Hi All,

I am a very clueless noob and I am looking at installing solar at my home.  I requested a few quotes from installers around September 2021 and there were two quotes that looked good.  I decided to hold off on the solar installation until this year so that I can better understand what I need.

In terms of usage, I spend around R2,500 to R3,000 per month – I think this translates to around 900 to 1,000 units. My stove is gas. My over and geyser are powered by Eskom. The aim is to reduce my electricity bill through solar and have back up power when loadshedding starts again. I am not looking at being off-grid (I can’t afford it and it sounds admin intensive) but I want to reduce my reliance on Eskom by 70% to 80% and then have coverage for loadshedding.  I know that my geyser (150 litres) probably contributes the most towards my monthly usage but the plan is to separately convert it to solar.

One of the installers was concerned about the prepaid meter (Landis Gyr+) and that it will treat the solar generated electricity as Eskom electricity.  I raised the same concern with another installer (installer two below) but he wasn’t particularly concerned about it (I think he has a way around this).

To be honest, I am not sure if the items listed in the quotes that I have been provided (together with the geyser conversion) will be sufficient to reduce my reliance on Eskom by 70% – 80% and I would appreciate some thoughts and guidance on what would be optimal.

Broadly speaking, the quotes (all in, including installation) that I received from the two installers were similar but here’s a breakdown of the inverter, battery, panels and price:

	Installer One	Installer Two
Inverter	Deye or Sunsynk 5KW inverter	Deye or Sunsynk 5KW inverter
Battery	4.8KW lithium battery (brand wasn’t included in the quote)	5.12KW lithium battery (Shoto)
Panels	12 x JA Solar 410W mono solar panels	8 x CSUN 400W half cell modules mono panels
Price	R88,835 (including VAT)	R85,238 (including VAT)

 

Should I go for a bigger inverter (ie Sunsynk 8KW) or is 5KW sufficient? On the batteries, should I go for 2 x 5KW? Are there any recommended affordable battery brands?

Also, I am thinking that maybe I should get one or two more quotes, please let me know if there are any recommended installers who can do installations in the Fourways area?

Noob as well 

it sounds admin intensive - this statement says you should rather go for 8kw - 5kw may result inconstant "admin" of loads and family

Geyser - put on timers and use your access generation during the mid day to heat geyser(covered in blanket)

Battery - not always seen as a cost saving but convenience how much do you want - 10Kw will result in less admin at night

 

But - suggest you get idea of what is using your 1000 units and when and then plan around that

how often do you use oven,

do you have aircons 

when - time of day -do you use most units

 

Rough thumbsucks. Installer 2 is giving you fewer panels and lower generation capacity. On average installer 2 could cover around 50% of your usage. Installer 1 at least gives you enough panels that covering 70-80% of your usage most of the time is a real possibility, especially if you can find ways to reduce your usage on the geyser. But a lot depends on when you use that power. If most of the usage is at night, the single battery is probably not enough and you probably won't see the full benefit of the panels.

A 5 kW inverter is OK if you're geyser and stove are on non essential loads. I recommend getting batteries that your inverter can "talk too", this will help with setup and correct usage of the batteries. Many have been frustrated by battery problems because of incorrect settings. I personally have a Sunsynk 8.8 kW inverter, and two Hubble AM-2 5.5 kW batteries. In the almost year I have had this setup, everything has worked perfectly with no problems. My usage used to be +- 800 to 1000 kWh a month, now with 6.6 kWp of panels (and bad weather in KZN midlands) it's about 300 kWh a month. Hope you enjoy you're savings and system when you get it.

I like installer one's quote more. That is about what i paid for my system but i did install it myself. My usage is 900-1000kwh a month aswell. The system has been running for about a year now with 80-90 % savings on bills. I recommend Pylontech batteries which is probably what is on your quote number one as they make a 4,8kwh battery,make sure though and go for atleast 2 of them. JA solar panels are also very good. I went for the 5kw inverter as i dont spend enough time above 5kw to justify the extra cost for the 8kw inverter,you will have to determine if you really need that extra capacity. When you split your loads properly (essential /non essential) the 5kw can be more than enough IMO and is one of the greatest features of this full hybrid because you can get away with using a smaller inverter without having to worry about overloading it.

