1 minute ago, Mart-Mari said:

Yes but on the other side, this was the reason why I trusted him and believed what he said to me.

Don't get me wrong, this almost irks me even more. Oh well... back to solar matters :-)

1 minute ago, Mart-Mari said:

See the burn mark in the battery charger switches on this pic. This is where is sparks came from. It scared the living daylight out of me each time I was told to operate these switches. 

Those are not battery charger switches but battery disconnect with DC fuses and  should not switched unless you are going to work on the system or there is an emergency. They would spark as you reconnect as there is a rapid current flow for a brief moment in time as the capacitors in the inverter draw current. Although alarming I would not describe it as "life-threatening". Depending on the location it could be a fire hazard.

2 minutes ago, plonkster said:

I have one of these as well. I also use it as an emergency isolator. It should not make sparks under normal operation, unless it is defective. You should only pull it under load in extreme circumstances. That burn mark looks more or less normal for such an emergency situation.

It is not a switch. It is a fuse holder. If you switch it under load, it will make a large spark.

I was told to pull it regularly and not in an emergency situation. Big sparks came from it every time I did it. Thank you, I never knew it was an emergency isolator.

2 minutes ago, Chris Hobson said:

Those are not battery charger switches but battery disconnect with DC fuses and  should not switched unless you are going to work on the system or there is an emergency. They would spark as you reconnect as there is a rapid current flow for a brief moment in time as the capacitors in the inverter draw current. Although alarming I would not describe it as "life-threatening". Depending on the location it could be a fire hazard.

Starting a fire and being stuck in a burning house at night is life threatening in my opinion.

If the batteries are in the garage?? I would expect a cement floor and the sparks should not cause harm. Plus you would be standing right there if you set the BMW alight.

 

2 minutes ago, Chris Hobson said:

standing right there if you set the BMW alight

Dude, some e46s would do that all on their own! There was an alarmingly high number of 318s of that era that set themselves alight. I know someone who had a 318 estate that caught fire on its own.

(electrical wiring to the fan is the culprit. Interestingly, Toyota has always been of the school of thought that fans should not run after the ignition has been turned off...)

2 minutes ago, plonkster said:

Dude, some e46s would do that all on their own!

Friday humour -- thanks swaer!

 

5 minutes ago, Chris Hobson said:

Friday humour -- thanks swaer!

 

I owned an e46. 320d. Man, that car was a treasure trove of "opportunities dressed in overalls".

Did it become a FRS (fierce releaser of smoke ala TTT)?

 

10 minutes ago, Chris Hobson said:

Did it become a FRS (fierce releaser of smoke ala TTT)?

 

It did, but it was quite controllable. It did what many Diesels does when you floor the loud pedal: It overfuels (usually limited to a few seconds) and this would cause a large cloud of black smoke to emanate from the exhaust. It was a wonderful weapon against tailgaters. Shift up... wait for the bastard to get closer... floor it... it had the additional quality of also leaving the visually impaired tailgater far behind when you did that.

The Diesel 'rolla also does this to some extent, but the smoke isn't as black. Rolling coal is one thing I miss about that old firestarter.

2 hours ago, Chris Hobson said:

If the batteries are in the garage?? I would expect a cement floor and the sparks should not cause harm. Plus you would be standing right there if you set the BMW alight.

 

Remember there were other faults as well. (No wonder the installer refused to hand over a COC.) A solar related electrician came to my house, inspected the DB board and other components and wrote the following. I'm sure you guys will understand exactly what he was saying here:

1.      There was no circuit to protect the solar system.

2.      3 wires instead of only 1.

3.      Fuses were burnt which indicated a loose connection.

4.      No circuit breaker from inverter to ensure that flow of energy is properly regulated and energy from inverter is directly from municipal electricity instead of having a circuit breaker built in after municipal output.

5.      Isolator did not work properly because system could not be switched off by means of isolator.

Mart-Mari  I not for one moment think your installation was done correctly and there are numerous deficiencies and omissions, the lack of  a CoC being a major warning sign. What has happened to you is unforgivable but I also get the idea that those writing the report(s) are milking it for all that its worth, It reminds me of a soccer player writhing on the ground after a foul is committed only to get up once the penalty is awarded. The fact you've been "taken" for a second time would indicate that this is not an isolated incident. I have no evidence but I presume one of the report writers then "fixed" your system. 

22 minutes ago, Chris Hobson said:

Mart-Mari  I not for one moment think your installation was done correctly and there are numerous deficiencies and omissions, the lack of  a CoC being a major warning sign. What has happened to you is unforgivable but I also get the idea that those writing the report(s) are milking it for all that its worth, It reminds me of a soccer player writhing on the ground after a foul is committed only to get up once the penalty is awarded. The fact you've been "taken" for a second time would indicate that this is not an isolated incident. I have no evidence but I presume one of the report writers then "fixed" your system.

Chris, I can see no reason for several independent experts from renowned solar companies to supply me with exaggerated reports. I can also not see why the supplier of the components (Rubicon) would exaggerate or "milk" faults. I have more than 10 emails in total that were written regarding the dysfunctional, unsafe system that was installed at my home. These people are complete strangers that had no reason to be dishonest or dramatic about the faults.

I had a contract with the installer to install an off grid system. I received a malfunctional, unsafe and substandard sort of back up system. No, the experts did not fix my system because they were not requested to fix it. I was also not willing to pay one more cent towards that specific system.

