Hi there

I know there are a myriad of technical details and specs that ultimately has to be taken into account but I would really appreciate any feedback on whether my departure point is at least ok or not . I am looking at a Microcare Inverter , Freedom Won battery and Renewsys panels . The area in question is totally off the grid and as indicated I would like to know whether the Brands in question are the correct avenues to pursue or whether I should rather be starting this solar power journey from a different Brand departure point .

Budget available is not much - R 100 000 - R 125 000 .

Thanks

 

 

Hi Shakama,

while I personally use other brands, the Freedom Won LFP battey is a good choice. Since a battery is normally the most expensive part of the system, it makes sense to choose a reliable vendor. Speaking of panels, it's not as critical, really. Basically, choose whatever you want, but be sure that type and number of panels will match your charger/inverter. I would say that almost any solar modules around 300Wp Polycrystaline will be okay.

Microcare is the SA specific brand. While not as wide-spread as Victron Energy, it should be a really good choice for you (assuming you live in SA). The good service is the key, so just check whether you have a Microcare repair center somewhere near you.

 

I'm not sure whether R 125 000 will be enough for going fully off-grid. It really depends on:
1) What's you power-needs.
2) Whether you have a sunny weather all-year-round in your location.

Geyser, lighs, computer, water-pump - all this can be fed with the above budget. But AirCondition/Heating not really, I would say.

On 2019/03/01 at 7:53 PM, Shakama said:

... Microcare Inverter ...
... Budget available is not much - R 100 000 - R 125 000 ...

Me, if I invested money into a solar system, I will make very sure that whatever I install, meets the local and potential future regulations ito grid tying.

TTT, you are exactly right!

If there is even a slightest possibility that this off-grid system will be tied to a grid somewhere in the future, it definitelly makes a sense to go for the components "certified" by the local authorities.

Edited March 3, 20197 yr by Youda

Hi Shakama

(Please bear in mind that these are my opinions/thoughts - Not everyone one forum - we all have our own ideas, but are generally on similar pages)

You seem to have a decent sized budget for a small system, but we have no idea of what your load is to be able to advise on mid-level products or proper high-end products. This is very important in any Solar company or even us attempting to advise. eg: if you have a 1Kw/hr load then your budget can easily cope, a 5Kw/hr load then you are barely going to survive.

Low-level products can also do the job and require different maintenance/support/costs per year, blah blah.

I think there is limited doubt on this forum that the correct Victron installation is almost always the best, but we all have to use what is available in our budgets. I personally don't have the kind of money or usage that justifies the expense.

Panels: Renewsys are good, sometimes the locally produced ArtSolar products (from Pinetown, KZN) are just as sufficient for sometimes a portion of the money.

Batteries: Depends on your maintenance and budget - Trojans are the best high performance and low budget Lead/Acid, but they need maintenance. Many of the forum users are using the new Pylontech Lithium type which need far less maintenance and out-perform Lead/Acid - but at a cost premium. I understand the FreedomWon is similar to the PylonTech, but I don't know all the technical differences. As per my "Lessons Learned" blog posts on this forum - Batteries are almost the most important part of your installation, go cheap and nasty and you risk losing your home!

Inverter: This is very subjective on the forum, and depends entirely on load and available funds. As mentioned above, I think MOST here would agree that a correctly installed Victron system for off-grid is the pinnacle... But that isn't always practical when it comes to money/setup/control/blah,blah... I can only suggest that you:

1. Don't get an inverter that you will always run at near max, or constantly trip (ie: don't use a 3Kw inverter when your loads reach >3Kw more that 1 per week - even if it says it can cope!)
2. An Inverter is actually the simplist part of your install to change. It might be pricey in your mind, but if you have the right batteries and panels, then you can actually start smaller. A decent inverter can deal with a lot of panels/power, even if it can't use it all, and as long as you keep your batteries at the right level then it doesn't really matter if you have too many batteries (my opinion).

Regulations: (My personal opinion begins with a "F" word)... If there is ANY chance that you may need to connect this to the grid, even as an off-line/UPS type system, then familiarise yourself with the rules and products allowed. If you are always going to stay completely off-grid, then only concern yourself with standard electrical codes for normal installation - SANS10142 & SANS10142 Part 1 (or any subsequent amendments that I might not be aware of). Most of these are logical, and you probably already comply.

For example: I run 4+ seperate solar installs at home, 1 for the basic house 220V AC, 1 for house 12V systems, 1 for Electric Fence and Gate, 1 for my permanent powered 4x4... Also have 1 for seperate charging system and temp inverter for emergencies. They all have different use cases - I use basic inverters and batteries for most (off the shelf Ellies & 2 chinese cheapie inverters), but for my permanent stuff, like the house, I have used decent products as best I can - I don't want it to fail and be fixed at the least opportune moments.

I don't think anyone's install is perfect, we just try get closer and closer and closer each time. Any installer that will make a promise that your install will 100% solve your problem is lying, and that even goes for the installers here on this forum - They would never make that promise.

