19 minutes ago, Sc00bs said:

So, just wondering if there has been a consensus reached as to what is the correct way to establish the Earth/Neutral bond on a SS/DEYE inverter, or are we still in disagreement between hard bond vs a relay? 🙂 

My inverter was installed with a hard bond and wondering if I need to change it. 

Neutral ground is yet to be established 👀 I’ll see myself out 😂

9 hours ago, WestCoastUPS said:

I have installed a LuxPower SNA5000 on Friday and found a NEV of 82V.

I am beginning to wonder if there is an earthing problem on site which carries through to the inverter output. The earth wire shouldn't disappear during load shedding?

 

You need to do a loop impedance test on Ze( external to transformer) and then do a loop impedance test on Ze+Zs( total installation). 82v is far above allowed spesifications and needs to be shut down. If found that Ze is above 0.35ohms you need to inform the external supplier as there is a problem on the starpoint of the transformer feeding the property.

Edited July 3, 20232 yr by TaliaB

8 hours ago, Sc00bs said:

So, just wondering if there has been a consensus reached as to what is the correct way to establish the Earth/Neutral bond on a SS/DEYE inverter, or are we still in disagreement between hard bond vs a relay? 🙂 

My inverter was installed with a hard bond and wondering if I need to change it. 

All i can say again hard bond earth/neutral is illegal not allowed by Sans regulation so the installation could not have a COC. 

1 hour ago, TaliaB said:

All i can say again hard bond earth/neutral is illegal not allowed by Sans regulation so the installation could not have a COC. 

SANS 10142-1 : 7.12.3.1.3

Also asked BravoScan AIA for info on this, and stated that it MUST be permanently bonded.  

 

Edit: Leon (from BravoScan) just posted on this again

 

Edited July 3, 20232 yr by spotity
Typo

10 hours ago, Sc00bs said:

So, just wondering if there has been a consensus reached as to what is the correct way to establish the Earth/Neutral bond on a SS/DEYE inverter, or are we still in disagreement between hard bond vs a relay? 🙂 

My inverter was installed with a hard bond and wondering if I need to change it. 

As a non-professional layman, it looks to me like neither the relay/contactor nor the hard bond option is 100% compliant with regulations?  

Based on comments, it looks to me like I should be putting a hard bond in place every time I want to switch my inverter to "Island mode" and then removing it before I reconnect to the grid to be compliant with SANS?

lol @spotity , the only thing clear is that neither way is 100% compliant and that there is no agreement as to what the correct way to do this is. 

 

6 minutes ago, Sc00bs said:

lol @spotity , the only thing clear is that neither way is 100% compliant and that there is no agreement as to what the correct way to do this is. 

 

@Sc00bsI agree, its so all over the place in terms of opinions. I contacted BravoScan because they are one of the few independents that can refute a COC in South Africa thus hoping I would get the "correct" way of doing it. 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/664508601327065/posts/927931461651443/ The guys on the Sunsynk Facebook group are pretty adamant that the only way to do it is using a hard bond. 

5 minutes ago, Sc00bs said:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/664508601327065/posts/927931461651443/ The guys on the Sunsynk Facebook group are pretty adamant that the only way to do it is using a hard bond. 

Yup, thats where my screenshot above is from 😀

So if sans (as per comments above) need to have the E/N bond permanent, then what happens when you bypass back to eskom/utility?

Earth/neutral would effectively be bonded when using grid only with the bypass?
Is that not why the need for relay is there, to prevent this scenario?

Edited July 3, 20232 yr by WannabeSolarSparky

What about the inverters which have a relay internally doing the bond then... All illegal? Voltronics, tesla as well.. 

46 minutes ago, abd7 said:

What about the inverters which have a relay internally doing the bond then... All illegal? Voltronics, tesla as well.. 

