I am still trying to get my head around everything that needs to be done, but one thing that is not exactly clear to me is how to apply for SSEG / grid tied inside a sectional title complex.

The complex has three bulk meters coming from the City of Cape Town, and then every unit has its own electricity meter.

I am keen to start the process of submitting an application for SSEG - but there is this ominous section in the "REQUIREMENTS FOR SMALL SCALE EMBEDDED
GENERATION" (link) document.  In section 1.2 of Section A (residential):  "SSEG installations in group developments or for blocks of flats need to meet unique
requirements. Proposals must be discussed with DSD before applications are submitted."

Does anybody know what these unique requirements are?  Can they be any more onerous than the already difficult process?

I get the feeling I am going to have to contact the mystical "DSD" to find out what the unique requirements are.

Fortunately I don't want to feed back - but I do want to try and run Victron ESS to maximize the investment I will be making in panels.  Obviously, given that it all becomes legal and understandable from the City of Cape Town 🙄

Will be interesting what hurdles you bang into.

A friend of mine has submitted an application similar to yours with a Multiplus II about 4 weeks ago. He lives in a large estate with a similar arrangement to yours but it is not sectional title. He has not done anything special with his application but so far there is no response from COCT.

Yeah, my intent is -

• Get started with a Victron Multiplus II 3kva and batteries - just as a big UPS.  Figure out how to legally use the Multiplus to charge the batteries from the grid 🙄 
• Add some panels soon - don't want to be stranded if say a substation dies because of load shedding.  Apply for SSEG / grid tied first, if that is too onerous go for off-grid - but I don't want to do this really since then I need to be 100 % dependent on batteries during the night and have to cater for poor PV performance etc.

The only thing that will be different in my application is that I will have to use the complex's meter numbers etc. for my application - and that is a bit odd.  Not sure if I don't intend to feed back if that will change the application slightly.

I got the following response from the City of Cape Town;  I have not yet responded, nor do I understand the impact of this:
Your setup qualifies for group SSEG, as you are bulk supplied. You need to apply via the usual SSEG process, in the name of the body corporate. Any subsequent applications would be treated as an upgrade on the initial application. As your supply is more than 100A you would need to install a bidirectional AMI meter. The City will provide and install the meter at your cost.

The setup in our complex is this:  there are three bulk meters delivering electricity from the City of Cape Town, and each unit has its own internal meter - read by the body corporate.  I specifically said I do not want to feed back into the grid, so I do not understand the requirement for the bidirectional meter?  Also - we have three meters...  which one will be replaced?

8 minutes ago, admiral said:

I specifically said I do not want to feed back into the grid, so I do not understand the requirement for the bidirectional meter?  Also - we have three meters...  which one will be replaced?

Maybe they saw the BC as one, and not each one individually. Maybe call them.

I will call them tomorrow - the bit that is interesting to me is the "As your supply is more than 100A you would need to install a bidirectional AMI meter".  Not sure what that means?

Also, one unit out of 49 units installing solar power generation can certainly not make *everyone* else go onto a different electricity tariff.  That is just daft.  I fear I may have fallen into a technical crack here.

Edited May 13, 20197 yr by admiral

Just now, admiral said:

"As your supply is more than 100A you would need to install a bidirectional AMI meter".

There my assumption they saw the 3 as one unit, not each one individually - unless you have a 100amp breaker. 🙂 

To speculate more;  perhaps it has to do with section 2.4 "Tariffs" from this document:  http://resource.capetown.gov.za/documentcentre/Documents/Procedures, guidelines and regulations/Requiremenst for Samll-Scale Embedded Generation.pdf

I quote:

"Tariffs are determined annually by the City and are subject to approval by NERSA. SSEG
applicants should check the City’s website for the latest tariffs - the applicable tariff is the
commercial and industrial small-scale embedded generation tariff and can be found on the
City’s website.
Customers on tariffs which have a daily service charge will see no difference to the tariff
other than the addition of a generation credit component which is simply a rate/kWh
exported.
Note that commercial customers with a prepayment meter on the SPU 2 tariff will be
changed to SPU 1 tariff and will require a bi-directional AMI credit meter unless their supply
connection does not exceed 100A and they install reverse power flow blocking protection."

I see on the complex electricity account there is mention of us being on "Commercial (Small Power User High)", although this is clearly a residential development.

@The Bulldog - does the above make any sense to you?

Yes.

It gets complicated as COCT is not billing you via your own meter. Effectively your complex/estate should apply as they are the entity COCT deals with.

Not an ideal situation given that now you would have to deal with the inevitable politics every body corporate has to deal with.

I think your best bet would to reconsider and rather plan for and install an off-grid system. That way nothing changes as far as COCT is concerned and if you design your solar system well it can be quite effective off grid.

 

1 minute ago, The Bulldog said:

Yes.

It gets complicated as COCT is not billing you via your own meter. Effectively your complex/estate should apply as they are the entity COCT deals with.

Not an ideal situation given that now you would have to deal with the inevitable politics every body corporate has to deal with.

