April 20, 201610 yr Just now, plonkster said: I'd like to see the 42 mistakes... :-) I have a complete list of all the mistakes. Four independent experts compiled the list. Some were technical mistakes and others were regulations that were totally ignored.
April 20, 201610 yr 13 minutes ago, Mart-Mari said: I have a complete list of all the mistakes. Four independent experts compiled the list. Some were technical mistakes and others were regulations that were totally ignored. Yes please upload so that we can see. I'm sure here on the forum you will be able to get an installer that can do the system for you like it should
April 20, 201610 yr 42, WOW, I'd like to take a few guesses, lets see uh inappropriate cable thickness from batteries to inverter insufficient or lacking fuse protection from batteries to inverter lack of battery housing or fixture no battery isolation mixing of different age batteries classifying royal calcium batteries as "Deep Cycle" hehe using AC switch gear on DC components lack of ac switch gear insufficient or lacking panel fusing insufficient or lacking lightning protection insufficient or lacking surge protection inappropriate grounding incorrect panel wire type incorrect panel wire thickness incorrect or lacking isolation for panels lacking or incorrect earth leakage detection lacking or missing signage and warnings missing pilot lights incorrect panel string sizing incorrect panel facing loose wires not secured mixing panels with different facing in a string tying battery midpoints without balancing. no use of glands and other insulation protection (ehm,, running out of ideas now) poor panel mounting? incorrect inverter setup....eh ok im out.... 42 is a lot of mistakes to make, Would like to see what they were.
April 20, 201610 yr 1. The PV connected to the inverters are not correct as only one DC combiner board is present. Two would be required for a double inverter installation as the solar connection between inverters needs to be completely separate. 2. The Royal batteries are not covered and not at all in accordance with the standards. 3. The battery bank connections are wrong. Each bank should be connected in parallel to the fuse disconnector. 4. The battery bank should be enclosed to prevent any accidental contact with the terminals. 5. The inverters should each have at least a 50Amp circuit breaker to each of the individual inverters as per the installation manual and not only one as in this case. 6. The positive battery cables and the negative battery cables are not of the same size and should be the same size. 7. The installer altered the originally supplied system and did not at all follow the proper parallel installation guidelines as prescribed by the manufacturer of the inverters. 8. The supplier cannot honour any warranty claim and or responsibility for the installation. 9. The installation is totally unsafe to operate with visible sparks and would require a detailed inspection on site to determine everything that needs to be rectified in order for the system to operate. 10. The installer could not provide the calculations. 11. The installer could not indicate what the kWp requirement of the house was. 12. The installer could not supply the specifications and design criteria. 13. The design does not supply an off grid system as agreed upon per contract between the client and the installer. 14. The installer was informed that the solar panels only provide for 4kW and that he sized the inverters for 10kW and the battery bank for 303Ah, the panels was also installed in such way that its impacted by shade in the morning and shade in the afternoon. 15. The installer could not provide any calculations stating the correct size of system required to comply to the agreement – although the installer confirmed he was provided with the all the smart meter accounts. 16. The installer mentioned that there is a design for the inverter and AC/DC connection done by the supplier – this is done for the first 5KW inverter. It was confirmed that no design was done of the panels integration, the battery integration nor the distribution board integration. The installer did no design, nor update the design with the additional installation of the 4 x PV panels, 1 x 5KW inverter and additional batteries. The design was also not signed off and approved. 17. Evaluation of the design in relation to the standards, supplier requirements, municipality regulations, NERSA, ECSA and SANS standards was not done. 18. The installer was responsible for the system design but could not supply a design. The design was supposed to be done in the first place and it should have been correct and in accordance with all regulations and standards. The design was supposed to be registered with the municipality. None of these were done. Due to all the faults, there is serious concern about the system design. 19. The system is not at all functioning in accordance with the contractual conditions. 20. There are big visible sparks coming out of the battery charger switches that is a major concern and fire hazzard. 21. The design is not at all correctly integrated in the distribution box. 22. Insurance does not cover the house in case of fire, the system is placing the people and the house at very high risk and because of the wrong installation. 23. The installer wanted to switch the system off at the main distribution board and switch the power over to Eskom but it was not approved due to the fact that no proof of competency could be presented. 