zs1ssm Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 Some say yes some say no ???? My setup are the following as per drawing. Now if I bond the neutral and the earth from the inverter and work hat to be done on the electrical box outside (eskom) then the earth back to the box will have a earth that can carry current due to the bonding---My inverter do not do the bonding as I tested the system---On eskom power the e/n there is no voltage but on inverter there is 84volt between e/n. Anyone please explain if I can bond earth/neutral at the inverter out and also the feedback from the bond to the electrical box outside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorp007 Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 15 minutes ago, zs1ssm said: Some say yes some say no ???? My setup are the following as per drawing. Now if I bond the neutral and the earth from the inverter and work hat to be done on the electrical box outside (eskom) then the earth back to the box will have a earth that can carry current due to the bonding---My inverter do not do the bonding as I tested the system---On eskom power the e/n there is no voltage but on inverter there is 84volt between e/n. Anyone please explain if I can bond earth/neutral at the inverter out and also the feedback from the bond to the electrical box outside The E/N bond is only done at the inverter wires and it can be a relay in a DB. It is essential that this bond is only in place when running from battery. It is thus not a permanent bond. Colin B, Nexuss, Virwat and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurard Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) Hi Scorp, Or anyone actually. I dont have a sunsynk and every post about neutral earth bonding has to do with islanding mode etc. I have the segen earth neutral bond box and all I need is a clear indication of which wire goes from where to which number or placement in the box. So N is bridged like pic Earth js connected like pic So do I: 1. connect inverter Live going to L and from L to house load? 2. Connect inverter Neutral to N and from N to house load neutral bar? 3. Where do I connect Mains L on the relay? 4. Where do I connect Mains N on the relay? 5. Connect mains earth to E? Mains L, N and G goes to inverter. Mains G goes to DB G bar and house load also connected DB has two N bars, one for only oven (not pulled from inverter), and one for all other loads, mains N goes to oven N bar and inverter. Edited June 16, 2023 by Eurard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerUser Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 1 hour ago, Eurard said: Hi Scorp, Or anyone actually. I dont have a sunsynk and every post about neutral earth bonding has to do with islanding mode etc. I have the segen earth neutral bond box and all I need is a clear indication of which wire goes from where to which number or placement in the box. So N is bridged like pic Earth js connected like pic So do I: 1. connect inverter Live going to L and from L to house load? 2. Connect inverter Neutral to N and from N to house load neutral bar? 3. Where do I connect Mains L on the relay? 4. Where do I connect Mains N on the relay? 5. Connect mains earth to E? Mains L, N and G goes to inverter. Mains G goes to DB G bar and house load also connected DB has two N bars, one for only oven (not pulled from inverter), and one for all other loads, mains N goes to oven N bar and inverter. There is a pervious thread on the forum explaining the Segen box. You just have to search for it. Scorp007 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurard Posted June 16, 2023 Share Posted June 16, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, PowerUser said: There is a pervious thread on the forum explaining the Segen box. You just have to search for it. I saw but it mentions moving the neutral to NO and then ln island mode, I dont have that. I tested terminals and with no power in the neutral and Ground as connected in the pic I posted has pass through current with multimeter. So Im just in the dark now! Edited June 16, 2023 by Eurard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurard Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) Anyone that can assist? Anyone with a normal inverter (not on grid inverter), that had done this? Edited June 17, 2023 by Eurard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritishRacingGreen Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Eurard said: Anyone that can assist? Anyone with a normal inverter (not on grid inverter), that had done this? Hi @Eurard, what inverter do have? As far as the Segen Box is concerned, please understand the following : The klippon terminals are configured for convenience. The inverter output L and N are connected on the top terminals. Earth is connected to E. The bottom terminals goes to your load, L, N and E. The reason why L is passed thru is purely for convenience if you are routing surfix cables. But apart from that theL plays no further role as far as bonding is concerned. Only the N and E. But if you are not routing cables but have free wiring, then its ok to leave out the L connection altogethet. Now the only thing left is your control wires for the relay. The wiring will depend on the inverter. If its a Sunsynk we configure the ATS240 output to control it. If its any other inverter that has no built in bonding, then the coil is merely energized from GRID L and N, BUT the polarity of the relay contact may be wrong so you need to shift the E wire accordingly. I will show you how to do that if we go this route. For so long, please remove the relay and send photo of relay type. Also remove the 2 wires going to baseboard and send photo of baseboard. Do you have multimeter? Edited June 17, 2023 by BritishRacingGreen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurard Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, BritishRacingGreen said: Hi @Eurard, what inverter do have? As far as the Segen Box is concerned, please understand the following : The klippon terminals are configured for convenience. The inverter output L and N are connected on the top terminals. Earth is connected to E. The bottom terminals goes to your load, L, N and E. The reason why L is passed thru is purely for convenience if you are routing surfix cables. But apart from that theL plays no further role as far as bonding is concerned. Only the N and E. But if you are not routing cables but have free wiring, then its ok to leave out the L connection altogethet. Now the only