I was using 1000 units before solar, now with 5kw sunsynk, 15 x 455watt panels and a single pylontech us3000c i use less than 350 units per month to run 2 electric geysers, a pool pump for most of the day, and an electric stove and oven. An 8kw would work better for me as we exceed the 5kw on the non essential side when the geysers are running. With more batteries i could get eskom down to around 100 units a month.

Hi All

Thank you very much for your valuable contribution.  Apologies if this is a noob question, @Quintrix how do I check “what is using [my] 1000 units and when” and “when - time of day -do [I] use most units”?  Is this an expensive exercise? My assumption is that my geyser is the culprit because it’s always on 24/7. I will definitely get a timer for it as suggested in this thread.

To answer some of the questions:

·        we use the oven approximately 3 to 5 times week and on the odd Sunday, we use it to braise for about 3 to 4 hours;

·        I don’t have an aircon but I’m planning on installing one.

It seems like installer one’s solution is the preferred option however maybe I’m too gullible and I easily fall for sales pitches, I found installer two to be more knowledgeable.  Both installers sell the equipment and do installations however the after-sale support from installer two seems great – they regularly monitor power production from previous installations and they can troubleshoot and provide support remotely by accessing your inverter.

I reached out to installer two yesterday and I got a revised quote which includes: (i) Deye or Sunsynk 5KW inverter; (ii) 2 x 5.12KW lithium battery (Shoto); and (iii) 10 x 420W Half cell Modules Mono panel (I assume that these are CSUN) for R126,132. They also sent me a quote for converting my geyser to solar – it will cost me R24,477 and it includes 3 x 340W JA Solar Panel Monocrystalline Half Cell.

Fortunately, I found this thread (https://powerforum.co.za/topic/11340-friendlytoasts-journey-to-off-grid-some-noob-questions-to-get-started/) a day ago and I like the advice on that thread (ie in my case – as opposed to looking at a separate solution for my geyser, spend the money on more panels and an 8KW Sunsynk).

My budget is R140,000 (I can probably stretch it to R145,000) including installation. 

I would appreciate your views on whether the quote from installer two seem reasonable - I have attached a copy of the quote? Should I shop around some more? Do you have any recommendations?

I will reach out to installer one again for a revised quote on the basis of: (i) a 8KW Sunsynk; (ii) twice the amount of batteries; and (iii) more or higher watt panels.

Revised Quote (Installer Two).pdf

Firstly, don't guestimate how many units per month you use, read the meter. That will tell you. Some of what you pay per month might be fixed fees for providing a connection - that's not going to go away.

The problem of the meter handling fed back power or not is only an issue if you are going to feed back.

Options vary according to where you live and who delivers the power to your property. I live in Johannesburg and I get my electricity from City Power. I was on the pre-paid tariff before install (anybody can convert to this, still). That meant I paid more per kw/h, but nothing in flat fees. I recovered the cost of the conversion in about 3 months. Post-paid customers in Jhb are paying about R700 a month in admin fees, then a lower rate per kw/h.

My pre-paid meter (Itron) can't tell the difference between power I buy from the grid and power that I export. So if I export 4kw/h in a given day, it will reduce my credit balance by that 4kw/h.

OK... so COJ provide a reseller's tariff, but I have to have a suitable meter installed at my expense, I start paying fixed admin fees every month, and the buy-back tariff is miserly. I would lose money on this option, so I just set my system to not export any excess.

So check out tariffs to see what options you have - and include any costs involved in switching tariffs in your calculations.

Back to checking the meter. That will tell you how much power your property really uses, giving you a better base for planning.

Then you need to look for big loads and time of day. Once you go solar you want to do as much electrical heavy lifting during sunny hours as possible. 

 

I am in Ekhurhuleni and converted from Tariff B to Tariff A after my Solar installation. On Tariff A you pay a flat fee off R1.81 per Unit and you get 100 units free every month, but don't exceed 600 Units because then it becomes very expensive.

Kat I would take the R24k for the geyser and get more Solar Panels, that way you can use the excess PV on other loads as well.

