18 minutes ago, Natures Heaven said:

If I go for the 12v, wont my 105 AH battery give me more juice for now as then I have 4 x 105 AH = 420 AH or am I dumb now

I missed this! Refreshing of the screen not fast enough.

For YES, you can use them for training.

What make and model are they, that we can check to not create unreasonable expectations.

Hi TTT

They are Deltecs 105AH, so if I go for the 12v 1000w system and put all 4 batteries together I will have 420 ah correct and maybe check if it will go through the night, can I add another 4 x 260 watts with my 2 x on the 12 v or not

Thanks

2 hours ago, Natures Heaven said:

Hi TTT

They are Deltecs 105AH, so if I go for the 12v 1000w system and put all 4 batteries together I will have 420 ah correct and maybe check if it will go through the night, can I add another 4 x 260 watts with my 2 x on the 12 v or not

Thanks

Yes you can. Get a 800w 12v Axpert. Has a charge controller built in.

BUT, always a but .... the Deltec 105AH batteries are leisure batteries I suspect. I would hazard a guess that at 50% DOD, that you will maybe MAYBE get about 260 cycles out of them. Good training batteries though, bar that you cannot add water and check each cells gravity, for longer lasting batteries.

To give you a comparison, if you where sold 4 x T105RE's, for not that much more, they could have given you 1600 cycles at 50% DOD, and like 4000 at 20% DOD.

Right that ship has sailed. 

Right, on your 4 x Deltec, this is what you can do:
Internet x 2 
VoIP
= 1029.6wh per day.
At 33% DOD eveyr day, 1 days backup, using 1 panel, it will recharge.

Having 2 panels has spare to charge faster, and adding more panels, you can power more.
 

Or, as long as you are aware, use your exiting inverter and the 4 batts and 2 panels, powering just this:
Internet x 2 
VoIP
= 1029.6wh per day.

Then go 48v. Full circle with a LOT of education done.

 

 

Thank you for that TTT

So what I will do is go buy 4 x more solars put solars in one string of 2 x strings and see how it goes, thank you to every bodies input I hope  I understand better it looks like a very complicated system.

I do understand that more PV is better as this will give power to the house during the day and charge the batteries to full capacity for night time, think next month I will go for the

6v Trojan batteries as I will then have 6 x 260 watt solars

i've found general rule of thumb calcs are about 4 to 5 times the constant load gives you PV Watts, then Battery watt hour is constant load x 30 for roughly 20-30% DOD.

in this case then what the guys are saying works out. 300W constant is 1200W worth of PV and 9000 watt hour storage, on 12V that is 750Ah. 

 these calcs work out nicely if your talking about a constant load.

3 hours ago, Natures Heaven said:

They are Deltecs 105AH, so if I go for the 12v 1000w system and put all 4 batteries together I will have 420 ah correct and maybe check if it will go through the night, can I add another 4 x 260 watts with my 2 x on the 12 v or not

just because you arrange them differently to 12v and then have more amp hour capacity doesn't give you more storage.its the same amount no matter how you arrange it. you will need double the batteries and have 1200W of PV to attempt off grid.

ps, Deltecs not bad batteries at all. not truly deep cycle and more Leisure caravan that sort of thing but good none the less.

30 minutes ago, Natures Heaven said:

Thank you for that TTT

So what I will do is go buy 4 x more solars put solars in one string of 2 x strings and see how it goes, thank you to every bodies input I hope  I understand better it looks like a very complicated system.

I do understand that more PV is better as this will give power to the house during the day and charge the batteries to full capacity for night time, think next month I will go for the

6v Trojan batteries as I will then have 6 x 260 watt solars

Yes this is the best option. Weasel explained why it wont help getting a different inverter while using the exsiting battery bank.
Use your existing inverter and just add on with panels and better batteries later

Thanks guys will give some feedback on changes and how it works

Cheers

 

PS: this group rocks

4 hours ago, Weasel said:

just because you arrange them differently to 12v and then have more amp hour capacity doesn't give you more storage.its the same amount no matter how you arrange it. you will need double the batteries and have 1200W of PV to attempt off grid.

