Hello All

Hoping you can put my mind at ease as I've looked over the internet and other forums with various answers but nothing ultimately conclusive.
I did realize at some point that i did something silly.

First the equipment:
My Inverter - Mecer 1200 VA - Modified sine wave
My surge protector - ELECTRICMATE 1 X 16AMP + 1 X SCHUKO HIGH LEVEL SURGE PROTECTED ADAPTOR - GENTECH (gentechindustries.co.za)

Second - How it was connected at the time:
a) Inverter was plugged OUT of the wall socket (battery mode)
b) Extension cable went across where another extension cable plugs into it and goes to 2 multiplugs that 2 pc's and router and ONT are plugged into (See attached)

So, i plugged the surge protector into the extension cord as seen in the screenshot attached - while the inverter made a weird "bzzz" then realized my computers weren't recieving power.
So, i thought well "that is odd" and took out the surge protector once, turned on my PC , no problem, then did it again - without issue again.
The inverter stayed on the entire time.

Then i looked at the manual and had a mini stroke - "Dont plug into inverter"
Baring in mind every "seems" fine now

Now my question is - were my PC's at any point in danger of electrical damage?

I cannot find any information online as to "why its bad or what the potential damage could be"
 

16 minutes ago, aggressiveGrey said:

Hello All

Hoping you can put my mind at ease as I've looked over the internet and other forums with various answers but nothing ultimately conclusive.
I did realize at some point that i did something silly.

First the equipment:
My Inverter - Mecer 1200 VA - Modified sine wave
My surge protector - ELECTRICMATE 1 X 16AMP + 1 X SCHUKO HIGH LEVEL SURGE PROTECTED ADAPTOR - GENTECH (gentechindustries.co.za)

Second - How it was connected at the time:
a) Inverter was plugged OUT of the wall socket (battery mode)
b) Extension cable went across where another extension cable plugs into it and goes to 2 multiplugs that 2 pc's and router and ONT are plugged into (See attached)

So, i plugged the surge protector into the extension cord as seen in the screenshot attached - while the inverter made a weird "bzzz" then realized my computers weren't recieving power.
So, i thought well "that is odd" and took out the surge protector once, turned on my PC , no problem, then did it again - without issue again.
The inverter stayed on the entire time.

Then i looked at the manual and had a mini stroke - "Dont plug into inverter"
Baring in mind every "seems" fine now

Now my question is - were my PC's at any point in danger of electrical damage?

I cannot find any information online as to "why its bad or what the potential damage could be"
 

If the inverter still works you should be ok remember any surge protection device needs to be on the ac input side when using inverters it should have been a problem if your inverter was an true sine wave inverter( nice smooth sinewave without distortions) being a square wave output inverter it had a reaction to the Mov's( metal oxide varistors) inside the surge plug. The surge multiplug needs to be in the 16amp wall socket supplied by Eskom( db board).

2 minutes ago, TaliaB said:

If the inverter still works you should be ok remember any surge protection device needs to be on the ac input side when using inverters it should have been a problem if your inverter was an true sine wave inverter( nice smooth sinewave without distortions) being a square wave output inverter it had a reaction to the Mov's( metal oxide varistors) inside the surge plug. The surge multiplug needs to be in the 16amp wall socket supplied by Eskom( db board).

Ironically - im less worried about the inverter - super worried about the computers

25 minutes ago, aggressiveGrey said:

Hello All

Hoping you can put my mind at ease as I've looked over the internet and other forums with various answers but nothing ultimately conclusive.
I did realize at some point that i did something silly.

First the equipment:
My Inverter - Mecer 1200 VA - Modified sine wave
My surge protector - ELECTRICMATE 1 X 16AMP + 1 X SCHUKO HIGH LEVEL SURGE PROTECTED ADAPTOR - GENTECH (gentechindustries.co.za)

Second - How it was connected at the time:
a) Inverter was plugged OUT of the wall socket (battery mode)
b) Extension cable went across where another extension cable plugs into it and goes to 2 multiplugs that 2 pc's and router and ONT are plugged into (See attached)

So, i plugged the surge protector into the extension cord as seen in the screenshot attached - while the inverter made a weird "bzzz" then realized my computers weren't recieving power.
So, i thought well "that is odd" and took out the surge protector once, turned on my PC , no problem, then did it again - without issue again.
The inverter stayed on the entire time.

Then i looked at the manual and had a mini stroke - "Dont plug into inverter"
Baring in mind every "seems" fine now

Now my question is - were my PC's at any point in danger of electrical damage?

I cannot find any information online as to "why its bad or what the potential damage could be"
 

If the inverter still works you should be ok remember any surge protection device needs to be on the ac input side when using inverters it should have been a problem if your inverter was an true sine wave inverter( nice smooth sinewave without distortions) being a square wave output inverter it had a reaction to the Mov's( metal oxide varistors) inside the surge plug. The surge multiplug needs to be in the 16amp wall socket supplied by Eskom( db board). 