So, this doesn't actually answer your question completely, but if you give us a bit more details (especially about your load requirement), then we can possibly advise a little better.

Good luck and feel free to ask, that is what this forum is about.

Hi,

It’s a very interesting and valuable exercise to make sure you really know where your electricity is being used.

You need to understand which equipment uses the most energy in a month - here’s where your PV can save you money, especially if the usage is in the day.

And you need to know which equipment uses the most power and when.  His current draw makes your inverter expensive.

You will find that innocuous looking things that run all the time use a lot of your killowatt hours.  

‘There is also a class of usage where you can control where its used - run the dishwasher in the day and not the evening.  Things like a pool pump you can even turn off automatically if you need the power for something else.

Meters are available that you can use to monitor, I installed something called Openenergymontor that gives me a ton of insight:

 

18 hours ago, Youda said:

check whether you have a Microcare repair center somewhere near you

You courier it to Port Elizabeth if it needs repair 🙂

My mine gripe with Microcare is that in terms of cost vs quality they don't have enough of an edge over something like Victron... and I felt this way even when I actually had a Microcare MPPT... it was a little cheaper than the Victron unit, and eventually as prices came down on the European end and actually went up on this end... there was eventually no reason to buy them other than feeling some great sense of patriotism.

Thanks all for your replies and inputs.

The solar system will be used for a weekend/holiday home at an Eco estate based in the Waterberg,  Limpopo. We have gas geysers and a gas stove. No air conditioner or pool pump, just Bosch A++  fridge freezer combo, lights. 5 kw will be adequate at this stage.

Any advice regarding Axpert inverters compared to Microcare inverters. 

We have decided to rather go for the Lithium batteries and if need be we can add another lithium battery.

It seems the Canadian panels feature frequently in conversations.  Any advice on them or are  there any other panels. We are thinking of getting 12 panels @ 250kw

Any inputs on the above will be appreciated

Thanks 

Shakama,

IMHO, 5kW Axpert is a good choice for an off-grid installation. This box is used all over the world and there's a lot of Axpert users on this forum too. So if you are going to build your system by yourself, you will have a rich source of information available to you.

Personally, I would pick one of these models:

• Axpert MKS 48V 5000W - MPPT Voc 145V / 3000Wp
• Axpert King 48V 5000W - MPPT Voc 145V / 4000Wp
• Axpert VMII 48V 5000W - MPPT Voc 500V / 4000Wp

For example, if you pick an Axpert model with 145V max Voc and CanadianSolar CS6P-250P,  then you can connect 3 such panels into a series (3 x 37.2V = 111.6V)
Next, you will combine four of these series in parallel for a total PV power 4 x 3 x 250Wp = 3000Wp.
Be careful and never connect more panels into a series than is a maximum allowed Voc for an inverter. To be precise, you need to keep a small reserve because the cold panels have a bit higher voltage than what is noted in the specsheet.

 

 

On 2019/03/02 at 11:09 PM, Youda said:

Hi Shakama,

while I personally use other brands, the Freedom Won LFP battey is a good choice.

Is this battery type also referred to as: Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4)??

On 2019/11/09 at 8:28 PM, Richard Mackay said:

Is this battery type also referred to as: Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4)??

@Richard MackayYes, the Freedom WON batteries use LiFePO4 cells.

Just checking..

I once read a post which referred to Lithium Iron!  I thought they meant Lithium ion (Li-ion)..No apparently they meant this one..

 

 

3 hours ago, Richard Mackay said:

I once read a post which referred to Lithium Iron!  I thought they meant Lithium ion (Li-ion)..No apparently they meant this one..

Technically they are all Lithium Ion... but there are many chemistries in the family.

LiFePO4, or LFP for short = Lithium Iron Phosphate (mostly used in stationary applications, and sometimes in vehicles).

NMC = Nickel Manganese Cobalt (used in vehicles, sometimes in stationary applications)

NCA = Nickel Cobalt Aluminium. Higher energy density than LFP but lower than NMC.

LiPo = Lithium Polymer, used in toys and electronic cancer sticks.

.... and there are a few others as well.

The differences are energy density and safety. NMC has a high energy density but also a higher fire risk, and has to be properly cooled (which is why a Tesla has coolant lines running through the battery). If you don't cool them properly they don't last long (eg first generation Nissan Leaf).

LFP is popular for solar use because energy density is less of a concern, and they are really safe. They don't burn like the others do.

Edit: Cobalt is an important part of the discussion. We have lots of Lithium on planet Earth. We don't have as much Cobalt. What Cobalt we have is often a byproduct of copper mining. And copper mining is a really toxic business, or so I am told. So where possible, it is good to use a battery that doesn't need Cobalt.

Edited November 11, 20196 yr by plonkster

On 2019/11/11 at 11:43 AM, plonkster said:

eg first generation Nissan Leaf

The worst part is, the second generation Leaf still doesn't have active battery cooling...only a few chemistry changes to help combat thermal runaway.