June 23, 20233 yr Hi I have a Growatt SPF 5000 ES. Spec states Max. PV Array Open Circuit Voltage as 450Vdc. I have ten 605W panels arriving end of July. Some installation sites in Australia mentions that you can overload your PV supply safely up to a maximum off 33%. So my inverter can take 5,98 max if I load the 4,5 with 33%? Any advice? LD
June 23, 20233 yr What are the panel specs. Open Circuit Voltage Max Power Voltage Short Circuit Current Max Power Current As with most inverters you should be looking primarily at the voltages and make 100% sure to not exceed the max voltage as in most cases that's what can do damage.
June 23, 20233 yr I have the same Inverter, albeit the original version with Firmwares 040 and 041 There have been two sneaky model updates since with different firmwares, but the model number never changed and the firmwares are not interchangeable, in fact, you cannot even parallel them unless they are the same version. The original version had an 18A max for the MPPT. With the last Firmware update that was increased to 22A. Not sure if these latest models are also base 18A or whether they come with 22A with their factory released Firmware. The max PV input is 6000W. With my Panel config I get around 255V under load max per string, at a clipped 22A that equates to ~5600W and I have only seen that once or twice in 2 years. Although the manual states 450V VoC max, the MPPT operating range is 120-430Vdc. The max voltage should not be exceeded. The MPPT can't clip excess voltage.
July 17, 20233 yr Author On 2023/06/23 at 3:41 PM, WannabeSolarSparky said: What are the panel specs. Open Circuit Voltage Max Power Voltage Short Circuit Current Max Power Current As with most inverters you should be looking primarily at the voltages and make 100% sure to not exceed the max voltage as in most cases that's what can do damage. I am getting the 605MS's Here are the specs:
July 17, 20233 yr Author On 2023/06/23 at 5:22 PM, zsde said: I have the same Inverter, albeit the original version with Firmwares 040 and 041 There have been two sneaky model updates since with different firmwares, but the model number never changed and the firmwares are not interchangeable, in fact, you cannot even parallel them unless they are the same version. The original version had an 18A max for the MPPT. With the last Firmware update that was increased to 22A. Not sure if these latest models are also base 18A or whether they come with 22A with their factory released Firmware. The max PV input is 6000W. With my Panel config I get around 255V under load max per string, at a clipped 22A that equates to ~5600W and I have only seen that once or twice in 2 years. Although the manual states 450V VoC max, the MPPT operating range is 120-430Vdc. The max voltage should not be exceeded. The MPPT can't clip excess voltage. So the Growatt 5000ES spec show that max PV array power is 5500W. So the max could then only be nine 605W panels giving you 5445W? Max Open Circuit Voltage is 450VDC. Nine panels would give you 373,5V which is well within spec. https://onlineshop.gcsolar.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/5Kw-48V-Growatt-SPF-5000-ES-datasheet.pdf If I were to add 10 panels it would give me 6050W and 415VDC. Can one exceed the Watts (in this case by 9%) but keep the operating Volts within spec? LD Edited July 17, 20233 yr by L_D
July 18, 20233 yr Author This is the suggested wiring from the electrician. Two rows in series, hooked up in parallel. The current under this config would be too high for the inverter, should all ten not be hooked up in serie to keep the current at 17,25A?
July 18, 20233 yr 56 minutes ago, L_D said: The current under this config would be too high for the inverter, should all ten not be hooked up in serie to keep the current at 17,25A? Will these panels face the same direction? In a split east-west (for example) configuration the parallel wiring might make some sense, but it makes no sense if they all face the same direction and then it will be way over the maximum current.
July 18, 20233 yr Author 7 hours ago, p_i said: Will these panels face the same direction? In a split east-west (for example) configuration the parallel wiring might make some sense, but it makes no sense if they all face the same direction and then it will be way over the maximum current. Yes they will all face North. Series is the only way to hook them up as suspected. One last question to the forum though. Growatt states max current at 18A and max voltage at 450VDC, that gives you max power of 8100W as opposed to the max 5500W they are stating. My gut feel is that this install would be safe installing ten 605 panels in series giving power input of 6050W given the fact that my current would be 17.25 and my voltage would run at 351V. Current and Voltage are the two values that should never be exceeded on the inverter hardware, right? When the Aussie forums refer to overloading then they are implicity referring to excess power/wattage that the inverter can handle (obviously up to a point). Edited July 18, 20233 yr by L_D
July 18, 20233 yr 16 minutes ago, L_D said: Yes they will all face North. Series is the only way to hook them up as suspected. One last question to the forum though. Growatt states max current at 8A and max voltage at 450VDC, that gives you max power of 8100W as opposed to the max 5500W they are stating. My gut feel is that this install would be safe installing ten 605 panels in series giving power input of 6050W given the fact that my current would be 17.25 and my voltage would run at 351V. Current and Voltage are the two values that should never be exceeded on the inverter hardware, right? When the Aussie forums refer to overloading then they are implicity referring to excess power/wattage that the inverter can handle (obviously up to a point). Rather put 9 in series. Your sparky has it wrong to use 2 of 5 in parallel.
