So firstly I live in western cape and have power supplied by city of Cape Town and I have a prepaid meter installed. Middle of last year I had a system installed by someone I was assured by a family member to be legit and now almost a year later I started finding out he maybe wasn’t so legit and that there’s problems with the installation which would prevent it getting certified, after I had to call out someone else about certification because the guy who installed the first system never came up with the certificate he promised. So it was suggested by the new person that I replace some, actually most of the stuff, so I just want to see if I can get some advice or suggestions because I don’t want to get burned again. I am 70+ years old so it was impossible for me to get onto my roof to see what the first guy had done, but I’ve been told by the new company I contacted about certification that there’s a lot wrong like wires from the panels  just laying on the roof, plugs deteriorating after less than a year, not enough fuses and multiple panels being joined together into single fuses etc. I will tell you what I know about the system and problems I encountered and also upload some photos of the stuff I can get to and also the system the new company suggested. 
 

So the system I have is a Sunmagic 5kW   48v hybrid inverter, N Energy 100ah battery, 6x 460w Canadian panels and 2x 560w  Canadian panels. The wires says 1x 4mm2 running from the panels and thicker wires between battery and inverter. The panels I was told is connected up in 2 parallel groups of 4 panels in each. I had a problem where the circuit breakers from the panels would trip if I don’t switch off I group of panels between 10:00 in the morning and 16:00 in the afternoon. There’s a double pole circuit breaker on both the positive and negative wires from the panels, and it’s always the breaker on the positive side which trips. I heard someone discussing that there shouldn’t be breakers on both the pos and neg lines but haven’t had anyone tell me if it’s right or wrong. 
I also have a 19kw Alliance pool heat pump which says it’s running current is 0.29 ~ 4.03kw which is not installed yet so the new company suggested I get either a 8kW inverter or I use my current sunmagic 5kW alone for the heat pump if I have a new 8kW inverter installed.

The new installation suggested by the company is Solarsynk 8kW inverter, Hubble 5kW am2 battery and additional 10x 460w Canadian panels and new breakers wires and all other small parts required for the new system installation. 
i asked if I could use the current N energy 5kW battery with the new Hubble 5kW battery they want to install but they said no because the Hubble is 51v and N energy is 48v. 
Some things I read about in your forums was I noticed you do get the Hubble in 48v as well, would that make it possible to add the 2 batteries together and if still not, would replacing the N energy battery be necessary considering it’s only about 6 months old. Also I read about Hubble am5 batteries and that they apparently better than the am2. 

On 2024/04/05 at 8:12 AM, Engela said:

So it was suggested by the new person that I replace some, actually most of the stuff

I'm in Jhb and not so familiar with Cape Town, but you could ask the new installer for proof of registration with the Department of Labour as a electrical contractor and proof of his wiremans or masters license That way you know he is licensed to do electrical work and sign the Certificate of Compliance. 

It sounds that the new installer picked up on lots of non-compliance issues and will not sign off if it's not fixed or even replaced. You could also get a second inspection/opinion to make sure you are dealing with a installer that won't let you down again.

 

 

On 2024/04/05 at 8:12 AM, Engela said:

So firstly I live in western cape and have power supplied by city of Cape Town and I have a prepaid meter installed. Middle of last year I had a system installed by someone I was assured by a family member to be legit and now almost a year later I started finding out he maybe wasn’t so legit and that there’s problems with the installation which would prevent it getting certified, after I had to call out someone else about certification because the guy who installed the first system never came up with the certificate he promised. So it was suggested by the new person that I replace some, actually most of the stuff, so I just want to see if I can get some advice or suggestions because I don’t want to get burned again. I am 70+ years old so it was impossible for me to get onto my roof to see what the first guy had done, but I’ve been told by the new company I contacted about certification that there’s a lot wrong like wires from the panels  just laying on the roof, plugs deteriorating after less than a year, not enough fuses and multiple panels being joined together into single fuses etc. I will tell you what I know about the system and problems I encountered and also upload some photos of the stuff I can get to and also the system the new company suggested. 
 

