HawkI Posted April 7, 2022 Posted April 7, 2022 I am just about to install solar(20 x 515w panels) . I currently use about 1500 kWh per month so hoping to significantly reduce my consumption down to hopefully around 200-400 kWh. My monthly COJ bill is between R3k and R4k Is it advisable to move to prepaid? as I understand it, you pay slightly more per kWh on prepaid but you dont have the network and service charges which in my case is almost R1000 per month. I already have a 3phase smart meter (hexing HXE34) so no costs to install a new prepaid meter I assume - is that correct? Quote
gpigeon Posted April 7, 2022 Posted April 7, 2022 Interesting numbers "Hawki"...... Looks like from your figures that power in SA costs about R2.66/kWh. I am on the East coast of OZ and my house is totally off grid but i have a shed that is grid connect but has 10kW of panels on it. We pay A$0.30 per kWh (plus $1.40 per day access fee) for power supplied and get back A$0.17 per kWh for power exported to the grid. The current exchange rate is about R11 = A$1, so say that works out to about 24c per kWh that you pay. Not much difference!!! What is even more interesting is that when I left RSA (I worked in JHB and Durban for about 7 yrs) in 1979 the exchange rate was about 1 for 1. However I would not think that your standard of living has changed very much over that period???? Quote
HawkI Posted April 8, 2022 Author Posted April 8, 2022 Hey GPigeon. seems like the costs are very close - except of the part about getting Paid to put back into the grid - its possible in SA but have heard many stories of how its not financially viable or worth the huge amount of hoops to jump through to get it done. Exchange rate fluctuations is a complex topic but yeah, the standard of living hasn't changed much for South Africans with money - hope this doesn't trigger a whole separate discussion on politics or economics :-) Its been almost 10 yrs since I was in Australia but will be travelling to visit family later this year - looking forward to it. Quote
giggsie Posted April 25, 2022 Posted April 25, 2022 Thanks For the Post @HawkI and i don't mean to hijack your post here. I have the exact same question on the Prepaid issue. I have heard the same about the Network and Service charge being dropped if you make the move but to prepaid but would love to get confirmation from anyone on the forum that has made the move in the last year. also if they could share some comments about the experience, Costs involved, ETA and the best process to follow. I have heard from someone at work that if you go through a 3rd party to do the change over to prepaid you pay a % to them each time you buy prepaid units so this then adds an additional tariff to the expense which i feel should be avoided if this is in fact the case. Like you i am also trying to work out the cost benefit and ROI for adding solar to eventually move away from the reliance on Eskom. I am also in Jo'burg and located on the West Rand where in the last 2 months we have had two outages that have lasted 2 to 3 days a piece. So now the aspect of being self sustained is beginning to be a bit more of a driving force for me and my family. Quote
Bobster. Posted April 25, 2022 Posted April 25, 2022 (edited) The benefits and paper work in switching from post to pre-paid will vary with location and supplier and who your current municipal meter is. I switched from post to pre paid in Johannesburg a few years back. The process then was Apply in person at a municipal client service center (they will not deal with anybody but the registered property owner). City Power will inspect and see what, if anything, needs to change. City Power will quote on you the cost of the change over If you give the go-ahead they will install a pre-paid meter with a small number of units pre-loaded You now start feeding the meter In the meantime they have to wind up the post-paid account, this will take a couple of months. Until that is done you have to pay the post-paid charges on your account AND feed the meter. I received a nice credit on my account 3 months after installation. The City will not offer you a chance to change tariffs if you are in dispute with them over billing. When I changed over the savings (I didn't have solar at the time) were worthwhile. You paid more per Kw/h, but, as you note, there were no fixed charges. The higher charge per kw/h meant that there was a (quite high) point at which it was cheaper to remain on post paid. Pre-paid billing is on a stepped tariff, like post-paid. The more you use, the more you pay. When I changed over the first 500 units in the month were the cheapest. As I regularly used less than that in a month I bought 500 each month and the meter would build up a credit. So when I went on holiday I just forgot about the meter, it had plenty on it. These days the tariff steps are moved, and now the first 350 units are cheapest. But I am on solar now, so I don't regularly buy pre-paid. If you go a few months without buying you can be sure they will flag your account and come to inspect. So get the quote. Also load down the tariffs and do the sums. Will you save or not? Most folks still will. If you are going to convert to solar then it is a no-brainer because you will use much less power and the fixed charges will have fallen away. NB! For the last three budgets in Jhb it has been proposed that pre-paid users pay a R200 pm levy. The first time the then City government said that it had been sneaked into the budget after they signed off. The next year it was adopted and then dropped as part of a hardship alleviation process. The third year (last year) it was proposed as part of a complex set of changes, with the levy waived if you agreed to a 20A main breaker, but eventually the status quo was maintained and everybody got hit with the Eskom % per kw/h. Point is: This is not going to go away. Eskom and Municipalities are keen to have a two part charge for electricity - a fixed component for the provision of a service, and a variable component according to your consumption. COJ will be debating new tariffs again, so maybe wait until the 2022/3 tariffs are passed and then do the sums. In all cases, no matter where you stay and who supplies you, tariffs will be in the public domain and you should do some sums to see how much you will save and then balance that against any outlay. Edited April 25, 2022 by Bobster mor sppeling WannabeSolarSparky and system32 2 Quote