11 hours ago, JacoG said:

Kat I would take the R24k for the geyser and get more Solar Panels, that way you can use the excess PV on other loads as well.

This ^^

Get an 8kw and more panels with the money you would have used to convert the geyser to solar. If you get a true hybrid like a Sunsynk / Deye then you can use it to charge your geyser from the excess solar. A 5kw should also be sufficient, i run a house of 4 (2 adults and 2 kids) off a 5KW BUT it IS limited in terms of PV and what loads it can support. It can run the dishwasher, pool pump, house base load and washing machine with no struggle but if the microwave comes on then it struggles. If you use over 4/5Kw for a large part of the day then rather get an 8kw

Also try powerguru.co.za - they did my installation and im very happy with it (Thula - +27 67 603 9225)

The quote from installer 2 seems reasonable on paper, comprehensive, and not an obvious rip-off.

How to check what's using your power and when? Various different watt meters/energy monitors on the market that can track usage throughout the day, and your municipal meter. Other approach from the bottom up is to know the power consumption of your appliances in KiloWatt, and know for how long you would typically operate it at any time of day, then compare it to the amount of solar generation or battery storage in kWh/units you have available at that time of the day. Check user manuals, labels/plaques on your appliances, or google typical power consumption of devices you intend to buy. Look up solar power generation forecasts for your area. Less accurate than measurements, but it's not possible to measure what you don't yet have installed. Also doesn't cost you anything really.

Maybe good to understand that if the geyser is emptied of hot water for an evening bath, the incoming cold water will just about drain the first 5kWh battery all by itself to re-heat unless you set the timer to run only by day. Once the temperature is reached and the thermostat stops the element, its average consumption/losses are ballpark under 100W, even if instant power drawn by the element is 3000W or 4000W whenever the heating kicks in.

Oven's consumption could be around 3-4kW. Run that for an hour at dusk, and that'll drain a good chunk of your other 5kWh battery. Sunday lunch can happily be braised for hours over noon completely on solar. 

For your current usage, a 5kW is probably okay, but if the aircon is planned, best to go bigger for the 8kW.

Get CBI AStute for geyser and buy a smart WIFI (about R250)plug that can measure usage - this will give you idea of what the different appliances use ( or you can base estimate on specs). 

 

Buy or borrow Efergy (or similar) to constantly measure global usage.

Study your uasge patterns - make notes of what you do and when throughout day - can you do washing earlier , run pool pump and geyser during sunlight hours -do  you need to heat geyser after sunset or is water warm enough if geyser covered with blanket?

 

Edited March 9, 20224 yr by Quintrix
added info

Thank you all - I really appreciate your contributions! I am dropping the solar geyser conversion. I got a revised quote which includes an 8KW Sunsynk, 2 x 5.12KW lithium battery and 10 x 545w Canadian / JA Solar Panels for around R149,000. For the sake of completeness, I will shop around for two comparative quotes. 

I will pull the trigger on the solar installation once I have better sense of what my usage looks like.

On 2022/03/11 at 10:56 AM, This_isKat said:

Thank you all - I really appreciate your contributions! I am dropping the solar geyser conversion. I got a revised quote which includes an 8KW Sunsynk, 2 x 5.12KW lithium battery and 10 x 545w Canadian / JA Solar Panels for around R149,000. For the sake of completeness, I will shop around for two comparative quotes. 

I will pull the trigger on the solar installation once I have better sense of what my usage looks like.

please keep us updated.

Who supplied quote , if you don't mind?

On 2022/03/21 at 7:09 AM, Quintrix said:

please keep us updated.

Who supplied quote , if you don't mind?

Sure, I will keep you guys updated.

Solar Supply (https://solarsupply.co.za/) provided me with the quote.

Hi All,

Just as an update, as of yesterday (27 June 2022), my system is fully up and running. Which is perfect timing given the threat of stage 6 loadshedding announced in the morning.  I ended up going for: (i) 1 x  Sunsynk 8KW inverter; (ii) 2 x Hubble 5.5 kWh batteries; and (iii) 12 x Jinko 545W panels. 6 panels are north facing and the other 6 panels are facing west.