So the system I have is a Sunmagic 5kW   48v hybrid inverter, N Energy 100ah battery, 6x 460w Canadian panels and 2x 560w  Canadian panels. The wires says 1x 4mm2 running from the panels and thicker wires between battery and inverter. The panels I was told is connected up in 2 parallel groups of 4 panels in each. I had a problem where the circuit breakers from the panels would trip if I don’t switch off I group of panels between 10:00 in the morning and 16:00 in the afternoon. There’s a double pole circuit breaker on both the positive and negative wires from the panels, and it’s always the breaker on the positive side which trips. I heard someone discussing that there shouldn’t be breakers on both the pos and neg lines but haven’t had anyone tell me if it’s right or wrong. 
I also have a 19kw Alliance pool heat pump which says it’s running current is 0.29 ~ 4.03kw which is not installed yet so the new company suggested I get either a 8kW inverter or I use my current sunmagic 5kW alone for the heat pump if I have a new 8kW inverter installed.

The new installation suggested by the company is Solarsynk 8kW inverter, Hubble 5kW am2 battery and additional 10x 460w Canadian panels and new breakers wires and all other small parts required for the new system installation. 
i asked if I could use the current N energy 5kW battery with the new Hubble 5kW battery they want to install but they said no because the Hubble is 51v and N energy is 48v. 
Some things I read about in your forums was I noticed you do get the Hubble in 48v as well, would that make it possible to add the 2 batteries together and if still not, would replacing the N energy battery be necessary considering it’s only about 6 months old. Also I read about Hubble am5 batteries and that they apparently better than the am2. 

Just want to clarify your needs and priorities on this.

I don't want to comment on the workmanship except to say it obviously must comply to standards and be safely installed, and be worthy of a compliance certificate.

Cape Town introduced a requirement for inverters to be on a pre-approved list. You'd have to check if your current inverter is on that list but I doubt it. Best is to stick with an approved inverter.

Just wondering of the start-up surge power you could expect on that pool heater, and whether  the combo of 5kW Nenergy and 5kW Sunmagic inverter will be capable of even starting it, or running it for any length of time. Though I could be proven wrong.

What is your intention regarding the pool heater, and how critical is it? Should it be backed up fully from battery power even through loadshedding? Is it okay if it shuts down during loadshedding?

Was the 5kW system sufficient to supply your needs before the introduction of the pool heater? Do you just want to meet essential needs with a compliant system, or is the intention to upgrade significantly to provide a comprehensive power supply for the new pool heater.

What is your budgetary constraint? Are you ready to chuck out the old and just start from a clean slate, as the installer has suggested, and fork out upwards of R100K?

If it was me and my money, my cheap-out plan would be to replace the 5kW Sunmagic with a 5kW Sunsynk/Deye inverter. Keep the exisitng 6x460W panels in a string on MPPT1 (maybe add one more of these panels), and get an extra 3, maybe 4 of the 560W Canadian panels onto MPPT2, for a string of 5 or 6. Depends on roof orientation. With that, just keep the pool heater as a non-essential load that may cut out during loadshedding, and use solar power to supplement, not replace Eskom supply to the heater. The Nenergy battery doesn't seem to have comms, and it doesn't have great reviews, but as long as it's genuinely a working-state 48V battery, and not a 24V battery, I'd first try to run the inverter on just this battery in Voltage mode, before buying a new one.

Might not be exactly what you want or need, but I think that could be your baseline for a compliant system. Maybe ask an opinion from some of the installers on this forum. @TaliaB comes to mind.

 

 

Edited April 7, 20242 yr by GreenFields

@GreenFields Yes you are spot on. The Energy 48V 100Ah battery only has a 30A discharge rate. Then the 19kW heat pump should refer to the heating capacity and the actual power draw could be around 4-6 kW. Here one will have to see the specs to be sure. Even at 4 kW that battery cannot cope.

Further the current inverter is not on the CoCT approved list as you suspected. 

A good call to keep the 460W panels on the proposed new inverter MPPT1 and add 4-5 at a minimum for CT on MPPT2. 

Just a starting point to at least get a workable and registered inverter system. 

5 hours ago, GreenFields said:

Just want to clarify your needs and priorities on this.

I don't want to comment on the workmanship except to say it obviously must comply to standards and be safely installed, and be worthy of a compliance certificate.

Cape Town introduced a requirement for inverters to be on a pre-approved list. You'd have to check if your current inverter is on that list but I doubt it. Best is to stick with an approved inverter.

