Here is a very cool site to calc your potential generation, I tried Bellville Cape Town, and it worked: https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/

Thanks for all your hard work.

@The Terrible Triplett, great thread.

Just checking in again whether there is a definitive shopping list? Can you also explain how ESS works on the Multiplus? Do you know how well it compares against the Goodwe Hybrid Inverter and it's grid-tie backfeed limiting?

Also, if I prefer a Lithium-Ion solution, perhaps a FreedomWon Home 4/5 or Polytech or BYD Units, which would you recommend and in what configuration

Edited March 25, 20197 yr by d3nominat0r

7 minutes ago, d3nominat0r said:

great thread.

Team effort. Thanks. 👍

I focused on lead acids first, Pylontech is much easier, cheaper and cleaner. If I was to buy, I would look at Pylontechs.

See the ESS video and info here: https://www.victronenergy.com/live/ess:design-installation-manual

In a nutshell it manages the system for you using the power available, always preferring solar adding Eskom / batts as needed for the loads by not feeding back to the grid unless told to. It is the brains of the system basically, optimising the ROI, with free software updates as and when thye become available. 🙂 

See the Download section on how to set it up: https://powerforum.co.za/files/file/31-setting-up-victrons-ess/

@The Terrible Triplett

Thanks for the feedback. Got 150k to spend and trying to figure out what is the best option to go for. My thinking at this stage based on the info on this thread is as follows:

1. Run as much as possible directly off solar during the day 
2. Split my DB board into essential (to be run off battery backup during load-shedding) and non-essential loads.
3. In future be able to size battery backup to be larger to go off-grid entirely. (need to future proof for this). Currently thinking of getting a FreedomWon Home4/5 unit initially but seems the Pylontechs might be better for expansion.
4. I am thinking of a 5KVA Multiplus Inverter with matching panels (12 x 350W Panels, 6 strings of 2 panels) with a Victron 250/100 MPPT.

Your thoughts?

Just now, d3nominat0r said:

1. I am thinking of a 5KVA Multiplus Inverter with matching panels (12 x 350W Panels, 6 strings of 2 panels) with a Victron 250/100 MPPT.

Your thoughts?

Me, I'm thinking 3kva is more than enough grid tied, with dedicated loads on separate DB - and because of regulations.

3 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Me, I'm thinking 3kva is more than enough grid tied, with dedicated loads on separate DB - and because of regulations.

Regulations meaning NRS certified and on the list? Do you think the 5KVA will not be certified anytime soon?

5 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Me, I'm thinking 3kva is more than enough grid tied, with dedicated loads on separate DB - and because of regulations.

Does this apply to the batteries as well, or can I still do 2 x Pylon US3000B 3.5kWh?

I stay in Ekurhuleni and they have not yet regulated this yet as far as I know but will probably follow suite. If you had 150k to spend today, how would you spend it on Solar/Batteries if you had a standard Eskom feed and nothing else but looking at:

1. Covering a 3 hour Load-shedding window
2. Save on electricity cost to payback the cost

P.S. I have a generator, so I can always run it when the batteries get low and charge them if needed. This will allow me to store the unused generated power, and allow the generator to rest

1 minute ago, d3nominat0r said:

If you had 150k to spend today, how would you spend it on Solar/Batteries if you had a standard Eskom feed and nothing else but looking at:

I would start off with a MPPT 150/100 grid tied setup - to have lots of maneuvering space ito more panels:
Victron MultiPlus II Inverter 48/3000 with MK3-USB to do firmware updates
Victron BlueSolar MPPT regulator max 150/100 with VE.Direct to USB cable for MPPT (1.8m)
VenusGX 
Carlo Gavazzi with RS485 to USB - 5m - you can extend it with a UTP cable.

With Pylontech batteries.
And say a 2,8kw array max.

Then with data over time I'll decide if I need more batts and / or panels.

And keep about R60k in the bank. 🙂 

7 minutes ago, PaBz0r said:

Do you think the 5KVA will not be certified anytime soon?

It's just a matter of time, it almost certainly will be certified BUT... the more direct issue is that you need an 80A feed from the grid to install a 5KVA (grid-tied capacity is is less than the allowed 4.6kva). Many houses only have a 60A feed and can't install a 5KVA.

10 minutes ago, PaBz0r said:

Regulations meaning NRS certified and on the list? Do you think the 5KVA will not be certified anytime soon?

The limit you on the main breaker in the DB board to what size inverter, from here: CoCT Regulalations

4 minutes ago, plonkster said:

It's just a matter of time, it almost certainly will be certified BUT... the more direct issue is that you need an 80A feed from the grid to install a 5KVA (grid-tied capacity is is less than the allowed 4.6kva). Many houses only have a 60A feed and can't install a 5KVA.

I have a 3-phase installation at 60A per phase, albeit currently essential loads are on one phase and non-essential loads on the others. Does this have any impact on the above point? 

Edit: Based on TTT post, am I allowed 10KVA generation capability?

Edited March 25, 20197 yr by d3nominat0r
Snap, TTT posted at the same time.

Just now, plonkster said:

It's just a matter of time, it almost certainly will be certified BUT... the more direct issue is that you need an 80A feed from the grid to install a 5KVA (grid-tied capacity is is less than the allowed 4.6kva). Many houses only have a 60A feed and can't install a 5KVA.

This is where it gets more confusing for the newbies, the Goodwe ES 5048 is 4.6kw and on the list, the 5KVA multi would result in 4kw, but we might have an issue? 

8 minutes ago, d3nominat0r said:

I have a 3-phase installation at 60A per phase, albeit currently essential loads are on one phase and non-essential loads on the others. Does this have any impact on the above point?