I followed the recommended advice and bought a meter to get a sense of my usage, the meter only worked on plugged electronics but based on the data, the usage from plugged electronics was not significant. My geyser and oven were definitely the biggest contributors towards my electricity usage. 

I ended up going for a different installer. His quote was considerable better than everyone else that I spoke to and met with (including the installers that I mentioned above). It took some time to get the installation started because I wanted to be comfortable (as a noob) that I have researched everything that I needed to - also there were stock shortages on the Hubble batteries.

The installer put everything on essential except the geyser and oven. The geyser and oven are on non-essential but they get powered from excess solar during the day and at night they draw from the grid. The installer also included a geyser timer for free and I am now able to monitor usage from my geyser on an app (CBI). What's concerning is that the geyser was on from 4am until 6am and then again from 9am until 10am, and as at 11am, the geyser has already used 13kWh. My geyser is a 150 litre geyser but I suspect (and according to the app) that the element is a 4kw.

Other than the issue with the geyser element (which I will sort out in the coming days by replacing the current element with a 2kw element), I am happy with the installation.

Thank you all for your valuable insights - I really appreciate it!

Edited June 28, 20224 yr by This_isKat

Hi Kat

Thanks for the update.

What was the final cost for the installation as I am considering something similar?

I paid around R176,000. So far so good, I am happy with the system.

On 2022/06/28 at 11:28 AM, This_isKat said:

Hi All,

Just as an update, as of yesterday (27 June 2022), my system is fully up and running. Which is perfect timing given the threat of stage 6 loadshedding announced in the morning.  I ended up going for: (i) 1 x  Sunsynk 8KW inverter; (ii) 2 x Hubble 5.5 kWh batteries; and (iii) 12 x Jinko 545W panels. 6 panels are north facing and the other 6 panels are facing west.

I followed the recommended advice and bought a meter to get a sense of my usage, the meter only worked on plugged electronics but based on the data, the usage from plugged electronics was not significant. My geyser and oven were definitely the biggest contributors towards my electricity usage. 

I ended up going for a different installer. His quote was considerable better than everyone else that I spoke to and met with (including the installers that I mentioned above). It took some time to get the installation started because I wanted to be comfortable (as a noob) that I have researched everything that I needed to - also there were stock shortages on the Hubble batteries.

The installer put everything on essential except the geyser and oven. The geyser and oven are on non-essential but they get powered from excess solar during the day and at night they draw from the grid. The installer also included a geyser timer for free and I am now able to monitor usage from my geyser on an app (CBI). What's concerning is that the geyser was on from 4am until 6am and then again from 9am until 10am, and as at 11am, the geyser has already used 13kWh. My geyser is a 150 litre geyser but I suspect (and according to the app) that the element is a 4kw.

Other than the issue with the geyser element (which I will sort out in the coming days by replacing the current element with a 2kw element), I am happy with the installation.

Thank you all for your valuable insights - I really appreciate it!

Switching to a smaller element will only mean the element has to be on for even longer (although it will obviously use less power while it is on). The only way to save electricity in your water heating is to take shorter/colder shower. 

42 minutes ago, Speedster said:

Switching to a smaller element will only mean the element has to be on for even longer (although it will obviously use less power while it is on). The only way to save electricity in your water heating is to take shorter/colder shower. 

Well... there's also lagging the pipes, putting a blanket on the geyser, and water saving shower heads (which do save electricity, although that's not their primary function, because they let less through, so there's less reheating required). RE temperature, as I see it, if you have to add cold water to get a comfortable shower then you have wasted energy overheating the water. Turn the thermostat down.

At my home we have a heat pump on a timer to heat the water. Pipes are lagged and we have a blanket on the geyser.

The heat pump runs twice a day. In the morning it gets the water to 55 degrees (plenty for me) in less than 2 hours. It uses about 1.2 kw/h. My battery can take that, and recharging starts as the PV comes on line. I have a short shower, and don't run the water all the time: Get wet, water off, soap up & scrub, then water back on to rinse. If you want to be hard core then catch the grey water in a bucket and use it for flushing a toilet. 

Anyway... the pump switches on again at 12:00, reheats to 55 degrees, and with a little care it's still plenty warm enough for a decent shower at 18:00 or 19:00.

