39 minutes ago, Mark said:

Great list Mart-Mari...

Stick with the solar... the right installer with change your outlook totally!!

Thank you Mark.

On 4/22/2016 at 8:54 AM, Chris Hobson said:

Welcome back Mart-Mari

The  client is not supposed to be the one making technical decisions. The client provides the specs of what he/she wants and the installer designs a system to suit the clients needs.

..... but the client does not know this. It is up to the installer to provide options/scenarios and guide the client. If the client plums for the cheapest option then fine, but at R150k plus this is definitely not a "cheapest option system". Is there an accredited Solar Installer Association? This one individual has done more damage to the industry than a bus load of Mikes and Silvers could restore confidence in clients. If the system you install needs no input from the client - fine but if the client needs to check on things and switch on an off various items etc client training is then required. I don't blame Mart-Mari for being as mad as a snake. 

What I tried to say is that we (DIY people) need to be careful of the advice given, as it could steer an uneducated person in the wrong direction. Misinterpreted information is often worse than no information at all. 

23 minutes ago, SilverNodashi said:

What I tried to say is that we (DIY people) need to be careful of the advice given, as it could steer an uneducated person in the wrong direction. Misinterpreted information is often worse than no information at all.

I agree completely. DIY people usually conduct their own studies and read ample literature on a topic before they attempt doing it themselves for themselves. Ironically the installer in my case knew less than a DIY person because he didn't have to live with the system himself.

2 hours ago, Mart-Mari said:

I agree completely. DIY people usually conduct their own studies and read ample literature on a topic before they attempt doing it themselves for themselves. Ironically the installer in my case knew less than a DIY person because he didn't have to live with the system himself.

Zigackly!

 

20 hours ago, KLEVA said:

Sorry for being away so long

Speaking of which... anyone seen TTT lately?

2 hours ago, plonkster said:

Speaking of which... anyone seen TTT lately?

I sent him some goodies in the post (not very exciting I may add) so his absence cannot be attributed to that - AWOL 3 dae in die samajoor's blikkas.  

2 hours ago, plonkster said:

Speaking of which... anyone seen TTT lately?

 

28 minutes ago, Chris Hobson said:

I sent him some goodies in the post (not very exciting I may add) so his absence cannot be attributed to that - AWOL 3 dae in die samajoor's blikkas.  

Ja waars die wetter 

On 22 April 2016 at 8:54 AM, Chris Hobson said:

This one individual has done more damage to the industry than a bus load of Mikes and Silvers could restore confidence in clients.

Unfortunately this is true. Not one of my friends or family members would even consider solar energy after witnessing the mess at my house for 10 months.
 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Mart-Mari said:

Unfortunately this is true. Not one of my friends or family members would even consider solar energy after witnessing the mess at my house for 10 months.
 

 

 

 

But seriously though... ask yourself if such a generalisation is even rational? I mean, I think here of the whole Penny Sparrow debacle (tread careful plonky... political stuff here), because that is sort of the reverse, or the other extreme. Here everyone (or at least everyone on social media) understood very well (or joined the bandwagon of those who do) that you cannot generalise  the behaviour of a few messy individuals to the average skin colour of the crowd, and they were right. What everyone forgot is that we're still stuck with the basic problem: that some individuals are truly messy and mess things up for all of us.

Here we have the reverse. We identified a truly problematic situation. Now I just wish that people will have the same aversion to generalisation, or if they don't, that they will at least join the bandwagon of those who do understand that. :-)

I mean... talk of social media. I have some Americans in in that virtual circle of friends. Some of them are extreme conservatives... and what really gets me about their way of reasoning, is how they will become climate-change deniers and solar-haters because of a supposed concern for employment issues (specifically, coal mining). Like astronomers can predict that there is an unseen planet nearby because of the way another visible body behaves, some beliefs tend to pull others into their gravitational field.

I'm just begging here that we don't let "solar is dangerous" become one of those things. Apologies for all this Sunday-morning philosophy :-)

3 minutes ago, plonkster said:

But seriously though... ask yourself if such a generalisation is even rational?

