Battery Questions

[Dave]

I have 24 x 2V 1660 amp hr first national battery cells.
I have been advised to strap them together as they are bulging.

What advice does the forum have?

[superdiy]

Hi Dave

Welcome to the forum. Sounds like an idea, but you'll maybe have to add structural support all around the outside as well to reverse the bulging of the outer cells.

PS. Wish I had 1660Ah cells.

[Guest]

I would replace them. It also tell me you are over charging them if they bulge.

[Guest]

Strap them together ... what!

Have First National visit you to see what is going on.

Friend of mine had same problem, some batts bulging. No overcharging. The pressure release holes where blocked.
Once that was sorted, the batts where fine again, for a while at least.

[Dave]

Hi

The cells are brand new,
I noticed the bulging when I unloaded off the truck.
The casing seems thin.

PS they cost 100K so no replacing for a long time.

 

Edited February 17, 2016 by Dave

[Mark]

I would contact the supplier... either they need a specific installation support framework or there is a problem.  Bulging is not good.  Alot of money to take a chance.

[Guest]

What Mark said.

[Dave]

Just been on the phone to FNB.

They should have supplied crates for the cells.

[Mark]

OK - So if they should have provided crates then I would ask for new batteries and crates.

I would not trust the old ones given they have bulged already.  Protect the investment.  If they believe the old cells are fine then they wont have an  issue swopping them out .

[Dave]

Hopefully my strapping and plywood solution will work.
See picture attached.

[SOLARWIND]

This makes it awkward to check the electrolyte levels, or isn't the casings transparent?

[Dave]

The casings are black.
There are caps on the top for the electrolyte.

And floats, which I have not yet fitted.

 

 

[Guest]

I would add a temperature probe in there and also drill some ventilation holes so there is no heat build up.

[Green Bum]

Guys I have not had luck in my search for a bank of used 48V back-up batteries for my 3kw Infini.

NEW OPTION: I have this Dixon 105Ah 12V deep cycle just over a year old parked and switched on 24/7 (DIY fan switched on manually)on my refurbished ups. on the load side I have the computer running office hours and a 1Amp 12V alarm system that does not like power failures. At the moment I am considering buying three more of these batteries for my 48V back-up.

1. I have never done any form of maintenance on this battery, what would you expect its health to be like ?
2. Will it be advisable to link it to the new batts or should I rather buy 4 new ones at R1500 each?
3. What life expectancy could one expect from a new set used (or not used  on the Infini as back-up)

your input will be appreciated!

[Chris Hobson]

1. Fair unless it is dry.
2. New - even if the battery has been well maintained and suffered no damage it has aged and its charge rate (and discharge rate) is likely to differ from newer batteries. My set of 4 batteries differed by a maximum of 0.04V when I purchased them. I was happy that they were roughly the same (assuming that they are charged to a standard charge when they left China).
3. Depend on the amount they are cycled. I know Dixon batteries are good but could not find a cycle graph for them.

 

[Guest]

jip, I know them well.

They are brilliant batteries!!! I have used them myself and sold a few of them already, before I move over to Trojans.

Not the Trojan range, but as close as you are going to get.

 

Dixon - DC 105 DT Data Sheet.pdf

[Chris Hobson]

8 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Not the Trojan range, but as close as you are going to get.

Then I am very happy with my AGM batteries. Their specs fit comfortably between Dixons' and Trojans'.

[Guest]

Chris, I spoke to a battery expert yesterday, they sell Trojans, AGM and manufacture their own to boot.

Allegedly the specs on the AGM's are over stated. they took this up with THEIR supplier. Depending on the make and model, some of the manufacturers are hiding the small print, for going down to the claimed cycles for 50% DOD, are not really the true numbers.

What are your experiences so far?

Ps. Post office is on strike. 

[Chris Hobson]

What are your experiences so far?

My batteries are rated at 800 cycles for 50%. We draw them down daily to between 20-30%.In late absorb at the moment, geyser on and mid-point deviation is 0.1% thanks to the battery balancers The use to go over 3% sometimes.. So I am looking after them but I have had them 10 months now too early to tell. Sept 2017 would be 800 cycles and they could last 4 years based on current usage (excluding the damage caused in the 2 months when I did not have battery balancers).

Addition: My old 36V system using Deltec batteries for battery lights lasted about 5 years so we'll see.

[Guest]

The chat we had did mention the 20% range to be the best. 

[Chris Hobson]

My thinking is that in 2-3 years time the landscape in the battery world may have changed considerably and I do not want to be locked in to a battery bank that is going to last another 5 years. If not too expensive I rather have the opportunity to get new technology. That having been said my current bank is destined for an installation for my employees and I will get one twice the current size.

 

[Guest]

Sound logic Chris.

 

But you struck a nerve. In 2005 we said, naaa, 5 years there will be better batt technology. Hold out.

in 2010 we said same ... 

2016 is nearly done. 

Point is, yes, I do believe something is coming, but the tech we would like, may not yet be there, or if it is and I missed it, it is not mass produceable yet.

Storing energy is a complicated, expensive thing. 

[Chris Hobson]

At 800 versus 1600 cycles compared to Trojan REs as long as they are not too expensive I can buy the same tech again. Yes I am paying more for my batteries but only marginally more expensive about R1500/yr. Coming from a diesel generation background R4 a day is something I am willing to accept. Under my current usage Trojans would last 7.5 years and what I have got would last about 4 years. I would hope that in the next 4 years something good is on the market. The nano wire tech that has been in the news lately should be ready by then and Endless Energy appears to have a financial backer. 

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Chris Hobson said:

battery balancers

Chris , where did you get your balancers? I also want to buy some

[Chris Hobson]

6 hours ago, Manie said:

Chris , where did you get your balancers? I also want to buy some

I ordered them on e-Bay. I think Edmund and Mark got their HA02 balancers on Alibaba. Ed may still have an extra HA02. If you buy a HA01 then you need 3 for a 12V X 4 48V system if you buy the HA 02 then you only need 1 unit for a 48V battery bank. For a 24V battery bank you only need one HA 01. Considerably cheaper than the only equivalent I know of (Victron battery balancer). 

HA02 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Battery-equalizer-balancer-for-48v-lead-acid-LiFePO4-balanced-charging-/252370442152?hash=item3ac27357a8 (good price I think)

HA01http://www.ebay.com/itm/Batterie-Balancer-Ladungsausgleicher-fur-24V-48V-Batteriesysteme-Solarakku-etc-/131473322599?hash=item1e9c6bb267 (expensive in my opinion - unfortunately my seller no longer stock the item)

The HA02 above is a good price since it is the equivalent of 3 X  HA01s or 3 Victron battery balancers. The only thing I do not like about the HA 02 is you have no indication whether it is active or passive at any one time. The HA01 has little LEDs that flash. A BMV 702 mid point reading is helpful though in the absence of LEDs. I think Mark's mid-point reading dropped from a max of over 3% to below 0.7% immediately. My batteries took about 2 months to come into balance. Having chatted to Dockarl from Australia I was expecting it to take a while with my big 260 Ah batteries but was not expecting from Sep to Nov. My batteries now never go over 0.7%.