July 18, 20233 yr 10 minutes ago, L_D said: Growatt states max current at 8A and max voltage at 450VDC, that gives you max power of 8100W as opposed to the max 5500W they are stating. It's actually 18A and MPPT operating range of 120-430V (https://www.growatt-inverter.com/product/spf-5000-es/). 450V is the Voc danger zone where the magic smoke escapes, so please stay far away from that. However, 430V * 18A = 7740W, so not sure where their maximum of 6000W comes from. 12 minutes ago, L_D said: My gut feel is that this install would be safe installing ten 605 panels in series giving power input of 6050W given the fact that my current would be 17.25 and my voltage would run at 351V. Current and Voltage are the two values that should never be exceeded on the inverter hardware, right? Current can be clipped if needed by the inverter (I know this of Sunsynk, not 100% sure of Growatt) but Voltage should never ever exceed the Voc value, which is 450V in your case. In your case putting two strings in parallel will give maximum 34.5A which exceeds the 18A max by far, so don't do that; it might also be too much to clip by the inverter.
July 18, 20233 yr Which version of the 5000ES do you have? By that I mean, check your Firmware versions as that will be the only way to determine that. The original versions had a 6000W PV input and 18A. The 18 A was lifted to 22A with the last Firmware they ever issued for the original models. Growatt in their wisdom never changed the model numbers and the latest versions should in my mind be able to get the same Firmware update to 22A. But that may be a technical restriction now, who knows. In any case, your panels are just about 18 Amps and the inverter will clip at 18A for now. Paralleling them would still only provide 18A but I would be concerned to double the potential Amps in the hope it will manage . I would string them 10 in series which would be below the max MPPT voltage and spot on for the current 18A.
July 18, 20233 yr Author 16 hours ago, zsde said: Which version of the 5000ES do you have? By that I mean, check your Firmware versions as that will be the only way to determine that. The original versions had a 6000W PV input and 18A. The 18 A was lifted to 22A with the last Firmware they ever issued for the original models. Growatt in their wisdom never changed the model numbers and the latest versions should in my mind be able to get the same Firmware update to 22A. But that may be a technical restriction now, who knows. In any case, your panels are just about 18 Amps and the inverter will clip at 18A for now. Paralleling them would still only provide 18A but I would be concerned to double the potential Amps in the hope it will manage . I would string them 10 in series which would be below the max MPPT voltage and spot on for the current 18A. Here is my Firmware version @zsde I saw on this thread that a firmware upgrade takes the limitation to 22A as you also said zsde. I recall that I once logged a call with Growatt on the 040 series and asked what is the latest firmware. It is 40.06, 41.06 Here is the link that Growatt gave me to download the correct firmware. It is maybe worth my while to upgrade the firmware given that my panels in serie will be so close to the 18A limit. I have 11 panels and if connected in series would look like this: Does anyone in the forum have any practical experience with overloading of power in this inverter and how much unnessecary power the inverter will clip? I have reached out to Growatt @ [email protected] to also get some input on the proposed install. Add in a conservative efficiency loss of 10% then gives 5989W of power. "When designing your system, a good rule of thumb is that your solar panels should be 10-20% larger than your inverter. In hot climates, that can be extended up to 30%, due to greater efficiency losses from heat." Link Taking the above you then take the power minus efficiency loss (5989) divided by the maximum PV input (5500W) which gives you 9%. I have seen many comments stating 6000W as the input max in which case this gives me a 99,8% PV array match to the inverter. "Typically at solar noon (maximum solar irradiation), a PV array will have its STC output power de-rated by between 20-25%, due to the array operating above 25ºC." Link Given the type of loss from this statement at 25% will give 5656W. Edited July 19, 20233 yr by L_D
July 18, 20233 yr 52 minutes ago, L_D said: takes the limitation to 22A So you have the original 5000ES model. The 40.06 - 41.06 is the Firmware I upgraded to. It was the last one before they changed to the later version with 6X series Firmware and from what I could gather the current 5000ES model has a 1XX series firmware. (Perhaps someone with the latest model can post the full firmware version they have) Edited July 18, 20233 yr by zsde
July 19, 20233 yr 17 hours ago, zsde said: So you have the original 5000ES model. The 40.06 - 41.06 is the Firmware I upgraded to. It was the last one before they changed to the later version with 6X series Firmware and from what I could gather the current 5000ES model has a 1XX series firmware. (Perhaps someone with the latest model can post the full firmware version they have) Latest version is 113 01 C.05 114 01 C.05 on the new Growatt spf 5000 es i bought yesterday.