3 minutes ago, TaliaB said:

If the inverter still works you should be ok remember any surge protection device needs to be on the ac input side when using inverters it should have been a problem if your inverter was an true sine wave inverter( nice smooth sinewave without distortions) being a square wave output inverter it had a reaction to the Mov's( metal oxide varistors) inside the surge plug. The surge multiplug needs to be in the 16amp wall socket supplied by Eskom( db board). 

I did realize it after it happened, the whole supplied by Eskom bit - but ye not finding much info online as to what any "effects" would be in doing the "mistake" that i made... and a few times too.

1 hour ago, aggressiveGrey said:

So, i plugged the surge protector into the extension cord as seen in the screenshot attached - while the inverter made a weird "bzzz" then realized my computers weren't recieving power.

Why would you want to use a surge protector to begin with? Yes, there are numerous rumors to the alleged benefit of it. And if at all it only makes some sense right at the input from the grid. If you are in a region with underground service - forget about it! Even with over head connection the risk is extremely remote. One may argue that there are lots of high voltage overhead lines feeding the low voltage distribution that are exposed to lightning. That's correct. However those are protected with their own surge protectors. The power companies do this to protect their own equipment like cables and transformers.

Another thought is that in today's electronic prepaid meters there must already be some sort of surge protection to protect their own electronics.

2 minutes ago, Beat said:

Why would you want to use a surge protector to begin with? Yes, there are numerous rumors to the alleged benefit of it. And if at all it only makes some sense right at the input from the grid. If you are in a region with underground service - forget about it! Even with over head connection the risk is extremely remote. One may argue that there are lots of high voltage overhead lines feeding the low voltage distribution that are exposed to lightning. That's correct. However those are protected with their own surge protectors. The power companies do this to protect their own equipment like cables and transformers.

Another thought is that in today's electronic prepaid meters there must already be some sort of surge protection to protect their own electronics.

Ye was more ignorance than anything, basically "in case" loadshedding cause surge..

But ye, im going nuerotic... because i don't have the knowledge of what potentially could of happened by doing what i said in OP

Bump

You don't need a surge protector after your inverter. It's not going to play nice with square (modified) wave. Your computers are fine if they still power up.

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/10340/is-it-safe-to-use-surge-protector-with-12vdc-mobile-power-inverter

Edited September 6, 20232 yr by jbroo

11 hours ago, jbroo said:

You don't need a surge protector after your inverter. It's not going to play nice with square (modified) wave. Your computers are fine if they still power up.

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/10340/is-it-safe-to-use-surge-protector-with-12vdc-mobile-power-inverter

Any logical way to think otherwise even if they power up? Just kinda want to understand if theres a scenario where it had some effect

Not really. Unless they are exhibiting problems or reporting errors, they are probably fine. Not really sure what you're looking for here...

10 minutes ago, jbroo said:

Not really. Unless they are exhibiting problems or reporting errors, they are probably fine. Not really sure what you're looking for here...

well in my OP i stated:
Now my question is - were my PC's at any point in danger of electrical damage?
I cannot find any information online as to "why its bad or what the potential damage could be"

and

11 minutes ago, jbroo said:

they are probably fine

Probably here is the keyword, because i dont know, seems nobody else knows the "practicality" of what generally happens in this situation nor can i find conclusive thoughts about it online

There seems to be a fair amount of information on the internet, depending on what you search for.

https://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=31105&seqNum=12

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Utxdioq4lNk

https://www.velocitymicro.com/blog/top-10-signs-of-power-supply-failure/

I hope that I am posting in the correct heading.

I have a Sacolor 5kw Invertor and a Dreichman 4.8KWH battery.  The only power used in my house that does not go through the Solar Power System - that direct from the utility - is the Geyser.  Gas stove and oven used.

There is a wall plug next to my wifes and my bed.  Each wall socket has a "multiplug" so that we can plug in cell phone charges, bedside lights etc. My wife side has a large multiplug as it supplies power to a bed side light, cell phone charger, iPad charger, a hospital bed and an air mattress to prevent bedsores.   The hospital bed and the air matteress  have electronic boxes that, in the bed case, raise, lower, head up and down, legs up and down, knees up and down.  In the air mattress has two air channels that inflate and deflates independently too different pressures, simulating a massage and prevents bed sores.

The electronic box on the bed has blown 3 times, the latest this afternoon.  The first time guarantee replaced, the 2nd cost me R3K and now again.  On the 2nd time I purchased from the hospital bed repair man a surge protector from Clearline.  

All other items on the same wall plug are OK.  iPad, Air mattress, and radio and a TV. and none had any effects on the two previous occasions that the bed control box blew.  The rest of the house all OK but on different circuit breakers.  TV, computers, fridges, microwave etc.

My question is does the inverter act as a UPS as well and eliminate any chance of any power surge?

I can see a problem coming up when I claim on the guarantee from Clearline and the hospital bed technician.

Hope you guys can help

 

 

 

1 hour ago, RookieRod said:

I hope that I am posting in the correct heading.