Bobster. Posted April 25, 2022 Posted April 25, 2022 On 2022/04/07 at 5:29 PM, HawkI said: I am just about to install solar(20 x 515w panels) . I currently use about 1500 kWh per month so hoping to significantly reduce my consumption down to hopefully around 200-400 kWh. My monthly COJ bill is between R3k and R4k That's a lot of electricity. Whether you are converting to solar or not, you should try to figure out where all that is going and where you can make savings. The big consumers are usually ovens, pumps and geysers. If your geysers are turned up unnecessarily high, turn the thermostats down. The geyser is usually the big one, but try switching to LED lighting, and don't run the pool pump more than necessary. Remember, the lower the load, the longer the batteries in your solar system will last and thus the better protection you will have. Quote
Bobster. Posted April 25, 2022 Posted April 25, 2022 45 minutes ago, giggsie said: I have heard from someone at work that if you go through a 3rd party to do the change over to prepaid you pay a % to them each time you buy prepaid units so this then adds an additional tariff to the expense which i feel should be avoided if this is in fact the case. There are two kinds of pre-paid electricity arrangements 1) The property owner pre-pays the municipality by buying units ahead of consumption. In this case, in Johannesburg, a 2.5% commission for the vendor is built into the tariff. 2) The property owner is letting out the property or a portion there of and doesn't want to get left with a big electricity bill that his tenant ran up. So you contract with a 3rd party who settles the municipal account on your behalf and then recovers that amount and makes a profit by requiring the person on the pre-paid feed to buy tokens from them. Quote
giggsie Posted April 25, 2022 Posted April 25, 2022 Thanks @Bobsterthis is a really concise breakdown and very helpful. Appreciate all the help and advice. Quote
Piper Posted April 25, 2022 Posted April 25, 2022 There are also two tariff rates for prepaid and post paid that you should look at. https://ltcelectricalservices.co.za/electrician-in-edenvale-and-bedfordview-boksburg-benoni-germiston-bruma-alberton/ekhureleni-electricity-charges-explained/#:~:text=The cost of electricity in,819 units in one month.&text=The cost is R2.,unit no matter the consumption. Quote
Sc00bs Posted April 26, 2022 Posted April 26, 2022 @Bobster Not sure that COJ is ever going to get it right to implement a R200 network connection fee on prepaid. They are doing their best to get Soweto residents to start paying for electricity and I don't think that a R200 connection fee would be very popular. I switched my 3-phase supply to pre-paid and it is the biggest win ever (I only use 1 phase). The connection fee alone was R600 a month and there is no point where it is cheaper to buy post paid no matter how much electricity you use. Quote
Leshen Posted April 27, 2022 Posted April 27, 2022 5 hours ago, Sc00bs said: @Bobster Not sure that COJ is ever going to get it right to implement a R200 network connection fee on prepaid. They are doing their best to get Soweto residents to start paying for electricity and I don't think that a R200 connection fee would be very popular. I switched my 3-phase supply to pre-paid and it is the biggest win ever (I only use 1 phase). The connection fee alone was R600 a month and there is no point where it is cheaper to buy post paid no matter how much electricity you use. Hey John. I’m also a direct Eskom customer and moved to prepaid and still pay a monthly service fee. Meter number: 04272680259 Amount: R376.40 Service Fee: R123.60 Units: 178.40 kWh Ref: 20220416/Nedbank/003452197635 Your prepaid electricity token: 0443-5459-1278-9333-1121 For help call Nedbank on 0800555111 This is when I purchased for R500. Quote
Bobster. Posted April 27, 2022 Posted April 27, 2022 8 hours ago, Sc00bs said: @Bobster Not sure that COJ is ever going to get it right to implement a R200 network connection fee on prepaid. They are doing their best to get Soweto residents to start paying for electricity and I don't think that a R200 connection fee would be very popular. I don't say it would be popular. But it is low hanging fruit. They know which properties have municipal prepaid meters, and the proposal has been to add a R200 levy to rates for such properties. 8 hours ago, Sc00bs said: I switched my 3-phase supply to pre-paid and it is the biggest win ever (I only use 1 phase). The connection fee alone was R600 a month and there is no point where it is cheaper to buy post paid no matter how much electricity you use. I did some modelling a few years ago, that showed that a certain point the higher price per kw/h will make post paid cheaper, but that point represents a very high usage, and most domestic City Power users will save. system32 1 Quote