July 19, 20233 yr Author 39 minutes ago, Off Grid Farmer said: Latest version is 113 01 C.05 114 01 C.05 on the new Growatt spf 5000 es i bought yesterday. ....but yours is different firmware and internals. You cannot load 113 on a 40.06. Growatt mistakenly gives all these different inverters the same model number.
July 19, 20233 yr On 2023/07/18 at 12:35 PM, L_D said: This is the suggested wiring from the electrician. Two rows in series, hooked up in parallel. The current under this config would be too high for the inverter, should all ten not be hooked up in serie to keep the current at 17,25A? Looking at the drawing from the electrician it seems he is using VMP instead of VOC voltage as i know for a fact the Canadian 605 panel has a VOC of 41.3v if you connect 11 in series your voltage will exceed the max VOC of the Mppt. 11 x 41.3 = 456.6v. 10 panels in series will be 413v that gives you some margin. So i would go max 10 x 605w =6050 watts. Edited July 19, 20233 yr by TaliaB
July 19, 20233 yr 28 minutes ago, TaliaB said: Looking at the drawing from the electrician it seems he is using VMP instead of VOC voltage as i know for a fact the Canadian 605 panel has a VOC of 41.3v if you connect 11 in series your voltage will exceed the max VOC of the Mppt. 11 x 41.3 = 456.6v. 10 panels in series will be 413v that gives you some margin. So i would go max 10 x 605w =6050 watts. The problem is also 2P strings will have a 35A current which is way too high.
July 19, 20233 yr Author 2 hours ago, TaliaB said: Looking at the drawing from the electrician it seems he is using VMP instead of VOC voltage as i know for a fact the Canadian 605 panel has a VOC of 41.3v if you connect 11 in series your voltage will exceed the max VOC of the Mppt. 11 x 41.3 = 456.6v. 10 panels in series will be 413v that gives you some margin. So i would go max 10 x 605w =6050 watts. Thank you @TaliaB, VOC makes much more sense. I will stick with 10 panels that will be within spec without melting my inverter to a crisp.
July 19, 20233 yr If there's any freedom with this installation to install panels at a higher tilt angle - say 40 degrees, optimised for generating more in Winter - that could help keep the peak power in limits during Summer. Not necessarily critical.
July 19, 20233 yr Author 33 minutes ago, GreenFields said: If there's any freedom with this installation to install panels at a higher tilt angle - say 40 degrees, optimised for generating more in Winter - that could help keep the peak power in limits during Summer. Not necessarily critical. Panels are facing direct North with a 35 degree pitch
July 19, 20233 yr 16 minutes ago, L_D said: Panels are facing direct North with a 35 degree pitch I think it could depand on the type of trusses used as i know my roof pitch is 26deg.
July 19, 20233 yr 6 hours ago, Off Grid Farmer said: Latest version is 113 01 C.05 114 01 C.05 on the new Growatt spf 5000 es i bought yesterday. Thank you. Do you know if it's an 18A MPPT or whether there has been a Firmware update also increasing that to 22A. Another thing I picked up on the new 5000ES models is that a hub is now needed for CAN/RS485 comms in a parallel config. On our current/original models this was handled by the comms cable between the Inverters. Why they continue with the same model number is beyond me as the old inverter basically needs an internal replacement of boards to make it compatible for paralleling with the latest model.
July 20, 20233 yr On 2023/07/19 at 3:33 PM, L_D said: ....but yours is different firmware and internals. You cannot load 113 on a 40.06. Growatt mistakenly gives all these different inverters the same model number. Yes it seems so. i Don't think they care much about model numbers just production.
July 20, 20233 yr 21 hours ago, zsde said: Thank you. Do you know if it's an 18A MPPT or whether there has been a Firmware update also increasing that to 22A. Another thing I picked up on the new 5000ES models is that a hub is now needed for CAN/RS485 comms in a parallel config. On our current/original models this was handled by the comms cable between the Inverters. Why they continue with the same model number is beyond me as the old inverter basically needs an internal replacement of boards to make it compatible for paralleling with the latest model. It is 22A. i Don't know if the new 113 version inverters will communicate with the 40.06. The only way is to test it your self and hope for the best. Ginverter does not respond to our questions so it is frustrating to wait and see.... You could try sending a email to [email protected] perhaps they will respond.
July 20, 20233 yr 1 hour ago, Off Grid Farmer said: perhaps they will respond. I did contact Amos, their International Rep. None of the three versions of this model can parallel without having hardware (comms board) changes done.
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.