I have a Sacolor 5kw Invertor and a Dreichman 4.8KWH battery.  The only power used in my house that does not go through the Solar Power System - that direct from the utility - is the Geyser.  Gas stove and oven used.

There is a wall plug next to my wifes and my bed.  Each wall socket has a "multiplug" so that we can plug in cell phone charges, bedside lights etc. My wife side has a large multiplug as it supplies power to a bed side light, cell phone charger, iPad charger, a hospital bed and an air mattress to prevent bedsores.   The hospital bed and the air matteress  have electronic boxes that, in the bed case, raise, lower, head up and down, legs up and down, knees up and down.  In the air mattress has two air channels that inflate and deflates independently too different pressures, simulating a massage and prevents bed sores.

The electronic box on the bed has blown 3 times, the latest this afternoon.  The first time guarantee replaced, the 2nd cost me R3K and now again.  On the 2nd time I purchased from the hospital bed repair man a surge protector from Clearline.  

All other items on the same wall plug are OK.  iPad, Air mattress, and radio and a TV. and none had any effects on the two previous occasions that the bed control box blew.  The rest of the house all OK but on different circuit breakers.  TV, computers, fridges, microwave etc.

My question is does the inverter act as a UPS as well and eliminate any chance of any power surge?

I can see a problem coming up when I claim on the guarantee from Clearline and the hospital bed technician.

Hope you guys can help

 

 

 

I don't know the inverters operation when working as a UPS but would think when you have grid then the power from the grid goes via a bypass directly to your loads. 

This means any surges within a certain range will be fed directly to your loads. When in battery mode the inverter supplies the loads from PV or battery and this should not have any surges. 

Just how I think yours would work. 

@RookieRod

The controller most probably have sensitive electronics where the inverter during pass through will not protect agains surges like @Scorp007said. Unfortunately you will need an online double conversion ups on the socket powering the mattress control unit. When it comes to safeguarding critical loads, only online double conversion ups technology protects fully against all  power problems.

39 minutes ago, TaliaB said:

@RookieRod

The controller most probably have sensitive electronics where the inverter during pass through will not protect agains surges like @Scorp007said. Unfortunately you will need an online double conversion ups on the socket powering the mattress control unit. When it comes to safeguarding critical loads, only online double conversion ups technology protects fully against all  power problems.

I do belief after 3 mishaps of surges for the same item's controller I do belief you have earned it to get the type of UPS as is suggested here. 

@RookieRod just ensure you do get the power requirement right for when the different functions are used on the bed before doing shopping for a dedicated UPS. 

 

Thanks for this.  So will the surge protector that Ellies and ClearLine sell help?

https://ellies.co.za/product/surge-safe-power-protector/

https://www.takealot.com/clearline-loadshedding-surge-protector/PLID91700748?gad=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAgK2qBhCHARIsAGACuzmH9Mtps0a00pbHqiqB4J5xJ9MmaLfXfP4QCIu8pID4QomEVo1RyhEaAr7fEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

 

18 hours ago, RookieRod said:

The electronic box on the bed has blown 3 times, the latest this afternoon. 

You did not mention whether it happened during line mode or battery mode of the inverter. Frankly I doubt that the cause is surge from the grid, rather the device is faulty, since no other appliance has suffered. Surges from the grid are rather rare events, in particular if you have underground service. However what could affect sensitive electronics is the 20ms switch over interruption when the inverter switches from battery to line mode and vice versa. In my house with no surge protection no such problem has occurred yet.

2 hours ago, RookieRod said:

Thanks for this.  So will the surge protector that Ellies and ClearLine sell help?

https://ellies.co.za/product/surge-safe-power-protector/

https://www.takealot.com/clearline-loadshedding-surge-protector/PLID91700748?gad=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAgK2qBhCHARIsAGACuzmH9Mtps0a00pbHqiqB4J5xJ9MmaLfXfP4QCIu8pID4QomEVo1RyhEaAr7fEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

 

Do you have surge arrestors fitted in your db board? This type below 

 

Send us pictures of your main db board and the essential db board 

19 hours ago, RookieRod said:

The electronic box on the bed has blown 3 times, the latest this afternoon.  The first time guarantee replaced, the 2nd cost me R3K and now again.  On the 2nd time I purchased from the hospital bed repair man a surge protector from Clearline.  

It sounds like your inverter is outputting DC at times. A surge arrestor won't protect you from that.

1 hour ago, Beat said:

You did not mention whether it happened during line mode or battery mode of the inverter. Frankly I doubt that the cause is surge from the grid, rather the device is faulty, since no other appliance has suffered. Surges from the grid are rather rare events, in particular if you have underground service. However what could affect sensitive electronics is the 20ms switch over interruption when the inverter switches from battery to line mode and vice versa. In my house with no surge protection no such problem has occurred yet.

I really do not know.  But I live in Pretoria with the Wapadrand Substation issues.  We have not had load shedding for about 18 months.  So its not load shedding.  But could be when going from battery power to utility power and I don't know when this switches.

I do not have any of those surge protectors fitted to my DB board.  Long story, but not for now