...What everyone forgot is that we're still stuck with the basic problem: that some individuals are truly messy and mess things up for all of us.
 

Indeed. Because I don't want to give you a psychology lecture and because this is not a psychology forum, I'll only comment on one  psychological term namely heuristics. Heuristics are rules which people use to make decisions. They are also called mental shortcuts that usually involve focusing on one aspect of a complex problem and ignoring all the others. This is part of human nature and yes, at times quite frustrating to witness.

Just now, Mart-Mari said:

They are also called mental shortcuts that usually involve focusing on one aspect of a complex problem and ignoring all the others.

Yup. I always say that stereotypes aren't completely baseless, they do come from somewhere, and they save so much time in summing up the situation! Of course, there are times you have to step back and inspect those stereotypes :-)

That BMW I mentioned previously? I sold that thing in anger. It was a relatively small piece of straw that broke the camel's back, but as you say... at that point I ignored all the other factors. Two hedgehog resistors* in the space of 4 months!? I don't CARE if it's only R1000 a pop, that the car is paid off, that it is nice to drive, etc... if I have to open up the footwell one more time and contort my back into a question mark to reach the damn thing I'm going to implode... so I sold the damn thing :-)

** hedgehog resistor, because it looks like one. Real name is final stage blower resistor. It's the fan speed control module for the climate control unit, and a known weak spot in that model (and every other one that has the same climate control, all the way from the Mini to the X5).

8 minutes ago, plonkster said:

Yup. I always say that stereotypes aren't completely baseless, they do come from somewhere, and they save so much time in summing up the situation! Of course, there are times you have to step back and inspect those stereotypes :-)

That BMW I mentioned previously? I sold that thing in anger. It was a relatively small piece of straw that broke the camel's back, but as you say... at that point I ignored all the other factors. Two hedgehog resistors* in the space of 4 months!? I don't CARE if it's only R1000 a pop, that the car is paid off, that it is nice to drive, etc... if I have to open up the footwell one more time and contort my back into a question mark to reach the damn thing I'm going to implode... so I sold the damn thing :-)

** hedgehog resistor, because it looks like one. Real name is final stage blower resistor. It's the fan speed control module for the climate control unit, and a known weak spot in that model (and every other one that has the same climate control, all the way from the Mini to the X5).

Absolutely. I would have done the same with the BMW. Jeez, two hedgehog resistors in four months! Glad you sold the damn thing. No more question mark scenes, thank you. 

He he, and here I grudgingly live with my 1900's (well the century is right) Merc that I spend at least a hour or two every weekend fixing some problem or other... At least R1k a month is spent on that thing (Averaged for last year costs of R15200, excluding my labour), but replacing it is out of the question... It was a new car for Me or WENCH, or food/medical aid/solar (would have cost all 3!)

Here it is. The last straw that sunk the BMW :-) Kept it to remind me not to buy old German luxury vehicles :-)

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

58 minutes ago, KLEVA said:

Averaged for last year costs of R15200, excluding my labour

It gets interesting when you work out all the costs.

Things to account for:

1. Interest (if still on hire purchase)
2. Insurance (cheaper car, cheaper insurance)
3. Fuel
4. Maintenance (including services, breakages, tyres)
5. Devaluation
6. Opportunity cost (money you lose because it is tied up in a car instead of invested in another interest bearing "vehicle")

 

Using that list, I calculated at one point that a ten-year old Toyota Tazz really costs you around R20 000 a year. The 2007 Corolla I drive is around R35 000 a year. The BMW was a tad over 40k back in the day...

 

So @KLEVA, there is something to be said for driving an old car. When it becomes worth so little that devaluation effectively shrinks to zero, it is paid off, it barely makes sense to insure (except for 3rd party, 3rd party is essential!) and you can do all the maintenance yourself.

13 minutes ago, plonkster said:

Here it is. The last straw that sunk the BMW :-) Kept it to remind me not to buy old German luxury vehicles :-)

You are a strong camel but that was the last straw.

On 4/23/2016 at 4:52 PM, plonkster said:

Speaking of which... anyone seen TTT lately?

I am BAAACK!!!

