Hi all

We are in the lucky position to have won a Sungrow system towards the end of last year. Couldn't contain my excitement, until realising it is excluding installation, and what the installation costs are.

So I got 4 quotes (3 of which are certified to install the system), ranging from R20k to R35k.

Is this the going rate for installations (most expensive portion is the DB rebuild/split to essential/non-essential)?

5 minutes ago, LandyMan said:

Hi all

We are in the lucky position to have won a Sungrow system towards the end of last year. Couldn't contain my excitement, until realising it is excluding installation, and what the installation costs are.

So I got 4 quotes (3 of which are certified to install the system), ranging from R20k to R35k.

Is this the going rate for installations (most expensive portion is the DB rebuild/split to essential/non-essential)?

What did you win? Inverter, battery and panels? Or everything required for an installation? There are quite a few ancillary items - circuit breakers, cabling etc. Plus these guys are not making any money on the components you already have.

I'd not look a gift horse in the mouth. If you can be in the solar game for 35K that's a very good deal.

Make sure the installer will issue a COC.

Edited January 10, 20242 yr by Bobster.

18 minutes ago, Bobster. said:

What did you win? Inverter, battery and panels? Or everything required for an installation? There are quite a few ancillary items - circuit breakers, cabling etc. Plus these guys are not making any money on the components you already have.

I'd not look a gift horse in the mouth. If you can be in the solar game for 35K that's a very good deal.

Make sure the installer will issue a COC.

Howdee. Inverter and 3 batteries. Come as a plug an play solution. I do understand that there are ancillary components (Built my own 5.2kwh trolley, so get what is involved) but the price for DB rebuild seems high - above R10k in each instance.

I am definitely not looking any gift horse in the mouth, just looking for the most affordable installation option, and some feedback if this appears to be correct for going rate on installation costs.

This is the kit: https://jcsolarpanels.co.za/shop/battery-backup-kits/5kw-backup-power-kits/6kw-sungrow-inverter-with-9-6kwh-battery/

Why not consider adding panels? That would sweeten the deal for an installer, but will also give you a chance to make your installation costs back and then some. Should have a very low payback period, estimated 2-3yrs if the inverter and batteries are for free, and then your home's electricity bill can be mostly wiped out for the long run.

Just thinking out loud here. I see that the inverter has a spec of 13000VA AC input. Can the manufacturer confirm if this means it's got up to a 13kW pass-through current? If so, would it be an option to just put the entire house on the inverter, and not split essential vs non-essential? Too risky with just a 6kW power and 9.6kWh battery backup?

Edited January 10, 20242 yr by GreenFields

Hi guys, from an installers perspective: A standard single phase installation that the customer has acquired the equipment and needs me to install without solar panels. standard installation with additions of changeover and AC protection DB with indicator lights and CoC in the ball park of between R18k - R23k if its not complex. 

The factors that are variable and influence pricing. AC cable lengths std 5m AC cable easy but when ones garage is 30m cable length away and there is ducting into and out of a roof you start to realize that there is more time and effort to this. 

Also depends on if there is a current existing CoC or do we need to issue a full new CoC and supplementary for the new alternative AC power solution. I use Schneider and Hager as my preferred brand of AC switch gear. A full CoC involves testing of every circuit and plug point.

All these variables come into the equation...

Now when you add panels then you get the DC Combiner box and I use Noark switchgear there. A DC combiner box can add between R2.5k to R5k onto the price depending on the configuration. A battery isolator also depending on size can be along the lines of R3k. Then DC battery cables which are also not cheap.

Then PV DC cable and Bosal metal conduit and earth spikes etc. 

Dont get me wrong you can get this system up and running or barely so. Doesnt mean it will be safe nor will it be functional for a long time. But there are good operators and then some chancers. 

Where do installers generate their revenue from: Margin on equipment sales (We get equipment at wholesale prices then sell at Consumer prices). Now once you supply the equipment you remove a large portion of revenue. So the installation only fee with required accessories is unfortunately higher because there is less earning capacity left.

Like any contractor selection, do they come recommended because word of mouth is crucial in this game. Do they provide after sales support and are they contactable post installation?

Do they have a google business page and a review section with more than 10 reviews? 

You spending hard earned cash. Choose wisely.

1 hour ago, GreenFields said:

Why not consider adding panels? That would sweeten the deal for an installer, but will also give you a chance to make your installation costs back and then some. Should have a very low payback period, estimated 2-3yrs if the panel and batteries are for free, and then your home's electricity bill can be mostly wiped out for the long run.

Just thinking out loud here. I see that the inverter has a spec of 13000VA AC input. Can the manufacturer confirm if this means it's got up to a 13kW pass-through current? If so, would it be an option to just put the entire house on the inverter, and not split essential vs non-essential? Too risky with just a 6kW power and 9.6kWh battery backup?

Because panels will add and additional R50k to the bill, which I don't have

Most people when they say they don't have money they mean they don't have the cash.

I will echo @GreenFields that it's worth using credit to include pv panels with the installation.