24. In relation to the Consumer Protection Act he as the service provider remains responsible and accountable to inform the client correctly, of which he failed and in fact misled the client. 25. The installer had at no stage informed the client verbally or in writing what the system can do and cannot do but insisted upon payment accordingly. 26. The installer was requested to invite the suppliers of the components to come and verify whether the items are connected correctly in accordance with their requirements and whether the guarantees are valid. This did not happen. 27. The installer was informed that we will have to inform the suppliers of this installation and our concern that it was not done correctly and that no COC was issued. This did not happen. 28. The installer was further informed that he has not handed over the system to the client, because there is not COC or hand over certificate and that the guarantee period is moving out – The installer is responsible to extend the guarantees accordingly. This did not happen. 29. The installer was informed that the supplier and the other suppliers need to be informed about this installation and that he is suggesting that the supplier is responsible for the design, even if the installer is responsible in accordance with the contract. 30. The installer did not inform the supplier of the additional items added to the system, nor invited them to witness the system. 31. The installer did not ensure the issuing of a COC for ten months and the installer is placing the client, her family and the house at high risk. 32. The installer said he has insurance, but that he needs to increase it after the mediator informed him that it’s not nearly enough. 33. The installer was informed that in accordance with the regulation and OSH Act that any person who changes another person’s distribution board and electrical reticulation needs to issue a COC, confirming that the changes were done correctly – The installer was responsible for this and failed to do so. 34. The installer was informed that the batteries cannot be open and that there are no labels indicated on the cables. 35. The second electrician is as responsible for the wrong installation as the installer, as he brought another person who was the second electrician that inspected the system and made more changes to the system. 36. The second electrician also failed to mention any concerns to be corrected and also did not get the client to sign off any inspections. He also left uncovered holes and did 'n sloppy job. 37. The installer failed to register the client and obtain the necessary certification. 38. The installer failed to hand over the complete data packs to the client and kept them to himself. 39. The installer failed to train the client to operate the system. 40. The installer failed to inform the client how to maintain the system and whom to contact in case of any problems but still gave a 5 year guarantee on the PV system and 2 years on the batteries. 41. The installer failed to ensure that a handover of the system was signed by the client and therefore the system was never handed over and is still fully responsible for everything. 42. The supplier was never invited to visit the site after two separate installations with two inverters were made and after the installer received many complaints from the client.
April 20, 201610 yr 2 hours ago, Weasel said: 42, WOW, I'd like to take a few guesses, lets see uh inappropriate cable thickness from batteries to inverter insufficient or lacking fuse protection from batteries to inverter lack of battery housing or fixture no battery isolation mixing of different age batteries classifying royal calcium batteries as "Deep Cycle" hehe using AC switch gear on DC components lack of ac switch gear insufficient or lacking panel fusing insufficient or lacking lightning protection insufficient or lacking surge protection inappropriate grounding incorrect panel wire type incorrect panel wire thickness incorrect or lacking isolation for panels lacking or incorrect earth leakage detection lacking or missing signage and warnings missing pilot lights incorrect panel string sizing incorrect panel facing loose wires not secured mixing panels with different facing in a string tying battery midpoints without balancing. no use of glands and other insulation protection (ehm,, running out of ideas now) poor panel mounting? incorrect inverter setup....eh ok im out.... 42 is a lot of mistakes to make, Would like to see what they were. Woah dude, not bad! Almost spot-on in every case :-) That's a good list. I'm guilty of signage issues myself ... I rectified the earth leakage and pilot light issues last year.
April 20, 201610 yr Maybe it would be a good idea for the forum members to compile a complete list and make it a sticky, if there's not something like that already. Something for new DIY'ers to have a checklist without having to dig through pages and pages. Could even add some good practices and tips and so on. But here there are many contractual issues and a client can not be expected to know and learn all of the system in detail. As per the points listed there was no handover and no instruction on system usage, capabilities and limitations, that's a recipe for disaster IMO. And o my word different sized battery cables? that alone tells me it was sloppy.