Yes... according to Facebook 🤣

24 minutes ago, PowerUser said:

Yes... according to Facebook 🤣

And SANS and the AIA 😉 

I think the thing that's important here is the fact that islanding is not "normal" for grid tied inverters... Where as in South Africa we can have the grid disconnect up to 6 times a day due to load shedding. 

Edited July 3, 20232 yr by spotity

2 minutes ago, spotity said:

And SANS 😉 

That SANS snippet which you posted is not relevant to what is discussed in this thread. The paragraph refers to installations where the inverter is at a remote location and not by the point of entry. You have taken something completely out of it's context.

So PLEASE show us, according to which SANS standard, inverters which have a relay internally doing the bond are illegal? 🤔

This for the GW5048D-ES, but it's still as clear as mud. How does the Aus distribution grid differ from ours? Do they just not bond the N-E at the substations like is done here?

That looks very much like the sunsynk manual, someone is copying someone's homework 😂

2 hours ago, WannabeSolarSparky said:

So if sans (as per comments above) need to have the E/N bond permanent, then what happens when you bypass back to eskom/utility?

Earth/neutral would effectively be bonded when using grid only with the bypass?
Is that not why the need for relay is there, to prevent this scenario?

This wiring above is incorrect !!!
Have my electrician here now, he is wiring it up correctly then I will update the diagram.

1 hour ago, PowerUser said:

That SANS snippet which you posted is not relevant to what is discussed in this thread. The paragraph refers to installations where the inverter is at a remote location and not by the point of entry. You have taken something completely out of it's context.

So PLEASE show us, according to which SANS standard, inverters which have a relay internally doing the bond are illegal? 🤔

Just as a FYI - this is the information AIA provided when I asked, not my interpretation of anything.

In terms of inverters that bond internally I cannot comment - but I would presume they have a mechanism in place should the bond fail when islanding. In the case of Deye/Sunsynk - they have no way of knowing if the bond took place successfully... The discussion of this thread is permanent vs bonded, not "Inverters that bond internally".

Edited July 3, 20232 yr by spotity

Other Goodwe inverter. Looks like it has an internal relay that is disabled for the Aus/NZ/SA firmwares. 

Subscribing to this one. My Sunsynk installation also makes use of a permanent neutral bond. I asked my installer about it, and they insisted that it is the correct way of doing it.

Edited July 3, 20232 yr by DawieZA

1 hour ago, spotity said:

this is the information AIA provided

They provided you with information not relevant to the SunSynk bonding as well. That snippet refers to installations where the inverter is at a remote location and not by the point of entry.

Looks like I have started a very confusing post

The smart meters / pre-paid meters  dont they have reverse protection build in ??

2 hours ago, spotity said:

In terms of inverters that bond internally I cannot comment - but I would presume they have a mechanism in place should the bond fail when islanding.

@Coulomb without dragging you into this whole discussion, can you please just confirm for us, if the Voltronic inverters have a mechanism in place should the internal relay bond fails while islanding?

2 minutes ago, PowerUser said:

@Coulomb without dragging you into this whole discussion, can you please just confirm for us, if the Voltronic inverters have a mechanism in place should the internal relay bond fails while islanding?

Look forward to @Coulomb's reply. 

For Victron - Error Code 8 

 

 

Source:https://www.victronenergy.com/live/ve.bus:ve.bus_error_codes

'Om te meet is om te weet'  

If you measure potential between the N and E bars on both non-essentials and essentials whilst the grid is on, it confirms bonding (150mV)  As soon as grid falls away and islanding takes place, potential voltage between N bar(Essentials) and E, climbs from mV to 70-80V, thus indicating 'no bonding'.  . 

Deye installation manual indicates AC signal to external relay to achieve bonding in islanding mode.

I presume that, based on the measurements, that permanent bonding on essential side, at the inverter, would serve the same function as an intermittent bonding when in islanding mode.

Thus, permanent bonding, or using AC signal for relayed bonding in islanding mode, depends on the interpretation of the regulation.  Both will achieve the same purpose.