thing left is your control wires for the relay. The wiring will depend on the inverter. If its a Sunsynk we configure the ATS240 output to control it. If its any other inverter that has no built in bonding, then the coil is merely energized from and N, BUT the polarity of the relay contact may be wrong so you need to shift the E wire accordingly. I will show you how to do that if we go this route. For so long, please remove the relay and send photo of relay type. Hi Thanks! I have a sunmagic/firestar which I am also going to replace with an Axpert, so the same. See attached pic of relay/box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurard Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Clearer of relay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritishRacingGreen Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, Eurard said: Clearer of relay The relay front image is as clear as mud Eurard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurard Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 1 minute ago, BritishRacingGreen said: The relay front image is as clear as mud BritishRacingGreen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritishRacingGreen Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 9 minutes ago, Eurard said: Hi Thanks! I have a sunmagic/firestar which I am also going to replace with an Axpert, so the same. See attached pic of relay/box Ok, so this new Axpert you putting in, what is the model? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurard Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 1 minute ago, BritishRacingGreen said: Ok, so this new Axpert you putting in, what is the model? At the moment still undecided, probably the 8k new mx2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorp007 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, BritishRacingGreen said: The relay front image is as clear as mud When more detail like inverter make and model only the can one add to what will pick up the relay from 230V AC. We know it's not a Sunsynk or any of the Voltronics which does the N to E internally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorp007 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Just now, Eurard said: At the moment still undecided, probably the 8k new mx2 Now I would not look for the problem and install it and IF its a problem then solve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritishRacingGreen Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Eurard said: At the moment still undecided, probably the 8k new mx2 Then you will not need the box, it will have bonding built in. Let me ask, what is it you need to solve as we speak? The existing inverter? Edited June 17, 2023 by BritishRacingGreen Eurard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurard Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Just now, Scorp007 said: Now I would not look for the problem and install it and IF its a problem then solve it. I have ghosting. When on eskom ground to L as well as L to N has 230V same on output side. When eskom is off, N to G registers 82v and L to G 130 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurard Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 It would be a for now fix, when ... And only when I do get a new inverter will I take it out again, but currently it is a ways into the futur still as a new inverter comes with expansion on solar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurard Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 10 minutes ago, BritishRacingGreen said: Then you will not need the box, it will have bonding built in. Let me ask, what is it you need to solve as we speak? The existing inverter? Absolutely, I just want to fix it for now and current inverter. I have too many things that needs money, gas geyser, next week, etc, so with this inverter still working, I wont replace immediately. BritishRacingGreen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritishRacingGreen Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Eurard said: Absolutely, I just want to fix it for now and current inverter. I have too many things that needs money, gas geyser, next week, etc, so with this inverter still working, I wont replace immediately. Ok, thanks, do you have multimeter? If so does it have continuity test feature? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurard Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, BritishRacingGreen said: Ok, thanks, do you have multimeter? If so does it have continuity test feature? Yes I do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritishRacingGreen Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Eurard said: Yes I do Ok great. I assume that nothing is connected to the box. If it is, then disconnect incoming and outgoing cables. Then put your meter on continuity and check for continuity between N and E klippon terminals. If there is, then prove its going thru the relay by removing the relay and test for continuity again. You should now have no continuity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurard Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, BritishRacingGreen said: Ok great. I assume that nothing is connected to the box. If it is, then disconnect incoming and outgoing cables. Then put your meter on continuity and check for continuity between N and E klippon terminals. If there is, then prove its going thru the relay by removing the relay and test for continuity again. You should now have no continuity. Okay relay out no continuity, with relay in yes continuity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritishRacingGreen Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Eurard said: Okay relay out no continuity, with relay in yes continuity Absolutely spiffing, now for the more difficult part, we need to wire an L and N from the grid side to the A1 and A2 coil terminals of the relay. Note it is not the box L and N, its from the grid input. So you need to prepare this, keeping the relay removed. Edited June 17, 2023 by BritishRacingGreen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurard Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, BritishRacingGreen said: Absolutely spiffing, now for the more difficult part, we need to wire an L and N from the grid side to the A1 and A2 coil terminals of the relay. So you need to prepare this, keeping the relay removed. Okay done red wire on A2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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