April 20, 201610 yr 4 minutes ago, Weasel said: Maybe it would be a good idea for the forum members to compile a complete list and make it a sticky, if there's not something like that already. Something for new DIY'ers to have a checklist without having to dig through pages and pages. Could even add some good practices and tips and so on. But here there are many contractual issues and a client can not be expected to know and learn all of the system in detail. As per the points listed there was no handover and no instruction on system usage, capabilities and limitations, that's a recipe for disaster IMO. And o my word different sized battery cables? that alone tells me it was sloppy. Weasel, the biggest disappointment is when one realises that the installer doesn't know what he is doing and the money is gone. R157 495.00 is not a small amount. Then the unpleasant journey starts in search for people to establish what all the problems are. It was extremely unpleasant to stand in front of screaming inverters in a dark garage, not knowing what to do. I am actually grateful to be back on Eskom. You have an excellent idea to get members to compile a complete list with technical points and general good practices.
April 20, 201610 yr So Mart-Mari are you not the person who had a article done about going Solar ? So What was the problem with the system in the end. I looks more that they did not do all the safety stuff. That would not make the system not work.
April 20, 201610 yr 19 minutes ago, jdp said: So Mart-Mari are you not the person who had a article done about going Solar ? So What was the problem with the system in the end. I looks more that they did not do all the safety stuff. That would not make the system not work. 1) The news team of Beeld contacted me three weeks after I have had my system installed in June 2015. They wrote about a few people who had new solar systems installed and they also wrote a piece about my system. 2) I am not a technical solar expert and therefore cannot supply you with more technical details than I have already supplied. 3) I was contractually entitled to an off grid system but only received a mediocre sort of back up system that stopped working at any given time. My intention was to share my disappointed here but also to share valuable information with other members. I hope it meant something to someone. Seeing that my solar system has been removed I think it appropriate to bid you all a farewell. May you all have more positive experiences than I did. Have a really happy solar journey!
April 20, 201610 yr On 6/21/2015 at 6:09 PM, Chris Hobson said: Firstly I wan to thank Mart-mari for the information that she had posted. I also need some advise on this topic. I have a three phase installation with 3 x 4 Kilowatt Axpert inverters (in total 12 Kilowatt), but only use max +-5 kilowatt at any point in time over the three phases combined. I have 18 x 310 watt Yingli solar panels (total 5580Watt). I have done the installation myself as I have an electrical / electronic background, and have taken great care to comply to all Standards and regulations. I have also a COC certificate from a electrician that came and did inspection of everything after I have done the installation, and the electrician did all the connections necessary in the three phase DB board, ( i only did the Solar panel connection, battery connections and Inverter connections). Therefore I can say that almost all of the faults that Mart-Mari indicated is considered in my installation and as per requirements. However the one point that concern me is the point 1 in her list, that " solar connection between inverters must be completely seperate". Does this mean that each inverter must have it own solar panels connected to it, and that you can not share the panels across all three inverters. I have a connector box on the top of roof with the necessary fuses and surge protection, based on how I stringed the panels in series and then in parallel I have three cables coming into the connector box at 25,59 amps each. The fuses that I have used in the connector box is 30 amps. After the strings go through the fuses, it is bused together to combine all the strings in parallel to have 76.77 amps. I then have three separate 50 amp DC circuit breakers feeding each (of the three) inverter so that I can disconnect the solar power to any one (or all three inverters) should I need to. My question is this. If I have 76.77 amps connected across all three the 50 amp DC circuit breakers, and each inverter draw from the 76.77 amps what it needs, is this correct or do I need to have seperate solar panels for each inverter.
April 21, 201610 yr Hi Sbbs. So just to clarify. You do not have a string of panels per Inverter? If so how is you system working properly. Those MPPT controllers are working overtime.