Was on this trip, running all over the top deck checking the boat handling the seas, WAS AWESOME!!! 

Stayed from Monday till this morning for free on board in Pe harbour, HOPING to get back via the ship. Had to take the bus, free, back to CPT as the ship cannot come to Cpt yet due rough seas coming in and the harbour entrance giving it but 20m per side grace in case of a misjudgment. So no go.

And o yes, at the time this 15m wave hit the ship head on, from +-25kmh to zero in 2 seconds, I went and checked the engines, electrical motors nogal, powered by groot diesel electric motors, to watch the cavitation. Sjoe, this bootjie can take it hoor!!!

 

Mart-Mari ... sorry to hear about your misfortunes. Moses ek is sommer nou goed die dinges in!

Three things:
1) Do NOT do business with a person because they are or say they are or are religious. Assuming all such people are decent, is making an Ass of U and Me, as they say.
2) Do NOT assume a woman can be BS'ed. She WILL take you down eventually.
3) If my WIFE feels worried and / or scared of my system, then I did it wrong ... and I am not referring to fuses used as disconnecting devices that will spark the dinges when pulled under load. That was just #($%&*% stupid from the installer.

As per Plonkster, reading about the installer being a Dominee and you trusting him because of that ... ai tog.

Mart-Mari, spec your needs here, let us do the paperwork with you, then the sums and the let members here supply and install for you WHEN you are ready again.

Keep it close and personal as they say - and there are probably a Axpert or two for sale here to keep costs down. 

11 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

As per Plonkster, reading about the installer being a Dominee and you trusting him because of that ... ai tog.

I get upset about this because this is another area of my life I am fairly serious about. Excuse this bit of testimony right here in the middle (in my experience trade people and farmers tend to be more religious because they are closer to "creation" if you will, but such disclaimers is required on the internet these days), but during my university training there came a time when I had to decide, and so I treated it like most other things in life: I researched the crap out of it, and came back convinced.

That's how I got into philosophy (in addition to all my other hobbies). :-)

In any case, as far back as the second century, a satirist named Lucian of Somosata wrote a play in which the main character took advantage of the good nature of religious people. So this practice is LITERALLY as old as the religion in question itself. So take heart... it is not indicative of anything.

12 hours ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

Mart-Mari ... sorry to hear about your misfortunes. Moses ek is sommer nou goed die dinges in!

Three things:
1) Do NOT do business with a person because they are or say they are or are religious. Assuming all such people are decent, is making an Ass of U and Me, as they say.
2) Do NOT assume a woman can be BS'ed. She WILL take you down eventually.
3) If my WIFE feels worried and / or scared of my system, then I did it wrong ... and I am not referring to fuses used as disconnecting devices that will spark the dinges when pulled under load. That was just #($%&*% stupid from the installer.

As per Plonkster, reading about the installer being a Dominee and you trusting him because of that ... ai tog.

Mart-Mari, spec your needs here, let us do the paperwork with you, then the sums and the let members here supply and install for you WHEN you are ready again.

Keep it close and personal as they say - and there are probably a Axpert or two for sale here to keep costs down. 

Hi TTT, thank you for being sorry about my misfortunes. Moses, ek is ook goed die dinges in.

1) I did not do business with him only because he is a dominee. I did business with him because I believed what he said to me. The fact that he is actually an active dominee as well, gave me an additional sense of at least probable ethical behaviour on his part.

2) Brilliant.

3) Absolutely yes.

Thank you for the invite to spec my needs here. WHEN I am ready I shall certainly come here first, make no mistake. At least you guys talk sense.  

42 minutes ago, plonkster said:

So take heart... it is not indicative of anything.

Indeed.

8 hours ago, Mart-Mari said:

At least you guys talk sense.  

Sjoe now that's high praise. Mart Marie you obviously did not read the thread that started on solar and ended with motor cars. Mind you Plonky managed to get motor cars and hedgehog resistors muscled in on your thread.

I can absolutely derail any conversation.

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11 hours ago, Chris Hobson said:

Mart Marie you obviously did not read the thread that started on solar and ended with motor cars.

Yeah, but all of it made sense. Life is not only about solar energy.