I think your best bet would to reconsider and rather plan for and install an off-grid system. That way nothing changes as far as COCT is concerned and if you design your solar system well it can be quite effective off grid.

 

At least I am the chairperson of the trustees so the politics is not that big an issue.  Off-grid is an option - but I was not planning on having that many batteries as the system is intended as a house UPS, with *some* power saving with a few panels (and also some security from longer term outages).

I just need to figure out why they want to have a new meter installed - not planning to feed electricity back into the grid at all.

The reason why they want you to go for an AMI meter is the bulk connection to your complex. I think there is little chance of avoiding that. Nothing to do with feeding in. 

I'm getting one of those as well - my house is on a 150 amp three phase feed for some obscure reason. But I will be feeding in as much as I can.

 

We have three meters...  plus they'll want to change our electricity tariff too.  Makes no sense if one owner wants to use solar power to affect 48 other units.

They'll have to come up with better policies for sectional title / complexes than this.

1 hour ago, admiral said:

They'll have to come up with better policies for sectional title / complexes than this.

It is all new to them ... and the options out there are limitless between all the complexes / sectional titles, I would imagine. 🙂 

Yeah - I will see if I can get to discuss this with someone in person, rather.

I see this bidirectional AMI meter is insanely expensive - something like R15000.  We have three bulk meters - do we change all three for one unit out of forty nine wanting to use a grid tied PV system without feedback?  That makes zero sense.

I can understand this if you're a commercial customer, with a bulk meter, wanting to install a megawatt of PV.  But not for what we want to do.  <sigh> 

7 hours ago, admiral said:

They'll have to come up with better policies for sectional title / complexes than this

@Rautenk will set up (after his return from overseas) a meeting with the CoCT to discuss SSEG registration problems. I am compiling a list of possible agenda points for him. I will include your issue.

Response from CoCT SSEG department via email - they are remarkably responsive!

The AMI meter requirement comes from the fact that you are on a commercial tariff, therefore section B, clause 2.3 of the Requirements document applies.

We don't want to feed back, and installations in a sectional title complex are not any different from any other residential installation.  This will punish home owners in any kind of group development for wanting to become more green, and to become less dependent on Eskom.

By the way, here is section 2.3 of the requirements document:

Quote

Commercial and industrial customers wanting to connect SSEG to the grid and to be
compensated for reverse power flow will require a bi-directional AMI credit meter. This
includes customers currently using prepayment meters. The City will provide and install the
necessary meters at the customer’s cost.

Customers wanting to connect SSEG to the grid but not be compensated for reverse power flow will be required to install reverse power flow blocking protection to prevent reverse power flow onto the electricity grid. The consumers may then, subject to the ruling policies for tariffs and metering, keep their existing prepaid meter and remain on the SPU 2 electricity consumption tariff. Prepayment meters are never allowed to run backwards.

Customers (whether with single or three phase supplies) wishing to participate in the SSEG tariff might be required to adapt their electrical installations in such a way that metering will be
accommodated in a meter kiosk in the road reserve. This does not apply where an
acceptable meter box or meter room already exists on the street-front property boundary or
where access to the current metering accommodation is considered adequate. If no kiosk
exists or there is no room for the meter in an existing kiosk, a meter kiosk will be installed in the road reserve at the City's cost. Only in cases where there are extremely narrow or no
footways, thereby precluding the installation of a meter kiosk, will customers be required to
provide metering accommodation to the City’s specifications on the street-front property
boundary. Such a meter box must face outwards and be locked with a standard EGD lock.
When a customer changes to the SSEG tariff and has an AMI (credit) meter installed, unused
Prepayment meter (PPM) units will be refunded fully or partially according to the ruling
policy.

Customers drawing less than 100 A with credit meters will be required to have their credit
meter replaced with a prepayment meter at the City’s cost. Customers drawing more than
100 A will be required to either reduce their capacity below 100 A, or alternatively have a bidirectional AMI meter supplied and installed by the City at the customer’s cost and be
placed on the SPU 1 tariff. In other words, conventional credit and prepayment meters are
never allowed to “run backwards”.

 

On 2019/05/14 at 5:37 PM, Fuenkli said:

I am compiling a list of possible agenda points for him. I will include your issue.

Dear all,

 

I am looking to set up the meeting with Ryno and CoCT next week Tuesday.

Just a heads up.

 

Cheers,

 

Hi Guys,

I'm in the same boat in our estate in CPT and find it strange that residents in estates are getting "punished" for trying to be less reliant on Eskom. Any feedback or more info that can be shared since the last post?

@admiral @Rautenk

They are not budging on the AMI meter requirement, although they have recently decided to pay for the meter change themselves.

I need to follow this to. Same story for me but I'm planning to go 90% off grid. 

I will be sending in my forms this week, will let feed back.

2 hours ago, admiral said:

I will be sending in my forms this week, will let feed back.

Thx, im still totally confused by this.

12 hours ago, admiral said:

they have recently decided to pay for the meter change themselves

excellent news! All GTI's should have bi directional meters. Hopefully the CoCT will implement them either for free or at a reasonable cost to the consumer 🙂.

Edited October 14, 20196 yr by Fuenkli