April 21, 201610 yr 10 hours ago, Mart-Mari said: 1) The news team of Beeld contacted me three weeks after I have had my system installed in June 2015. They wrote about a few people who had new solar systems installed and they also wrote a piece about my system. 2) I am not a technical solar expert and therefore cannot supply you with more technical details than I have already supplied. 3) I was contractually entitled to an off grid system but only received a mediocre sort of back up system that stopped working at any given time. My intention was to share my disappointed here but also to share valuable information with other members. I hope it meant something to someone. Seeing that my solar system has been removed I think it appropriate to bid you all a farewell. May you all have more positive experiences than I did. Have a really happy solar journey! Hi Mart-Mari. If you read this. When you say you had a bad experiance what did the system do or not do? Dit it trip, did it beep all the time? Regards
April 21, 201610 yr 23 minutes ago, jdp said: Hi Mart-Mari. If you read this. When you say you had a bad experiance what did the system do or not do? Dit it trip, did it beep all the time? Regards 1) The system tripped regularly. I was not trained what to do when this happened and the installer lives too far to help. 2) Alarms went off at any given time and for no reason. I did not know what to do when this happened. 3) Sparks came out of the battery charger switches. Black burn marks were visible around the sparks. It was expected of me to push these switches up and down and to cope with the sparks and burning smell. 4) When the system tripped, it did not switch over to Eskom - in other words the BYPASS function did not work. 5) There was a weird smell in my garage that disappeared after they removed the batteries. 6) The batteries could not carry the load for more than a couple of hours when Eskom was off. 7) I did not have a separate Eskom switch in order to switch over manually when the system stopped working. 8) The system caused tension in my family and we could not go on holiday because the system was way too unreliable.
April 21, 201610 yr Hi JDP. Thank you for replying. No I do not have a string of Panels per inverter. I have the total 5580 watts bridged before it goes into the 3 x 50 amp DC circuit breakers that feed each inverter. If one inverter draws more than 50 amps from the 76.77 provided before it does into the DC circuit breaker, then the Dc circuit breaker should trip. Currently the inverters is working fine, but If this is wrong then please inform me so that I can rectify before I get permanent damage to the inverters on the long run. What I have observed is that each inverter only draw the required power from the 5580 watts that it needs for the specific load per phase at the point in time. For example, if one inverter draws 3500 watts beacuase the washing machine AND a few other appliances are drawing power, then the other two phases will have only 2000 watts between them. Only if the total load between all three phases exceed the 5580 watts (or what is supplied by solar panels at the time based on cloud conditions), will the inverter switch to battery, or switch to utility if batteries are to low. If this is wrong then my next question would be, if I split the solar panels that each inverter has it's own string of panels, that would mean that each inverter will only have 1860 watts connected to it. So if one phase draws more than 1860 watts then will it start to use the batteries, or switch to utility if batteries are to low? This will mean more cycles out of the batteries, and more running time on utility ( that does not justify savings).
April 21, 201610 yr Sorry to hear of your bad experience. Correct system sizing and instruction was needed. This is the exact thing that causes the negative perception around solar ---- fly by nights. did this " installer" have any certification / training prior to your install, or were you his first?
April 21, 201610 yr 29 minutes ago, SBBS said: Hi JDP. Thank you for replying. No I do not have a string of Panels per inverter. I have the total 5580 watts bridged before it goes into the 3 x 50 amp DC circuit breakers that feed each inverter. If one inverter draws more than 50 amps from the 76.77 provided before it does into the DC circuit breaker, then the Dc circuit breaker should trip. Currently the inverters is working fine, but If this is wrong then please inform me so that I can rectify before I get permanent damage to the inverters on the long run. What I have observed is that each inverter only draw the required power from the 5580 watts that it needs for the specific load per phase at the point in time. For example, if one inverter draws 3500 watts beacuase the washing machine AND a few other appliances are drawing power, then the other two phases will have only 2000 watts between them. Only if the total load between all three phases exceed the 5580 watts (or what is supplied by solar panels at the time based on cloud conditions), will the inverter switch to battery, or switch to utility if batteries are to low. If this is wrong then my next question would be, if I split the solar panels that each inverter has it's own string of panels, that would mean that each inverter will only have 1860 watts connected to it. So if one phase draws more than 1860 watts then will it start to use the batteries, or switch to utility if batteries are to low? This will mean more cycles out of the batteries, and more running time on utility ( that does not justify savings). Do you get one inverter to actually draw more than 3000W from the PV at any stage as this is the maximum PV the manual suggests per inverter. (just for interest sake) I do see the logic in how you run things but as JDP stated I don't know how those 3 MPPT's are having to fight to control the array
