Converting a wind pump to a wind generator

[DeepBass9]

I think I have pulled out my wind pump pipes for the last time. What a chore, especially if you drop the pipes and have to fish them out again. Electric pumps are so much easier. I don't think I have the patience to fix the pump and drop it down again (the pump ran dry) So what do I do with the wind head now? Is it possible to convert it to a wind generator easily? I used to have a permanent magnet alternator that I could have used via a belt or chain somehow, but I don't have that anymore. Has anyone done this, or come across anyone that has done this? 

[DeepBass9]

This is the schematic of the gearbox.  

[DeepBass9]

I suppose it may be possible to fit a generator with a small gear to engage with the large gears in the gearbox, and then possibly more gears to get the RPM up further. A wind pump probably doesn't turn much quicker than 100RPM, but has a lot of torque.

[___]

I was thankfully never involved with any fishing attempts, though my father told me some stories. Usually it involved a rusted pipe... and you'd be pulling out pipes (around 40 meter of it) when the next moment there is no more pipe... just rod. Now when you see that you want to cry, because not only are there pipes left down in the hole, the cylinder is at the end of them! In this particular story, thankfully the rod got stuck lower down in another pipe and started pulling the rest of the pipes, so when suddenly some pipe was seen again..... STOP THE TRACTOR... clamp that pipe before we lose it again!

Then one day I helped my father in law pull the pipes. He disappeared into the shed and came out with a hessian bag with a big hand-pulled pulley system. Mmmmh, how is this going to work I wondered. Two and a half lengths of pipe later I figured it out: Really shallow water!

Then there was the time we had roots in the hole and had to clean it out, ramming it with a long set of pipes and a blade at the bottom. We went back and forward so many times the clutch on the tractor started smoking...

Anyway, so all I know about alternators is that they need high RPMs and this makes them rather unsuitable for this sort of thing. You might be better off just pulling the head and mounting a real turbine on top. Not sure how tall this tower is, the ones I grew up with were 12 meter tall.

[___]

Stewards and Lloyds used to make a rotary pump. It head a gearbox at the top that would speed it up and swivel it by 90 degrees, and then you'd have a mono-pump at the bottom. The rods on that thing had to be well aligned and balanced, at high wind speeds the vibration that would generate in the tower caused some problems on the earlier models. Anyway, if you could find one of those heads, you could put another pulley and belt system at the bottom to drive the alternator. Of course that also involves pulling the head, and it also involves putting a "new" one on. I doubt this suggestion is helpful at all :-)

[DeepBass9]

This is a 6m tower with an 8ft climax head. Seems a waste to toss it, as the head works, i.e. turns the wind into mechanical energy. I think its a matter of just getting a suitably sized generator and the right gearing.

Luckily for my fishing attempt the whole lot just dropped a few meters and then wedged against the electric pump which was lower down the hole and I managed to screw some other pipes onto the top. Really stuffed up that weekend!

 

[___]

Ja nee, the Namibians would joke about these small windmills in the Vrystaat and Karoo, jy staan sommer op die grond as jy aan sy kop werk!

[Chris Hobson]

58 minutes ago, DeepBass9 said:

I think I have pulled out my wind pump pipes for the last time. What a chore......

I seem to remember DB advising you against buying another mill. Practical experience seems to have tempered your enthusiasm.

Changing a mill to have rotary motion when it has converted rotary motion into linear motion I think is not going to be easy. You could extend the main shaft out through the back plate of the head and put a pulley onto that. One could then dispense with the gears and Pittman arms. This is however means modifying the head.

Without modifying the head I am wondering whether you could not have a rack and pinion system for producing power using an alternator that  then can be rectified to DC. I have no clue as to minimum speed etc. and whether an automotive alternator would heat up turning the wrong way round for ½ the time (the fins provide cooling for motion in one direction). Secondly would the stop/start really give you appreciable power.  You could ensure the Pittman arms are in the outer holes in the large gears (yes that's what they are called) increasing the length of the stroke and so there would be less stationary time. The other set of gears are the pinion gears.

 

[Chris Hobson]

24 minutes ago, plonkster said:

Ja nee, the Namibians would joke about these small windmills in the Vrystaat and Karoo, jy staan sommer op die grond as jy aan sy kop werk!

Plonky I have a mill with a 7m head (21ft) on a 17m tower. I have another in a valley with only a 8ft head but also on a 17m(55ft)  tower.  The rest of the towers are standard 7-10m towers.

[DeepBass9]

Hmm, I must climb up there and check the back of the main shaft, i seem to remember so holes tapped into the back of it. I'm not planning on using the up and down motion, rather just using the main shaft rotation somehow.

[Chris Hobson]

There is a circular plate on Climax heads that covers the back end of the shaft.