Just wondering of the start-up surge power you could expect on that pool heater, and whether  the combo of 5kW Nenergy and 5kW Sunmagic inverter will be capable of even starting it, or running it for any length of time. Though I could be proven wrong.

What is your intention regarding the pool heater, and how critical is it? Should it be backed up fully from battery power even through loadshedding? Is it okay if it shuts down during loadshedding?

Was the 5kW system sufficient to supply your needs before the introduction of the pool heater? Do you just want to meet essential needs with a compliant system, or is the intention to upgrade significantly to provide a comprehensive power supply for the new pool heater.

What is your budgetary constraint? Are you ready to chuck out the old and just start from a clean slate, as the installer has suggested, and fork out upwards of R100K?

If it was me and my money, my cheap-out plan would be to replace the 5kW Sunmagic with a 5kW Sunsynk/Deye inverter. Keep the exisitng 6x460W panels in a string on MPPT1 (maybe add one more of these panels), and get an extra 3, maybe 4 of the 560W Canadian panels onto MPPT2, for a string of 5 or 6. Depends on roof orientation. With that, just keep the pool heater as a non-essential load that may cut out during loadshedding, and use solar power to supplement, not replace Eskom supply to the heater. The Nenergy battery doesn't seem to have comms, and it doesn't have great reviews, but as long as it's genuinely a working-state 48V battery, and not a 24V battery, I'd first try to run the inverter on just this battery in Voltage mode, before buying a new one.

Might not be exactly what you want or need, but I think that could be your baseline for a compliant system. Maybe ask an opinion from some of the installers on this forum. @TaliaB comes to mind.

 

 

So the heat pump isn’t installed yet, it’s still sealed in its box. It says it max power usage is 4.06kw, I suspected it would be to big to run on the battery so I would be fine running it through AC power only but if it can’t then I would be willing to not have it installed at all. I have a hot water solar system so we don’t use a geyser for hot water at all, I also have induction stove top which don’t seem to use much power at all and can run from my current inverter and battery and even from the pannels quite fine. The most amps I’ve seen the inverter show was around 34a when it was running house and charging battery but normally it will only show around 12 to 21a if battery isn’t charging. My biggest problem with current system is that it trips the double pole circuit breakers if I have both groups of panels switched on between 10:00 and 16:00 on a sunny day, between those times I switch the 1 group of panels off and the other group charge battery and run house without problems.
It’s almost like the breakers heat up and then trip because once they trip I can’t just switch them on again immediately, usually takes about 10 minutes before they can be switched on again almost like they having to cool down. Also should there be breakers on both the positive and negative lines from the solar panels? 
 

anyway thanks so much for all the advice so far, I really appreciate it. Ive seen some videos on the sunsynk inverters and definitely want to get one to replace the sunmagic, if it’s on the list, I will check later if it is. Now I’m just wondering if it’s necessary to replace my current 5kW N Energy battery with a Hubble 5kW battery, since the battery is not 6 months old yet, haven’t even used 200 cycles yet. 
 

thank you 

 

#Sorry for the new account, when I posted from the other account it said it couldn’t post from this as I had to wait for confirmation so I tried posting original message as guest and it created a 2nd account, but I’m the same person who posted the original message.. Sorry if I caused any confusion.

Edited April 7, 20242 yr by SilverTongue
Added info to avoid confusion

48 minutes ago, SilverTongue said:

So the heat pump isn’t installed yet, it’s still sealed in its box. It says it max power usage is 4.06kw, I suspected it would be to big to run on the battery so I would be fine running it through AC power only but if it can’t then I would be willing to not have it installed at all. I have a hot water solar system so we don’t use a geyser for hot water at all, I also have induction stove top which don’t seem to use much power at all and can run from my current inverter and battery and even from the pannels quite fine. The most amps I’ve seen the inverter show was around 34a when it was running house and charging battery but normally it will only show around 12 to 21a if battery isn’t charging. My biggest problem with current system is that it trips the double pole circuit breakers if I have both groups of panels switched on between 10:00 and 16:00 on a sunny day, between those times I switch the 1 group of panels off and the other group charge battery and run house without problems.
It’s almost like the breakers heat up and then trip because once they trip I can’t just switch them on again immediately, usually takes about 10 minutes before they can be switched on again almost like they having to cool down. Also should there be breakers on both the positive and negative lines from the solar panels? 
 