April 21, 201610 yr 20 minutes ago, SBBS said: No I do not have a string of Panels per inverter. I have the total 5580 watts bridged before it goes into the 3 x 50 amp DC circuit breakers that feed each inverter. If this is wrong then my next question would be, if I split the solar panels that each inverter has it's own string of panels, that would mean that each inverter will only have 1860 watts connected to it. So if one phase draws more than 1860 watts then will it start to use the batteries, or switch to utility if batteries are to low? This will mean more cycles out of the batteries, and more running time on utility ( that does not justify savings). Yes, your installation regarding the solar panels is incorrect. Panels are not to be shared between inverters - each inverter must have its own set of panels connected to that single inverter only. By connecting the current panels in the correct way (1860Wp per inverter) you will most probably have more switch overs to grid, since the Axpert inverters are not true hybrids capable of combining loads. If you had something like the infini 10KW 3 phase inverter it would have used the PV panels optimally and combined grid and PV to supply loads bigger than the available PV, but unfortunately you already have the Axpert inverters. To prevent more grid usage / battery cycling, you basically have two options: Add more PV panels - up to 3KW per inverter Replace the Axpert inverters with a 10KW 3 phase infini (or similar) inverter
April 21, 201610 yr 45 minutes ago, Mart-Mari said: 3) Sparks came out of the battery charger switches. Black burn marks were visible around the sparks. It was expected of me to push these switches up and down and to cope with the sparks and burning smell. I'm curious to know what these battery charger switches were - the Axperts were supposed to handle battery charging.
April 21, 201610 yr 13 hours ago, Weasel said: Maybe it would be a good idea for the forum members to compile a complete list and make it a sticky. Could even add some good practices and tips and so on. Great idea.
April 21, 201610 yr 15 hours ago, Mart-Mari said: 1. The PV connected to the inverters are not correct as only one DC combiner board is present. Two would be required for a double inverter installation as the solar connection between inverters needs to be completely separate. 2. The Royal batteries are not covered and not at all in accordance with the standards. 3. The battery bank connections are wrong. Each bank should be connected in parallel to the fuse disconnector. 4. The battery bank should be enclosed to prevent any accidental contact with the terminals. 5. The inverters should each have at least a 50Amp circuit breaker to each of the individual inverters as per the installation manual and not only one as in this case. 6. The positive battery cables and the negative battery cables are not of the same size and should be the same size. 7. The installer altered the originally supplied system and did not at all follow the proper parallel installation guidelines as prescribed by the manufacturer of the inverters. 8. The supplier cannot honour any warranty claim and or responsibility for the installation. 9. The installation is totally unsafe to operate with visible sparks and would require a detailed inspection on site to determine everything that needs to be rectified in order for the system to operate. 10. The installer could not provide the calculations. 11. The installer could not indicate what the kWp requirement of the house was. 12. The installer could not supply the specifications and design criteria. 13. The design does not supply an off grid system as agreed upon per contract between the client and the installer. 14. The installer was informed that the solar panels only provide for 4kW and that he sized the inverters for 10kW and the battery bank for 303Ah, the panels was also installed in such way that its impacted by shade in the morning and shade in the afternoon. 15. The installer could not provide any calculations stating the correct size of system required to comply to the agreement – although the installer confirmed he was provided with the all the smart meter accounts. 16. The installer mentioned that there is a design for the inverter and AC/DC connection done by the supplier – this is done for the first 5KW inverter. It was confirmed that no design was done of the panels integration, the battery integration nor the distribution board integration. The installer did no design, nor update the design with the additional installation of the 4 x PV panels, 1 x 5KW inverter and additional batteries. The design was also not signed off and approved. 17. Evaluation of the design in relation to the standards, supplier requirements, municipality regulations, NERSA, ECSA and SANS standards was not done. 18. The installer was responsible for the system design but could not supply a design. The design was supposed to be done in the first place and it should have been correct and in accordance with all regulations and standards. The design was supposed to be registered with the municipality. None of these were done. Due to all the faults, there is serious concern about the system design. 19. The system is not at all functioning in accordance with the contractual conditions. 20. There are big visible sparks coming out of the battery charger switches that is a major concern and fire hazzard. 