My lawyer asked the installer to pay my money back and to have the system removed. The installer did not argue about any point in the reports, my system was removed last week and then my money was paid back in full. End of story.

32 minutes ago, Mart-Mari said:

End of story.

To be honest, to add on what Chris said, I also read that report of 40+ problems thinking they sound rather a lot like my wife making a list of things that needs to be done. She breaks them down into subtasks and subtasks of subtasks... and then I'm usually like: Oh, so you need to visit two shops and buy ingredients to bake a cake. That's two things... (she's usually not impressed with my summation capabilities :-) ). In any case, of course nothing was wrong, but I still get the feeling that if you wrote down a list of actual components that needed replacement it would probably be a very short (though not necessarily cheap) list.

Then again, I completely understand that at some point you just want your money back. I think this was the right thing to do.

I would much prefer if the story ends with you having a better and properly installed system though. Come on.... join us! The cool aid is not too bad!

(all thoroughly meant in jest of course).

6 minutes ago, plonkster said:

... but I still get the feeling that if you wrote down a list of actual components that needed replacement it would probably be a very short (though not necessarily cheap) list.

...Come on.... join us! The cool aid is not too bad!

Quality is not about the amount of items on a shopping list in order to fix the broken parts. Quality is the standard of something as measured against other things of a similar kind or the degree of excellence of something.  

I'll only join if I can get one of these:

https://www.goodthingsguy.com/business/first-tesla-battery-installed-south-african-home/

Just now, Mart-Mari said:

Quality is not about the amount of items on a shopping list in order to fix the broken parts

Agreed, which is why I think you did the right thing to return it and start over... that is my hope, that you will start over :-)

6 minutes ago, plonkster said:

Agreed, which is why I think you did the right thing to return it and start over... that is my hope, that you will start over :-)

Maybe after I have completely recovered from this ordeal, yes.

3 minutes ago, Mart-Mari said:

Maybe after I have completely recovered from this ordeal, yes.

Bring your next quote here and we will dissect it for you 

1 minute ago, viper_za said:

Bring your next quote here and we will dissect it for you 

 I'll remember your dissection offer and as long as you are not a dominee, ok?

Just now, Mart-Mari said:

 I'll remember your dissection offer and as long as you are not a dominee, ok?

Lol you are safe

2 minutes ago, viper_za said:

Lol you are safe

Wow, 1 week away and I missed this awesome discussion/argument/beratement/enjoyment....

Everything I have read here, is exactly my situation and worse.The biggest mistake anyone/everyone makes (including those that think they know what they are doing) is underestimating the cost! Seriously, switching to solar is a HUGE capital outlay, and will almost always cost more than even your researched budget.

Second mistake, is thinking that a qualified electrician is qualified to install Solar. Sorry, despite how many schools/courses you have been on, DC is a vastly different animal to AC. Even worse is understanding the relationship between the two. If I put this is car terms: you cannot compare a F1 racing car to a Dakar 4x4 - The needs and specifications are completely different.

I qualified as a DC electrician with the "Post Office" back in 1652 when Jan arrived, and as a AC electrician in 2000, and even now I battle with the concepts between the two and my DC knowledge has been proven to be scary! In the "Pos", all I had to do was fill a few batteries and if a senior tech told me to replace a battery I did! Wonderful technical training, but I qualified!

Take your minimum budget that you have estimated (as a layman) and don't just double it, quadruple it if you want the job well done (NB: Nobody has the RIGHT setup, each install is custom to requirements, and if your installer doesn't know you well - almost personally, those requirements will not be met!)

Did I cover everything so far? Sorry for being away so long

46 minutes ago, KLEVA said:

Did I cover everything so far? Sorry for being away so long

I thought you had been abducted by aliens who said " Take us to your leader!" Out of embarrassment you never made it to Nkandla. The aliens sensed you were being furtive and kept you in a holding cell.

 

10 hours ago, KLEVA said:

...The biggest mistake anyone/everyone makes (including those that think they know what they are doing) is underestimating the cost!

Second mistake, is thinking that a qualified electrician is qualified to install Solar...

Hi KLEVA, I fully agree with you. You are absolutely right. May I add a few more tips from a client's point of view please?

1.      If one pays an installer to do the job, make sure the installer knows exactly what he is doing and don't believe all kinds of stories.

2.      Don't feed your installer lunches and coffees while they work at your house. Once you set this standard, they expect it every time they visit your house.

3.      Make sure your installer as an electrician that does not smoke dagga on your property especially just  before he climbs into your roof. He then becomes too high.

4.      Make sure your installer does not have an electrician that also wants to privately sell you plants while he has your attention.

5.      The installer must be able to supply you the specifications and design criteria.

6.      The installer must provide all his calculations.

7.      The installer must know what the kWp requirement of your house is.

8.      The installer must design the panels integration, the battery integration and the distribution board integration.

9.      When an additional installation is done, the installer must yet again have a design. He must follow the proper parallel installation guidelines as prescribed by the manufacturer of the inverters.

10.   The suppliers cannot honour any warranty claim and or responsibility for an incorrect installation.

11.   The design must be correctly integrated in the distribution box. A solar qualified electrician must do this. Make sure the installer has a fully qualified electrician.

12.   Insurance does not cover the house in case of possible fire, or if the system is placing the people and the house at risk because of an incorrect installation.

13.   The installer should invite suppliers to visit the site especially if he is not at all sure of what he is doing at your house.

Great list Mart-Mari...

Stick with the solar... the right installer with change your outlook totally!!