Bobster. Posted April 27, 2022 Posted April 27, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, Sc00bs said: @Bobster Not sure that COJ is ever going to get it right to implement a R200 network connection fee on prepaid. They are doing their best to get Soweto residents to start paying for electricity and I don't think that a R200 connection fee would be very popular. The last proposal was that users in low income areas could have that fee waived if they had a 20A main breaker installed. This was coupled with a below Eskom %, increase on the first 350 kw/h in a month for all users. This was to encourage frugality. For whatever reason, the proposals were dropped and everybody got a 15% increase per kw/h. Non payment is hardly an issue here. Folks who don't pay are not looking at the tariffs. Edited April 27, 2022 by Bobster Quote
Sc00bs Posted April 27, 2022 Posted April 27, 2022 4 hours ago, Leshen said: Hey John. I’m also a direct Eskom customer and moved to prepaid and still pay a monthly service fee. Meter number: 04272680259 Amount: R376.40 Service Fee: R123.60 Units: 178.40 kWh Ref: 20220416/Nedbank/003452197635 Your prepaid electricity token: 0443-5459-1278-9333-1121 For help call Nedbank on 0800555111 This is when I purchased for R500. I am with City Power, not Eskom Eskom has different rate to City Power, haven't done the calculations on Eskom costs. Quote
Leshen Posted April 27, 2022 Posted April 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Sc00bs said: I am with City Power, not Eskom Eskom has different rate to City Power, haven't done the calculations on Eskom costs. Ah ok. So it doesn’t make a difference for Eskom customers. Just more of an inconvenience I would say Quote
Sc00bs Posted April 27, 2022 Posted April 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Leshen said: Ah ok. So it doesn’t make a difference for Eskom customers. Just more of an inconvenience I would say Agreed, has to make financial sense for it to be worthwhile or why bother. Quote
giggsie Posted May 14, 2022 Posted May 14, 2022 Just to provide some feedback on this topic. I have just returned from the COJ office in Roodepoort after enquiring about cost to convert to prepaid. Information provided by the agent who assisted me: Account must be in good standing and up to date There is a form that needs to be completed and submitted to begin the conversion process. City Power will then come to site to conduct and inspection and provide a quote for the conversions. If you have a Smart Meter then the cost to convert is R1 208. (This is a standard rate and the above quote is only applicable if there is no smart meter) The process takes between 14 and 90 days after the quote/fee is accepted and paid. Service fees and network charges are removed from the monthly invoice. The Agent Informed me that the entire section relating to electricity is removed from the invoice completely. I am sure the process of feeding the meter and paying down the post paid costs incurred will still apply as per Post by @Bobster For my situation where we are on single phase supply and a monthly average consumption of 660kwh that cost us +- R2000 this makes sense as out power cost will be reduced to around R1250. This is before any additional price increases. I hope this helps any one browsing the forum looking for answers. Bobster. and system32 1 1 Quote
domparry Posted September 29, 2022 Posted September 29, 2022 Thank you for this summary. It's really useful. I see there's a space for Electrical Contractor on the form. Did you have to fill this in? I don't have a contractor yet. Quote
Akash Posted April 20, 2023 Posted April 20, 2023 On 2022/09/29 at 5:19 PM, domparry said: Thank you for this summary. It's really useful. I see there's a space for Electrical Contractor on the form. Did you have to fill this in? I don't have a contractor yet. Hi, I'm also planning to apply for prepaid conversion, did you find out if "electrical contractor" details are necessary? Quote
domparry Posted April 24, 2023 Posted April 24, 2023 On 2023/04/20 at 4:27 AM, Akash said: Hi, I'm also planning to apply for prepaid conversion, did you find out if "electrical contractor" details are necessary? Hi there, I didn't fill it in, and I was notified that my application was approved without it. I still need to visit COJ to complete the process but their systems have been down. Quote
system32 Posted April 24, 2023 Posted April 24, 2023 (edited) PRO TIP: Take photos of the post paid meter reading before it gets changed. I did my conversion to CoJ prepaid in ~2010. In my excitement I misplaced the job card, had to rely on the photos to get the process completed. Seems the process is simpler today. Each metro & Eskom have different rules wrt fixed monthly connection/network/capacity/service fees, this makes it difficult to provide guidelines. I did my CoJ calculations in 2010, and every year since then, and pre-paid has been better than post-paid in CoJ. The 2022/2023 pre-paid trariff rates on CityPower website are incomplete and fail to mention DSM levy. A 6c/kWh Demand Side Management (DSM) Levy will be charged above 500 kWh usage per month. When asking questions, please state which metro you in. Edited April 24, 2023 by system32 Quote
Raiden2912 Posted April 28, 2023 Posted April 28, 2023 (edited) So I got the form to move to prepaid this morning, would have started the process today if the systems were online (story of our lives in SA) so the consultant also mentioned that COJ is advising that more customers move to prepaid. Secondly on the form they have a section where it asks if you want to be connected to prepaid and another section that asks if you want to be connected and have Solar PV, i’m quite hesitant ti give COJ any information on my solar system, not sure why they would ask that. Edited April 28, 2023 by Raiden2912 Quote
Raiden2912 Posted April 28, 2023 Posted April 28, 2023 If you’ve got a smart meter, which I have so the conversion to prepaid from post is a configuration on the meter and this is roughly R1300, that’s quite an expensive call out and labour charge for a config setting…… Quote
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