21. The design is not at all correctly integrated in the distribution box. 22. Insurance does not cover the house in case of fire, the system is placing the people and the house at very high risk and because of the wrong installation. 23. The installer wanted to switch the system off at the main distribution board and switch the power over to Eskom but it was not approved due to the fact that no proof of competency could be presented. 24. In relation to the Consumer Protection Act he as the service provider remains responsible and accountable to inform the client correctly, of which he failed and in fact misled the client. 25. The installer had at no stage informed the client verbally or in writing what the system can do and cannot do but insisted upon payment accordingly. 26. The installer was requested to invite the suppliers of the components to come and verify whether the items are connected correctly in accordance with their requirements and whether the guarantees are valid. This did not happen. 27. The installer was informed that we will have to inform the suppliers of this installation and our concern that it was not done correctly and that no COC was issued. This did not happen. 28. The installer was further informed that he has not handed over the system to the client, because there is not COC or hand over certificate and that the guarantee period is moving out – The installer is responsible to extend the guarantees accordingly. This did not happen. 29. The installer was informed that the supplier and the other suppliers need to be informed about this installation and that he is suggesting that the supplier is responsible for the design, even if the installer is responsible in accordance with the contract. 30. The installer did not inform the supplier of the additional items added to the system, nor invited them to witness the system. 31. The installer did not ensure the issuing of a COC for ten months and the installer is placing the client, her family and the house at high risk. 32. The installer said he has insurance, but that he needs to increase it after the mediator informed him that it’s not nearly enough. 33. The installer was informed that in accordance with the regulation and OSH Act that any person who changes another person’s distribution board and electrical reticulation needs to issue a COC, confirming that the changes were done correctly – The installer was responsible for this and failed to do so. 34. The installer was informed that the batteries cannot be open and that there are no labels indicated on the cables. 35. The second electrician is as responsible for the wrong installation as the installer, as he brought another person who was the second electrician that inspected the system and made more changes to the system. 36. The second electrician also failed to mention any concerns to be corrected and also did not get the client to sign off any inspections. He also left uncovered holes and did 'n sloppy job. 37. The installer failed to register the client and obtain the necessary certification. 38. The installer failed to hand over the complete data packs to the client and kept them to himself. 39. The installer failed to train the client to operate the system. 40. The installer failed to inform the client how to maintain the system and whom to contact in case of any problems but still gave a 5 year guarantee on the PV system and 2 years on the batteries. 41. The installer failed to ensure that a handover of the system was signed by the client and therefore the system was never handed over and is still fully responsible for everything. 42. The supplier was never invited to visit the site after two separate installations with two inverters were made and after the installer received many complaints from the client. Just my 2c: Just look at the advice given on this forum and many other DIY / self learn type forums, and you'll see why installation like this even take place. Most of the technical mistakes listed are "simple mistakes", but probably stem from bad advice given by people who think they know what they're talking about. That, and the fact that the general population is too price sensitive to understand that cheaper components, especially batteries won't last as long as the more expensive items, yet often work our more economical. In this case a Royal battery was used - let's assume it's a 102Ah battery @ R1300 (perhaps even R1000 back then), and they probably used 8 of them so essentially the client paid R2600 for a "200Ah" battery that would last about 500 cycles We can beat around the bush all day long about these fly-by-night installers, but let's face it these guys exist due to a demand in the market (people not prepared to pay decent prices for the right equipment, or skilled installers / companies) as well as a lack of proper / correct advice and education. I also want to add: Some of the points listed above are more of a personal opinion than regulation. For example, using Royal batteries isn't against any regulation, it's purely just a low end piece of equipment and is generally more suited for stand-by use than off-grid use. The same goes I also think that whomever drew up this report went a little bit overboard, "just to get the job". These points raise some concerns: #10: How was the system designed? Did the client give any indication of what the load was like or how much draw is needed? Surely someone had to have an idea of what size inverter, how many panels and batteries are needed? #11 Same as above. In fact, both points are the same - just worded a bit differently. #14. Ok, some odd figures here. How did they get to 303Ah on the batteries? So, two banks of 150Ah (possibly Royal N150?) batteries then. A 4Kw PV array could deliver upto 20Kw per day. The battery bank could handle about 14,5Kw, so an additional battery bank could be added to store more energy. Was this discussed? Could the client afford it, or not? At 50% DOD this battery bank could effectively deliver upto 380W/h for 19hours. Did the client need more? Was it discussed? 