1 hour ago, GreenFields said:

Why not consider adding panels? That would sweeten the deal for an installer, but will also give you a chance to make your installation costs back and then some. 

Whilst the window for a tax rebate on panels is still open

43 minutes ago, LandyMan said:

Because panels will add and additional R50k to the bill, which I don't have

Hmmm... so you would have solar system with 10kWh of battery and a 6kW inverter for, worst case, R85K. And a tax refund to come on the panels. I'd break into the piggy bank for that.

Seriously.

57k is the retail price for my BATTERY, uninstalled and just standing in a corner doing nothing.

48 minutes ago, LandyMan said:

Because panels will add and additional R50k to the bill

Depends how much solar energy you wish to add.
Here you could have around 6,5kWp for R22k which will give you a very good return at half the cost of what you anticipated.
https://www.inverter-warehouse.co.za/collections/specials/products/jinko-solar-panel-tiger-555w-mono-facial

22 minutes ago, zsde said:

Depends how much solar energy you wish to add.
Here you could have around 6,5kWp for R22k which will give you a very good return at half the cost of what you anticipated.
https://www.inverter-warehouse.co.za/collections/specials/products/jinko-solar-panel-tiger-555w-mono-facial

BUT, that is just the panels ... installation for 12 of those are R23k ... I have the quotes already

7 minutes ago, LandyMan said:

BUT, that is just the panels ... installation for 12 of those are R23k ... I have the quotes already

Fair enough, make that R45K, less the 25% tax rebate on new panels, so you'd be spending R39,5K on the panels, and let's say R20K extra for the inverter installation, make it a nice round R60K in total, although you might get by with fewer panels.

I do think you should seriously consider options for financing this system, because it could generate just over R25K of electricity annually, roughly 40% low-risk returns, nevermind having almost no loadshedding.

17 hours ago, GreenFields said:

Fair enough, make that R45K, less the 25% tax rebate on new panels, so you'd be spending R39,5K on the panels, and let's say R20K extra for the inverter installation, make it a nice round R60K in total, although you might get by with fewer panels.

I do think you should seriously consider options for financing this system, because it could generate just over R25K of electricity annually, roughly 40% low-risk returns, nevermind having almost no loadshedding.

I hear you, and after your initial post, I am now considering this ... trying to work out what my Eskom savings will be should I manage to cycle between PV and batteries

35 minutes ago, LandyMan said:

I hear you, and after your initial post, I am now considering this ... trying to work out what my Eskom savings will be should I manage to cycle between PV and batteries

Calculate your daily usage and try to ascertain whether most of your load is during the day or night. If it is possible to shift more load to during the day, your savings could be massive.

30 minutes ago, LandyMan said:

I hear you, and after your initial post, I am now considering this ... trying to work out what my Eskom savings will be should I manage to cycle between PV and batteries

15kwh of batteries is above average, you need enough panels to charge batteries and run daytime loads. If those daytime loads include a geyser we are looking at another 15kwh. So your panels need to produce around 30kwh per day. 

That brings us to your stove if it's electric and on non essentials that will mean most of your municipal usage will be from the stove. You can reduce it by buying a  slow cooker and airfryer. Which you can run in the day on PV.

If you already have a Gas stove and a solar geyser then this system will get you to over 90% self sufficient barring bad weather. Having said that panels still produce through the clouds. The average for my system since instalation is 650kwh per month but this December it produced just over 570kwh it just felt worse because more people were at home and we did buy more from the municipality but the numbers don't lie.

Going solar you do have to know what is using electricity and how much it's using.

23 hours ago, LandyMan said:

Built my own 5.2kwh trolley, so get what is involved

With the experience you already have, is it not possible to do the work yourself and get a certified electrician to sign off on your work? 

2 hours ago, Buyeye said:

15kwh of batteries is above average, you need enough panels to charge batteries and run daytime loads. If those daytime loads include a geyser we are looking at another 15kwh. So your panels need to produce around 30kwh per day. 

That brings us to your stove if it's electric and on non essentials that will mean most of your municipal usage will be from the stove. You can reduce it by buying a  slow cooker and airfryer. Which you can run in the day on PV.

If you already have a Gas stove and a solar geyser then this system will get you to over 90% self sufficient barring bad weather. Having said that panels still produce through the clouds. The average for my system since instalation is 650kwh per month but this December it produced just over 570kwh it just felt worse because more people were at home and we did buy more from the municipality but the numbers don't lie.

Going solar you do have to know what is using electricity and how much it's using.

They are smaller batteries (around 3.2kwh), so he only has 9.6kwh of batteries and not 15kwh.

I also don't feel a geyser should be using 15kwh per day, I recently had a new 150L geyser installed - it is on my flat concrete roof, so it is exposed to the elements and without a geyser blanket. 

Average consumption for the geyser is around 3kwh to 5kwh per day, the geyser is actually on a sonoff timer which runs from 11am to 2pm and the water is hot enough for my GF and I to shower the next morning.

This could increase depending on whether there is more than one geyser and how many people make use of it etc. Although I think 15kwh per day from a single geyser is unlikely (which is a good thing).