The shower head is RST. These keep down water usage whilst generating strong, multiple jets of water. They have a 2 way restrictor that can be run in 2 modes: basically economical and super economical (though you will notice the latter). 

On a broader note, you maximise alternate energy systems when you adjust your routines to fit. EG if you have a solar geyser don't shower early AM or late at night. If you do then you're not making the most of the solar power.

On 2022/07/05 at 11:41 AM, This_isKat said:

I paid around R176,000. So far so good, I am happy with the system.

Hi @This_isKatwould u mind sharing the installers details? 

On 2022/07/05 at 3:06 PM, Bobster. said:

Well... there's also lagging the pipes, putting a blanket on the geyser, and water saving shower heads (which do save electricity, although that's not their primary function, because they let less through, so there's less reheating required). RE temperature, as I see it, if you have to add cold water to get a comfortable shower then you have wasted energy overheating the water. Turn the thermostat down.

At my home we have a heat pump on a timer to heat the water. Pipes are lagged and we have a blanket on the geyser.

The heat pump runs twice a day. In the morning it gets the water to 55 degrees (plenty for me) in less than 2 hours. It uses about 1.2 kw/h. My battery can take that, and recharging starts as the PV comes on line. I have a short shower, and don't run the water all the time: Get wet, water off, soap up & scrub, then water back on to rinse. If you want to be hard core then catch the grey water in a bucket and use it for flushing a toilet. 

Anyway... the pump switches on again at 12:00, reheats to 55 degrees, and with a little care it's still plenty warm enough for a decent shower at 18:00 or 19:00.

The shower head is RST. These keep down water usage whilst generating strong, multiple jets of water. They have a 2 way restrictor that can be run in 2 modes: basically economical and super economical (though you will notice the latter). 

On a broader note, you maximise alternate energy systems when you adjust your routines to fit. EG if you have a solar geyser don't shower early AM or late at night. If you do then you're not making the most of the solar power.

Thanks @Bobster. for the valuable information. I will explore further. I have made some slight changes to my routine and I have noticed a small difference - which is better than nothing.

On 2022/07/14 at 10:06 PM, T_C said:

Hi @This_isKatwould u mind sharing the installers details? 

I used Sakisa Energy and Technology. Here's a link to their website - https://sakisa.co.za/. You can also check out their YouTube channel for videos of some of their previous installations (including mine).

On 2022/06/28 at 11:28 AM, This_isKat said:

Hi All,

Just as an update, as of yesterday (27 June 2022), my system is fully up and running. Which is perfect timing given the threat of stage 6 loadshedding announced in the morning.  I ended up going for: (i) 1 x  Sunsynk 8KW inverter; (ii) 2 x Hubble 5.5 kWh batteries; and (iii) 12 x Jinko 545W panels. 6 panels are north facing and the other 6 panels are facing west.

I followed the recommended advice and bought a meter to get a sense of my usage, the meter only worked on plugged electronics but based on the data, the usage from plugged electronics was not significant. My geyser and oven were definitely the biggest contributors towards my electricity usage. 

I ended up going for a different installer. His quote was considerable better than everyone else that I spoke to and met with (including the installers that I mentioned above). It took some time to get the installation started because I wanted to be comfortable (as a noob) that I have researched everything that I needed to - also there were stock shortages on the Hubble batteries.

The installer put everything on essential except the geyser and oven. The geyser and oven are on non-essential but they get powered from excess solar during the day and at night they draw from the grid. The installer also included a geyser timer for free and I am now able to monitor usage from my geyser on an app (CBI). What's concerning is that the geyser was on from 4am until 6am and then again from 9am until 10am, and as at 11am, the geyser has already used 13kWh. My geyser is a 150 litre geyser but I suspect (and according to the app) that the element is a 4kw.

Other than the issue with the geyser element (which I will sort out in the coming days by replacing the current element with a 2kw element), I am happy with the installation.

Thank you all for your valuable insights - I really appreciate it!

You must have used quite a bit of hot water between 6h and 9h to get to 13kwh. On a 4kw 150L geyser the 1st 2 hours should have got to a temp where the thermostat switched it off. If it was on say another hour at 9h some hot water was used. Normal heat loss could account for about 250Wh.