product, I found them at Frontline in Somerset Thank You CobusK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FixAMess Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 On 2023/02/02 at 10:14 PM, TaliaB said: Also a power on indicator (visible or audible) shall be provided together with a notice indicating that the alternate power main switch shall also be switched off in an emergency. This is interesting! So e.g., a "light" can be put into the non-essential side to show that there is power. Is this the correct interpretation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WannabeSolarSparky Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, FixAMess said: This is interesting! So e.g., a "light" can be put into the non-essential side to show that there is power. Is this the correct interpretation? Usually to indicate status of essentials and grid are live or not, but you can put as many indicators as you like on all circuits that you want/need visual indication of status. I usually do 3 indicators grid - loads - inverter Edited July 24, 2023 by WannabeSolarSparky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaliaB Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 6 minutes ago, FixAMess said: This is interesting! So e.g., a "light" can be put into the non-essential side to show that there is power. Is this the correct interpretation? General requirements SANS 10142-1:2012 7.12.2 Requirements for alternative sources of supply 7.12.2.1 Where any form of alternative supply (emergency supply, UPS etc.), is connected to an electrical installation, a notice to this effect shall be displayed at the main switch of the installation, and where such supply a) supplies power only to certain circuits in a distribution board, a power-on indicator (visible or audible) shall be provided on each such distribution board as well as a notice indicating that the standby power main switch shall also be switched off in an emergency, CobusK and WannabeSolarSparky 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanS Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 Thanks all for the replies. Very useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanS Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 On 2023/07/23 at 9:16 PM, WannabeSolarSparky said: Nice wiring work But what if you need to replace a faulty CT coil On 2023/07/23 at 9:16 PM, WannabeSolarSparky said: Nice wiring work But what if you need to replace a faulty CT coil Neat work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerUser Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 On 2023/07/24 at 9:37 AM, CobusK said: Hager product, I found them at Frontline in Somerset Can you please tell us the exact name or model no.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobusK Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 4 hours ago, PowerUser said: Can you please tell us the exact name or model no.? Hi, sorry there is no model number on this product. There are two types of these terminals. This one with connecting wires perpendicular to the prong whilst the other is a linear connection. It accepts 16sq.mm wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerUser Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 4 hours ago, CobusK said: Hi, sorry there is no model number on this product. There are two types of these terminals. This one with connecting wires perpendicular to the prong whilst the other is a linear connection. It accepts 16sq.mm wire Thank you! Found them in the Hager catalog: CobusK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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