10Kw worth of inverter power could either mean they wanted to be able to use upto 10Kw, from time to time, or the whole time. Sure they could have added more solar panels, but again, could the client afford the extra panels or did they say no, this is enough for now. #15 Same as questions #10, #11 and #12 #17 Would the client have been prepared to pay for all these extra evaluations? Somewhere, someone needs to be paid todo the work, and the installer could either have worked it into the product / installation prices as markup, or as a line item on the quote. #18 Same as above. Installations done for companies and corporate clients generally include these two points, but it cost money - which homeowners generally don't want to pay. #26 I'm not sure this is possible, at all. Why would any supplier hop in their car / on the plane for a quick, useless inspection, just cause some "independant researcher insist they should. Just imagine how quickly all product prices will skyrocket! When was the last time you asked Dion Wired or Makro to see if you installed your new microwave properly? #27 Same as above. Installations, and use of product has little todo with the supplier. The supplier is just that, a big company who import the stuff and sell to distributors / shops / installers, and ultimately the end user. The manufacturers supply manuals which clearly state how it's to be installed, used, and often cared for. And just about every product imaginable would have a downloadable manual available. #29 What, exactly are the suppliers' responsibility, or accountability in this regard? Nothing. They supplied the kit, and they would generally honor warranties as long as the installation was done according to spec. If not, it's not their responsibility, but the installers. His mistake, his loss. #30. Again, what does this have todo with the suppliers? #35 & #36 is the same #38 Sorry to be so blunt, but the "data packs" can be obtained from the supplier / manufacturer websites as well. #39 was training quoted for? If not, shame on the installer, but if it was quoted for, why was it rejected? Or is it safe to say that the system was too expensive already so anything additional could have cancelled the deal? #40 very, very few suppliers would bother visiting every client installation. Most suppliers import and sell goods, they are not engineers, electricians or installers. When last did you ask BMW to come over and see how you drive their car? Too many of the points listed above suggest the installation was done on too tight a budget, either due to lack of funds, or did the client not request quotes from other companies? I'm not taking sides of the installer, I don't know him at all, but something like this gives the industry a bad name. Imagine "the press" get hold of this article - how much more damage will their twisted version of the truth cause, and urge the general population to never use solar? The scene sketched out above is very common: A client wants a solar system but don't / can't pay for a properly specked and installed system. Instead, the cheapest quote is accepted and from thereon it spirals downward. Was the client informed by other companies / installer / suppliers that the system quoted for will under-perform? Would the client have been prepared to pay at least 60% more for a decent system, properly installed? The point is: If a client is not prepared to pay for the right solution, he can't expect the cheap solution to offer the same performance.
April 21, 201610 yr 54 minutes ago, viper_za said: Do you get one inverter to actually draw more than 3000W from the PV at any stage as this is the maximum PV the manual suggests per inverter is 3000W. (just for interest sake) I do see the logic in how you run things but as JDP stated I don't know how those 3 MPPT's are having to fight to control the array The MPPT's won't draw more current than what is can handle. On a nice sunny day he's loosing out on big potential. Ideally he should balance the panels over the MPPT charge controllers to get the most out of the system.
April 21, 201610 yr 1 minute ago, SilverNodashi said: The MPPT's won't draw more current than what is can handle. On a nice sunny day he's loosing out on big potential. Ideally he should balance the panels over the MPPT charge controllers to get the most out of the system. Yes but surely one phase might need more power and the others less. So one inverters MPPT would want to lower production (raise PV voltage) and the other phase needs more production and then tries to lower PV voltage to get into the optimum voltage range. Now you have the two in conflict
April 21, 201610 yr Just now, viper_za said: Yes but surely one phase might need more power and the others less. So one inverters MPPT would want to lower production (raise PV voltage) and the other phase needs more production and then tries to lower PV voltage to get into the optimum voltage range. Now you have the two in conflict which is why he should balance the panels out over the MPPT's.
April 21, 201610 yr 59 minutes ago, superdiy said: I'm curious to know what these battery charger switches were - the Axperts were supposed to handle battery charging. I don't think she has Axpert's installed. They keep referring to 5Kw and 10Kw so I'm guessing she has Microcare or other 5Kw inverters which doesn't have built-in MPPT chargers.
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