anyway thanks so much for all the advice so far, I really appreciate it. Ive seen some videos on the sunsynk inverters and definitely want to get one to replace the sunmagic, if it’s on the list, I will check later if it is. Now I’m just wondering if it’s necessary to replace my current 5kW N Energy battery with a Hubble 5kW battery, since the battery is not 6 months old yet, haven’t even used 200 cycles yet. 
 

thank you 

 

#Sorry for the new account, when I posted from the other account it said it couldn’t post from this as I had to wait for confirmation so I tried posting original message as guest and it created a 2nd account, but I’m the same person who posted the original message.. Sorry if I caused any confusion.

The Energy battery is not worth keeping on another inverter. The spec do indicate it can only supply 30A continuesly which is about 1500W. It also does not have comms to the proposed new inverter. 

Yes the Sundynk/Deye is on the CoCT list. 

5 minutes ago, Scorp007 said:

The Energy battery is not worth keeping on another inverter. The spec do indicate it can only supply 30A continuesly which is about 1500W. It also does not have comms to the proposed new inverter. 

Yes the Sundynk/Deye is on the CoCT list. 

Thanks so much, I will go for another battery then. The company suggested 1 or maybe 2 of the Hubble 5kW am2 batteries because there’s a shop here in Cape Town which currently have them on special for R20k each, also saw they have the Hubble am5 for about R2000 more, do you know if there’s a difference, if one is better than the other. Is the Hubble batteries good or would you go for something else? I saw you get sunsynk batteries as well although they a bit more pricey, would they be better to use with the sunsynk inverter? 

26 minutes ago, SilverTongue said:

Thanks so much, I will go for another battery then. The company suggested 1 or maybe 2 of the Hubble 5kW am2 batteries because there’s a shop here in Cape Town which currently have them on special for R20k each, also saw they have the Hubble am5 for about R2000 more, do you know if there’s a difference, if one is better than the other. Is the Hubble batteries good or would you go for something else? I saw you get sunsynk batteries as well although they a bit more pricey, would they be better to use with the sunsynk inverter? 

The AM2's are a cobalt type Lithium Ion battery, possibly NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobalt) or LCO (Lithium Cobalt Oxide), those are the ones, likely to catch on fire, not that they would, necessarily, but personally I would, if you're sold on Hubble, look at the AM5's which are supposed to be LiFePO4 chemistry, which is what most solar batteries contain, they are pretty safe, I've never heard or read of LiFePO4's spontaneously or otherwise catching alight and are pretty much the norm at the moment for stationary energy storage use.

2 hours ago, SilverTongue said:

It’s almost like the breakers heat up and then trip because once they trip I can’t just switch them on again immediately, usually takes about 10 minutes before they can be switched on again almost like they having to cool down. Also should there be breakers on both the positive and negative lines from the solar panels? 

Firstly, welcome to the forum.

The DC breakers in the solar lines might have loose connections which will cause them to "trip" as they heat up, or else they are under spec'ed for the current.

At NIGHT (when there is no sun) open the DC combiner box and check all screw terminals are tight, or get someone who is qualified to check.

Hope you get a CoC with your new machine, and are happy with its operation.👍

5 hours ago, SilverTongue said:

Is the Hubble batteries good or would you go for something else?

Good evening @SilverTongue Sorry to hear about your bad experience with your previous installer but better to start on a clean slate and get a inverter that is on the Coct approved list. Personally i will not use Hubble in my installs. I would use Freedom Won, Greenrich  BSL or Sunsynk batteries paired with Deye or Sunsynk. 

6 hours ago, SilverTongue said:

Also should there be breakers on both the positive and negative lines from the solar panels? 

Yes normally double pole mcb DC rated.

 

 

6 hours ago, SilverTongue said:

It's almost like the breakers heat up and then trip because once they trip I can’t just switch them on again immediately, usually takes about 10 minutes before they can be switched on again

 Like @TimCamsaid might be loose connections incorrect rating or Ac rated mcb. That is a worrying situation Dc is not forgiving if not done correctly fire hazard comes to mind. Unfortunately i am not available at this stage due to health issues but contact Herholdts group Cpt they would refer you to a trusted installer.

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