PaBz0r Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Hi All, My friend also recently had a Victron Install done, he has a Intech Actom Pre-Paid Meter. His average usage over the last year before the installation was around 22kw a day. He loaded some credits on over the weekend and it seems to be happily continuing to consume that amount per day, although he is basically off-grid with the install he had done. Anybody have experience with meters picking up the solar usage? Grid-Feed in is set to No and Grid setpoint set to 40w. I doubt the short periods of feed-in can amount to the usage the meter is picking up, is it possible that it is sensing the usage somehow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustav du Plessis Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Probably a bad installation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Well, one could likely test the hypothesis using the data from VRM. VRM calculates consumption values, and though in my experience these can be a few percent off what the prepaid meter reads, it should be close enough to see a correlation (or not). Then you can check if his consumption has really remained at 22kwh per day, and what the mix of PV/grid is. The data download feature on VRM is invaluable if you need to do more analysis using a spreadsheet, but just the charts alone ought to get you far in this process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobster. Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Where abouts in the world are you? I'm in JHB, also with prepaid. Sounds like your friend has a hybrid system that retains a connection to the municipality but will use solar and/or battery when possible. With my system it was necessary to charge the batteries up to 100% before we could run in hybrid mode, so maybe that's the problem - maybe the inverter has been left in a mode where it will keep the batteries 100% charged at all time in case of power outage. In JHB I see my prepaid credits diminish, but very slowly now. What does happen is that when my inverter sends power back to the grid, I don't get an increase in prepaid credits for that. The discrepancy averages about 1/4 kw/h a day, so I am not too upset about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaBz0r Posted July 9, 2019 Author Share Posted July 9, 2019 They are checking the install as we speak, will take it from there. He had a lot of wiring issues, old house and they had to redo a few things as the guys were daisy chaining to the closest point where they could previously and it resulted in tripping on the inverter. These COCs are not worth much when the bank requests them as part of the sale. Guys just sign off and move on. He is using ESS and cycling the batteries at night. If they can't figure it out, will check the data tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaBz0r Posted July 9, 2019 Author Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Bobster said: Where abouts in the world are you? I'm in JHB, also with prepaid. Pretoria, I think a very old prepaid meter as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaBz0r Posted July 9, 2019 Author Share Posted July 9, 2019 3 hours ago, plonkster said: Well, one could likely test the hypothesis using the data from VRM. VRM calculates consumption values, and though in my experience these can be a few percent off what the prepaid meter reads, it should be close enough to see a correlation (or not). Then you can check if his consumption has really remained at 22kwh per day, and what the mix of PV/grid is. The data download feature on VRM is invaluable if you need to do more analysis using a spreadsheet, but just the charts alone ought to get you far in this process. I wanted to download my data today as I got my first bill, can you download the data from the dashboard as well? I don't see the download option there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youda Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 5 hours ago, PaBz0r said: Hi All, My friend also recently had a Victron Install done, he has a Intech Actom Pre-Paid Meter. His average usage over the last year before the installation was around 22kw a day. He loaded some credits on over the weekend and it seems to be happily continuing to consume that amount per day, although he is basically off-grid with the install he had done. Anybody have experience with meters picking up the solar usage? Grid-Feed in is set to No and Grid setpoint set to 40w. I doubt the short periods of feed-in can amount to the usage the meter is picking up, is it possible that it is sensing the usage somehow? So the guy had a consumption of 22kWh per day in the past and now, after solar has been installed, he's having roughly the same daily consumption? Still 22kWh? That number is so huge that it can't be related to the meter itself. Prepaid meter or not, there must be something wrong with the install: It's either doing a massive feed-in (which is being accounted as consumption by his meter) or the installed solar equipment is not working at all. For example, I saw the installation in the past where all the loads were connected before the inverter, so the loads were practically running from the grid while the inverter was just charging the batteries and not producing any AC. As a troubleshooting, I would turn off the mains and check whether the loads are really running from the solar...especialy geyser, washer dryer etc., as these consume the most. PaBz0r 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 hour ago, PaBz0r said: I wanted to download my data today as I got my first bill, can you download the data from the dashboard as well? I don't see the download option there On the Advanced page, select the date range you want (the charts will update), then top right there is a cloud icon, and if you click that, you get the option to download the data for the same time span. PaBz0r 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaBz0r Posted July 9, 2019 Author Share Posted July 9, 2019 31 minutes ago, plonkster said: On the Advanced page, select the date range you want (the charts will update), then top right there is a cloud icon, and if you click that, you get the option to download the data for the same time span. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaBz0r Posted July 9, 2019 Author Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Youda said: So the guy had a consumption of 22kWh per day in the past and now, after solar has been installed, he's having roughly the same daily consumption? Still 22kWh? That number is so huge that it can't be related to the meter itself. Prepaid meter or not, there must be something wrong with the install: It's either doing a massive feed-in (which is being accounted as consumption by his meter) or the installed solar equipment is not working at all. For example, I saw the installation in the past where all the loads were connected before the inverter, so the loads were practically running from the grid while the inverter was just charging the batteries and not producing any AC. As a troubleshooting, I would turn off the mains and check whether the loads are really running from the solar...especialy geyser, washer dryer etc., as these consume the most. It seems his figures were from his old house, he did not have figures for this house. I gave him an energy meter to check what is happening on his main db, as they left the oven and geyser on eskom. Nothing strange came out after checking, so will report back once he has some data. Youda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobster. Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 20 hours ago, PaBz0r said: They are checking the install as we speak, will take it from there. He had a lot of wiring issues, old house and they had to redo a few things as the guys were daisy chaining to the closest point where they could previously and it resulted in tripping on the inverter. These COCs are not worth much when the bank requests them as part of the sale. Guys just sign off and move on. There are indeed people who sign off on a house they haven't even set foot in. I had such a problem when I bought my current house. What you can do, if you have good grounds for believing something dodgy has gone on, is call the Electrical Contractor's Board and dob in the person who signed off. I did that. Three things happened 1) The ECB said "thank you very much, Sir" 2) Some sort of disciplinary action took place 3) Now no electrician wants to know about my COC or even give me a supplementary certificate because word got out that COCs from this guy are not worth the paper they're written on. I am arranging to get the whole house certified from scratch again (by somebody I know to be rigorous). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerrie Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 On 2019/07/09 at 9:42 AM, PaBz0r said: Anybody have experience with meters picking up the solar usage? I read this thread and think I might have had a similar issue with my pre-paid meter. I cannot confirm it and have to test it again to confirm. I have a prepaid meter (Landis Gyr keypad) in the house and normally unplug it from the wall plug. I only plug it in when checking balance or loading credits. I think it might be going into tamper mode when I’m running off-grid and do not unplug it. The other day someone in my house plugged the keypad in, when we were running off-grid and when I realised it was pluged in it looked like the credits was less than supposed to be. I than read somewhere in the prepaid manual about times when it will go into tamper mode. Anyone know anything about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoic Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 On 2019/07/09 at 4:47 PM, plonkster said: then top right there is a cloud icon finally!!! i've been looking for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaBz0r Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Gerrie said: I read this thread and think I might have had a similar issue with my pre-paid meter. I cannot confirm it and have to test it again to confirm. I have a prepaid meter (Landis Gyr keypad) in the house and normally unplug it from the wall plug. I only plug it in when checking balance or loading credits. I think it might be going into tamper mode when I’m running off-grid and do not unplug it. The other day someone in my house plugged the keypad in, when we were running off-grid and when I realised it was pluged in it looked like the credits was less than supposed to be. I than read somewhere in the prepaid manual about times when it will go into tamper mode. Anyone know anything about this? From my understanding the unit in the house is only suppose to be the user interface and not related to measuring anything. I have heard people plugging it in at the neighbors when the battery goes flat and they have already run out of credits to load new tokens. So not sure where the tampering comes from, but could also be something to look at perhaps due to feedback. My friend still hasn't sorted out his ghost loads.. I think there is still some wiring issues which he hasn't had time to address yet. A constant load of 200w from somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, PaBz0r said: A constant load of 200w from somewhere. I once remove fluorescent tubes from a square fitting. 4 tubes where housed in it. Replaced it with one 11w LED unit. For months I was looking for why I am not saving anything. Turned out that I had to rewire the fitting because I must remove the 4 transformers that was left behind. Fitting that green thingy works, where the manual said "no rewiring required". Ja right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerrie Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Pietpower said: Still need to find out if these meters will double or add to your energy use if you feed back to the grid or if they will just ignore the kwh fed back. I just finished s little test on my prepaid meter and found that the moment I go off grid, I get an error code 30 on the keypad. I googled it and see it is for lost comms. I also saw that the (1000impulse/KWH) LED on the keypad keeps flicking at the same rate as what it was, before changeover to solar happened. This is what had me worried before. I thought my credits might also count down, but luckily this did not happen, So it seems the keypad goes in to a hanging state flickering LED and displaying error code 30 when being powered on solar. I moved the keypad for testing to before my change over switch, to continuously be on grid, even when I switch to solar and all worked fine. I think these keypad and meters need the grid supply cable conductors, to communicate its signal, thats why you can plug in at a neighbor and it will work, but when you go off-grid your installation is isolated from grid and than there is no comms path for signal. Please correct me if It works differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaBz0r Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 16 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said: I once remove fluorescent tubes from a square fitting. 4 tubes where housed in it. Replaced it with one 11w LED unit. For months I was looking for why I am not saving anything. Turned out that I had to rewire the fitting because I must remove the 4 transformers that was left behind. Fitting that green thingy works, where the manual said "no rewiring required". Ja right. Haha, proper ghost load. I still think my friend has daisy chaining issues, some plug is being fed from somewhere they not expecting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 The with 22KW, It may happen that the installer installed the inverter output before the meter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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