Well, how many inverters were you thinking of buying? 🙂

For a full three phase backup solution you will need three inverters, and they'd have to be less than 10.4KVA combined which again leaves you with 3KVA per phase.

6 minutes ago, PaBz0r said:

This is where it gets more confusing for the newbies, the Goodwe ES 5048 is 4.6kw and on the list, the 5KVA multi would result in 4kw, but we might have an issue? 

I believe the 4.6kva of the goodwe is also a peak rating and when grid-tied it does less. The same is true of Victron kit, when running grid-tied it limits to about 80% nominal. It's all in the specifications.

13 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

I would start off with a MPPT 150/100 grid tied setup - to have lots of maneuvering space ito more panels:
Victron MultiPlus II Inverter 48/3000 with MK3-USB to do firmware updates
Victron BlueSolar MPPT regulator max 150/100 with VE.Direct to USB cable for MPPT (1.8m)
VenusGX 
Carlo Gavazzi with RS485 to USB - 5m - you can extend it with a UTP cable.

With Pylontech batteries.
And say a 2,8kw array max.

Then with data over time I'll decide if I need more batts and / or panels.

And keep about R60k in the bank. 🙂 

Thanks, will this require me to replace the inverter or add an additional one if I decide to add more panels and/or batteries?

5 minutes ago, plonkster said:

I believe the 4.6kva of the goodwe is also a peak rating and when grid-tied it does less. The same is true of Victron kit, when running grid-tied it limits to about 80% nominal. It's all in the specifications.

The ES series http://en.goodwe.com/Products/index_spec/id/22.html , so 4600VA in Normal and Backup mode.

Eish. 😕

Edited March 25, 20197 yr by PaBz0r

3 minutes ago, plonkster said:

Well, how many inverters were you thinking of buying? 🙂

For a full three phase backup solution you will need three inverters, and they'd have to be less than 10.4KVA combined which again leaves you with 3KVA per phase.

Hmm, not immediately, but I seem that it gives me an option at least to double or triple up if needed. Just need to split my loads accordingly in future if needed unless the regulations change.

1 minute ago, d3nominat0r said:

Thanks, will this require me to replace the inverter or add an additional one if I decide to add more panels and/or batteries?

Nope, you just add another inverter, same model, in parallel.
Add as many panels as the MPPT can handle.
Add as many batteries as the MPPT can charge.

Therein the 150/100 - being able to charge batts at 100amps witn 5800W array potential.

You can buy up, the 250/100 - if you need to run 250v strings.
And keep in mind the Smartsolar control.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-SmartSolar-charge-controller-MPPT-150-45-up-to-150-100-EN.pdf

Thanks, this makes sense. What would good practise be to include my existing generator? Do I keep the generator/Eskom switch and still use the Inverter to smooth the generation or is there a better way to do this?

1 hour ago, d3nominat0r said:

Thanks, this makes sense. What would good practise be to include my existing generator? Do I keep the generator/Eskom switch and still use the Inverter to smooth the generation or is there a better way to do this?

Keep the generator because batteries are more expensive than Eskom and in a crux a generator, already bought, is cheaper than more batteries.

Re, the 2nd half of the question, I'm not sure. Anyone else?

2 hours ago, d3nominat0r said:

still use the Inverter to smooth the generation

There's usually little point in that, with one exception. That exception is when the generator is too small to handle all the loads. Then you can set the inverter to do PowerAssist and provide the difference. But this also means you need to use a good generator that's not all over the place re voltage and frequency.

Otherwise, the most cost effective thing to do is to run your loads from the generator and to use all surplus to recharge the batteries. Typically one would at least complete the Bulk phase of charging on the generator, and then finish with solar (if possible).

1 hour ago, plonkster said:

There's usually little point in that, with one exception. That exception is when the generator is too small to handle all the loads. Then you can set the inverter to do PowerAssist and provide the difference. But this also means you need to use a good generator that's not all over the place re voltage and frequency.

Otherwise, the most cost effective thing to do is to run your loads from the generator and to use all surplus to recharge the batteries. Typically one would at least complete the Bulk phase of charging on the generator, and then finish with solar (if possible).

Yes you are right - it has to be a pretty good generator if you want to run power assist.

I have a 55KW three phase Deutz diesel - pretty much state of the art but with a three phase ESS it just does not work - I have to tweak the generator carefully so it remains on frequency while the three Victrons combined with loads fight the generator - just hopeless. Without the ESS it however works great.

If you have a battery system having a generator makes sense - it is useful during longer periods of bad weather (or say for a few days of grid meltdown, should that happen). It allows you to run your loads on the generator while at the same time giving your batteries a boost - combined it means you can aim to run your generator at its designed maximum efficiency load so you get the most bang for the fuel spend. 

Does the Multiplus II come with the current sensor or do you just go the Carlo Gavazzi route? Is there any downside with not going with the Carlo Gavazzi?    

With the Multies you only use external current sensors if you have a good reason to do so - perhaps to take currents from a PV grid tie inverter into consideration.

Assuming you have a CCGX - on its own it can show you AC in/out power, load power, DC battery power, PV charger power. In short - all you need to know...

13 minutes ago, PaBz0r said:

Does the Multiplus II come with the current sensor or do you just go the Carlo Gavazzi route? Is there any downside with not going with the Carlo Gavazzi?    

Just go the Carlo Route. Nice data if you have a VenusGX or CCGX too.

If you don't use AC_out2, then you must have a Carlo.
If everything goes via the Inverter, you don't need a Carlo - still nice to have. 🙂