 

[___]

You could install another wheel at the bottom, turn that using the up and down motion, turning it back into circular motion, but if you don't get the engineering right it could easily end up going in reverse. Like a Lanz Bulldog... :-)

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[Chris Hobson]

13 hours ago, plonkster said:

You could install another wheel at the bottom, turn that using the up and down motion, turning it back into circular motion, but if you don't get the engineering right it could easily end up going in reverse. Like a Lanz Bulldog... :-)

This would be the easiest to implement :

• flywheel with eccentric hole for the wooden pump rod to drive.
• if the mill does not have it guides to keep the pump rod vertical.

The advantages are

• no modification to the mill
• flywheel easy to manufacture/ find/ modify.
• replaceable parts limited to one 40x40 wooden rod

Depending on your system you could look at a 24V alternator or two in tandem.

[___]

As I recall the pump needs weight at the bottom too, it can only pull up, not push down. So efficiency is probably going to be limited as you're strictly working only half the time.

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[DeepBass9]

Too complex and inefficient to turn circular motion to up and down and then back to circular. I'll continue my internet hunt to see if someone has a successful conversion.

[___]

11 minutes ago, DeepBass9 said:

Too complex and inefficient to turn circular motion to up and down and then back to circular. I'll continue my internet hunt to see if someone has a successful conversion.

I tend to agree. You will essentially lift a weight and then let that weight turn the wheel at the bottom. If you make the weight too light, you lose power. If you make it too heavy, you need more windspeed to start. It was an interesting idea but that's probably stretching the definition if "interesting".

What could be interesting in a non-stretchy way... doing the same thing with a mill that's still pumping water... essentially using the downward pull of the rods/water as your counterweight, getting water and power out of it... :-)

[DeepBass9]

Here's a possible solution, back to the water pumping though. Anyone had any experience with this? http://www.agrim.co.za/Staden-Plastic-System/Staden-System-Advantages/

[Chris Hobson]

On 09/09/2016 at 8:38 AM, plonkster said:

AsI recall the pump needs weight at the bottom too, it can only pull up, not push down. So efficiency is probably going to be limited as you're strictly working only half the time.

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On 09/09/2016 at 9:54 AM, DeepBass9 said:

Too complex and inefficient to turn circular motion to up and down and then back to circular. I'll continue my internet hunt to see if someone has a successful conversion.

There will be some inefficiencies but negligible considering the costs of modifying the head.  

[Chris Hobson]

1 hour ago, DeepBass9 said:

Here's a possible solution, back to the water pumping though. Anyone had any experience with this? http://www.agrim.co.za/Staden-Plastic-System/Staden-System-Advantages/

I still have 3 of these. My dad installed them. I don't like them. The forcehead is forever leaking. If they don't have to lift water higher than the top of the forcehead they are OK.

[DeepBass9]

Ok, they are quite cheap. About R5k for the whole setup, but how many watts of solar will that buy? About 600W. Probably better to stay with electric pumps. 

[Chris-R]

Hi Chris, we use to have a paraffin "device" at the bottom of the windmill, running in parallel with the windmill. It was green painted, started on petrol and switched over to paraffin once it was hot . Can't remember the name ( Old age ), but when there were no wind we could start this motor and pump water. It had a massive flywheel. What if you disconnect the pipes in the borehole, fit a pully to the flywheel and get the alternator running with the fan belt? Just an idea?

[___]

Wolseley engines ran from Paraffin if I recall. That was a bit before my time, but some farmers still had them when I was younger. That would then drive a so-called "kragkop" which would pump the water using the convention push-pull rod system.

I don't know if an old-fashioned kragkop would work to convert the motion back into rotation, and the issue where the windmill needs a weight at the bottom as it only pulls up (can't push down, as anyone who's had a sticky force-head knows)... probably not going to work, at least not without significant modifications.

[Johann1982]

Hi Guys, one of my friends live out on a farm where he is totally off-grid. He currently has 1x 5kva axpert, 12x 100ah Lead Acid batteries and 3x 260W Panels. He is fine during the summer, but winter is a problem. He obviously needs more batteries, but his bank is over a year old already and shouldn't add to it. There is a small hill just above his house where the wind blows constantly. Would a wind turbine be more effective in the long run or should he rather add another 3x panels and replace his bank with 16x 100ah 12v Gel Batteries? Or should he risk adding another 4x batteries to his old bank?

[Guest]

Johann, nope, the bank is too old.

IF the wind blows a lot on that hill at night, I would go for a wind turbine to power the loads at night. Daytime it is just extra power.

If he can get the loads to only use the batteries to DOD of 10-20% (SOC of 90%, lowest 80%) , emergency down to 50% once in a while, the bank should last a little while longer.

What type of batts does he have?

[Johann1982]

Hi TTT

100ah 12v Stride. No, he drained those batts almost every night to around 30% SOC during the winter. I told him in the beginning that 12 batteries will not be enough. Also, in winter the panels don't produce enough power to float the batteries and run the loads in the house. Maybe he should get some of those Narada batteries?