 

I have 6200W of panels and averaged around 960 - 1000kwh of solar production per month, over the past 3 months.

Lots of variables in terms of solar production though.

16 minutes ago, PsyCLown said:

They are smaller batteries (around 3.2kwh), so he only has 9.6kwh of batteries and not 15kwh.

I also don't feel a geyser should be using 15kwh per day, I recently had a new 150L geyser installed - it is on my flat concrete roof, so it is exposed to the elements and without a geyser blanket. 

Average consumption for the geyser is around 3kwh to 5kwh per day, the geyser is actually on a sonoff timer which runs from 11am to 2pm and the water is hot enough for my GF and I to shower the next morning.

This could increase depending on whether there is more than one geyser and how many people make use of it etc. Although I think 15kwh per day from a single geyser is unlikely (which is a good thing).

 

I have 6200W of panels and averaged around 960 - 1000kwh of solar production per month, over the past 3 months.

Lots of variables in terms of solar production though.

I was including everything washing machine, dryer with the geyser in the 15kwh(all daytime usage). I was actually worried it might be low for a 200l geyser.

How did the rains affect your production in December?

Edited January 11, 20242 yr by Buyeye

Just now, Buyeye said:

I was including everything washing machine, dryer with the geyser in the 15kwh(all daytime usage). I was actually worried it might be low for a 200l geyser.

Ahh ok, makes sense.

I guess that would also vary per house hold, how many loads of washing they do per month and do they use a tumble dryer and do they have a dishwasher etc.

 

I think 15 to 30 units per day for the average house hold is reasonable. If one has kids or appliances / equipment which uses more or a pool then this would likely increase.

 

Generating 30 units per day is not unreasonable with 11 or 12x 550W panels. I managed 20 units yesterday despite the poor weather in Johannesburg.

Today is not looking as good with the rain and I am estimating I will yield 7 to 10 units today with the rain.

3 hours ago, Buyeye said:

15kwh of batteries is above average, you need enough panels to charge batteries and run daytime loads. If those daytime loads include a geyser we are looking at another 15kwh. So your panels need to produce around 30kwh per day. 

That brings us to your stove if it's electric and on non essentials that will mean most of your municipal usage will be from the stove. You can reduce it by buying a  slow cooker and airfryer. Which you can run in the day on PV.

If you already have a Gas stove and a solar geyser then this system will get you to over 90% self sufficient barring bad weather. Having said that panels still produce through the clouds. The average for my system since instalation is 650kwh per month but this December it produced just over 570kwh it just felt worse because more people were at home and we did buy more from the municipality but the numbers don't lie.

Going solar you do have to know what is using electricity and how much it's using.

Solar Geyser and gas stove was already done when we moved in 11 years ago, so that is luckily covered

2 hours ago, Solarphile said:

With the experience you already have, is it not possible to do the work yourself and get a certified electrician to sign off on your work? 

That is possible, and I have considered it, but now looking at doing panels as well, the landscape changes to a bushy field way above my paygrade

If I may ask is this system a High Voltage system by Sungrow? I do know they made a HV residential model that stacks in Blocks...

1 hour ago, Steve87 said:

If I may ask is this system a High Voltage system by Sungrow? I do know they made a HV residential model that stacks in Blocks...

Yes it is

Edited January 11, 20242 yr by LandyMan

Do you have a suitable space setup that is not far from your DB? If so what cable length estimated distance away from the DB? Their system is quite a straight forward plug & play system. Without Solar panels this is a one day install at most. The work required is basic sparky splitting of Essentials & Non essentials.

Awesome system & I think Sungrow are ahead of the pack in terms of the use of High Voltage DC for residential projects. The systems of the future will all be using this architecture in the next decade. It's much more efficient & cable diameter is kept small because the voltage is high. 

I did see this product marketed a lot but the uptake was not a lot due to the fact it's a not established brand here in SA but Sungrow are a quality brand & well trusted in the overseas markets. 

Post pics for us when it's up & running. You are definitely one of the first to install these on our forum!!

9 minutes ago, Steve87 said:

Do you have a suitable space setup that is not far from your DB? If so what cable length estimated distance away from the DB? Their system is quite a straight forward plug & play system. Without Solar panels this is a one day install at most. The work required is basic sparky splitting of Essentials & Non essentials.

Awesome system & I think Sungrow are ahead of the pack in terms of the use of High Voltage DC for residential projects. The systems of the future will all be using this architecture in the next decade. It's much more efficient & cable diameter is kept small because the voltage is high. 

I did see this product marketed a lot but the uptake was not a lot due to the fact it's a not established brand here in SA but Sungrow are a quality brand & well trusted in the overseas markets. 

Post pics for us when it's up & running. You are definitely one of the first to install these on our forum!!

So where this trolley is now, the batteries will be stacked, and the inverter to the left and slightly lower than the DB board. Yep, it is pretty much plug and play, especially the batteries. In process to determine what is the Estate requirement in terms of their Master Electrician sign-off and any other requirements