Someone finally said it :-)

48V is always better than 24V, and 24V is always better than 12V. The only reason to go 24V is because you're as poor as a churchmouse and don't want to buy everything in multiples of 4, but you are also wise enough to know the power limitations on 12V, so you attempt a middle of the road compromise. Honestly, that is why I did it. Turns out a 24V system works fine below 3kva :-)

One upside to going 12V, is when you move on, you chuck that inverter in the car boot for emergencies. Or sell it on gumtree. Always a market for 12V stuff. Not so much for the rest. So as stop-gap stuff 12V can be justified.. Or if you literally just want to back up very light loads.

But I think this has been rehashed enough times. :-)

@viper_za and all PF advisers ( @Energy maybe a new classification, at members choice, Adviser?), it is all about education.

@Natures Heaven now has more info to work from and most probably will come back with more / other experiences than most of us could have anticipated, One thing to work with a budget, total different case to having the cash to do it all in one. Both have a lot to contribute.

Have served my purpose on this thread, instilled, I sincerely hope, some thought.

Nature, enjoy the experiences, do not feel bad if you make a mistake, I have blown a 12v inverter on a 24v bank, admitted it publicly. Was fixed by @edmundp and supplier was told about such by @plonkster. Collectively we may have made a difference in how future small Victron inverters are going to be manufactured for "Problems are opportunities, dressed in overalls".

Thank you TTT, Plonkster and Viper,  thanks to everybody not mentioned,  i had a look today at the Trojans - very expensive but looks like a good battery

Just installed second bank of batteries (105Ah), End of July 4 x more panels, for now the 2 x PV and genie has to charge it end of August - Batteries :), one quick one, what is the best setting on the Axpert 5kva, i have selected the following in settings

1. Uti first

2. Max charge current - 60A

3. AC input voltage - APL

4. Power saving mode - off

5. Battery type - Agn - (this is where i get stuck ) i have 8 x sealed batteries is that correct setting?

11. Maximum charging utility - 30A

12 Setting voltage back - 46V

13 Setting voltage point back - 54V

16 Chargeb sorce priority - SNU (solar and utility will charge battery ay same time)

26 Bulk charge voltage - 56.4

31 Solar power balance - Sbe

Thank you in advance

Hi

Very happy chappy, some feedback - installed second bank batteries running 3 days now as follows

Usually at 3 am the system died - now at 9:00 we are at 46V not bad - start genie for about 2 hours (9-11) batteries at 55v batteries during day at 50.8v-51v, evening - start genie at 19:00 - 21:00 batteries at 55v, last till 9:00 at 46V

So this week more PV's, so maybe no more genie

Thank you again for every body's input and info, looks like we on the right track

 

46 v  is quite low, that,s probably around 30% or less charge. That is will be seriously shortening your battery lifespan. Consider starting the generator earlier in the morning so the batteries don,t get so low.

I'm pretty sure he is talking with a load connected.
Natures maybe you can do an experiment and disconnect the loads and turn of the inverter in the morning and leave it for a few minutes and measure the battery bank volts just to confirm this

Hi

Yes that is with load, I will do it this morning and see what the real voltage is,

Thanks Viper and DeepBass, learn as you go

 

 

Hmm, I,'ve set my inverter to switch off if the batteries go under 47.5 v under load.

I can try that, thanks

lets just remember that battery voltage is a very poor indicator for a state of charge. its been said here before but if you can invest in a BMV then you should.  

Will ask from suppliers thanks Weasel

12 minutes ago, Natures Heaven said:

Will ask from suppliers thanks Weasel

Ask @Camel here on the forum for a price on a BMV.

EDIT: you are not going to beat his price anywhere. And get a Victron.Connect USB cable too.

I heard my name??? 

the last bvm702 i bought was R2250excl and the usb direct was around R190excl

13 hours ago, Weasel said:

lets just remember that battery voltage is a very poor indicator for a state of charge. its been said here before but if you can invest in a BMV then you should.  

But it's is a good indicator of a problem, either undercharge, overload or both. Not good to have batteries at 46V. According to my Trojan graph that is about 10% SOC at zero load.

WOW Mark that is cheap!