Axpert "back to grid" behaviour

[Mike]

@ebrsa, best you check that 8kw breaker.....

[ebrsa]

@Mike it worked just fine when I exceeded 8Kw one evening ages ago. Until the faulty inverter has been fixed, I am running off the grid mostly. I have switched the grid input to the inverters off and use solar only when enough is generated to power the house too. Otherwise solar only charges batteries. So until your installations is done so that you have a moment to disconnect the faulty inverter it is all a bit pear shaped. Also I suppose both inverters will have to have the single unit boards re-installed until they can be paralleled again.

[Coulomb]

11 hours ago, ebrsa said:

Also I suppose both inverters will have to have the single unit boards re-installed until they can be paralleled again.

No, as far as I know there is no problem running an Axpert with parallel board all wired up in single mode. [ Edit: there isn't a "single machine board" that gets replaced; paralleled machines have an extra board with the connectors for the CAN bus and current sharing cables. I suppose this paralleling board  will waste a tiny bit of energy. ]

It might be worth changing setting 28 (AC output mode) back to Sig if the other machine is gone for an extended time, but I can't see how it would make much difference. But for goodness sake don't forget to put it back to PAL before paralleling them again.

I believe Weber ran his pair of machines for months without problem with only one machine turned on (other one isolated from the battery, load, and AC in) for months, with no apparent ill effects. I think it always wins the contest to become master, and wastes a tiny bit of energy looking for the slave, but when it finds that it isn't there, it merely shrugs and works on its own.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Coulomb
Weber's machine -> pair of machines; no "single" board

[Mike]

100% correct, just isolate the batteries, and AC input and we can remove it. It will continue to work as a single unit

[ebrsa]

Thanks a lot for the good news @Coulomb and @Mike. Will make the job to remove and hopefully replace a repaired inverter, much easier. I still have the 2 boards that were replaced, called communication boards in the parallel kit manual. However there are only 2 sockets on them with no tracks visible even if held up against the light. So it is unclear what purpose they served.

Unfortunately my 6 panel array is connected to the faulty inverter and needs to be connected to the other one. So Mike I would rather wait until you are available to do it and watch and learn to do it next time which I hope there will not be. Thanks again for all the help. It really turned the problem into something much more managable. @Coulomb your information about bypass and maximum current reassured me that I could comfortably cope with one inverter until the other is repaired. Given that 2 inverters in parallel will be able to manage 14Kw maximum in bypass mode, means any needs for rewiring some loads to the grid is no longer a consideration.

I am sure others have gained valuable knowledge too for the day when they have the same problem, hopefully never.

Edited June 10, 2018 by ebrsa

[Coulomb]

51 minutes ago, ebrsa said:

I still have the 2 boards that were replaced, called communication boards in the parallel kit manual. However there are only 2 sockets on them with no tracks visible even if held up against the light. So it is unclear what purpose they served.

For a moment I thought you skipped this step:

   "Step 7: Put communication board back to the unit."  (Parallel Guide)

But I'd forgotten about those blanks. And yes, it's quite curious that they go to the trouble of providing them. Perhaps there is some cost advantage to having somewhere to terminate the cables. Or it makes their inventory easier somehow. And yes, they have no active purpose, so there is no need to keep them or to place them back.

Edit: maybe the blank boards give a place for the cables to anchor to, so they don't wander elsewhere causing mischief.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Coulomb
Last sentence.

[ebrsa]

@Coulomb the only reason for keeping them is perhaps that if I decide to replace the 4Kw Axperts and sell them, I could re-install the blank boards and sell the parallel kits seperately. Hardly likely now that I know the bypass feature will handle large loads. But just in case. I have too often discarded stuff after years only to find a dire need for it within days. Needless to say, after decades of hoarding, space is at a premium and I am on a yet another turf out crusade.

[ebrsa]

@Coulomb just as a matter of interest, I tried to change setting 28 to Sig but it simply remains on Par. I suppose it must detect the parallel board and the stays on Par. However it works just fine. I am only mentioning it as you appear to run a single inverter and therefore cannot test this setting.

[Chris Louw]

Something tells me that setting 28 will not respond with the inverter switched on .Try switching the inverter off and do the setting . Hope I'm right

[Coulomb]

2 hours ago, Chris Louw said:

Something tells me that setting 28 will not respond with the inverter switched on .

Correct. The Parallel Manual states:

     "*This setting is only available when the inverter is in standby mode (Switch off)."

But my recollection is that if the inverter is switched on, you don't see setting 28 at all; it would go from 27 to 29 without stopping at 28. [ Edit: but see next post. ] That's presumably not the same as trying to set it to Sig and having it fail to "stick", or no having the Sig option (only PaL and the three-phase options).

I'm surprised by not being able to change setting 28 to Sig with a parallel card installed. But as @ebrsa mentioned, I don't have a parallel system myself, so I can't speak from personal experience.

Looking at the code, it seems that if the load relay is on, then you won't be able to change the output mode. That makes some sense, I suppose.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Coulomb
Indented the quote from the manual.

[Coulomb]

17 minutes ago, Coulomb said:

But my recollection is that if the inverter is switched on, you don't see setting 28 at all

Looking more through the code, either the behaviour has changed, or I mis-remembered. The main way for the load relay to be off is if you are in standby mode (the inverter switch is off), and you'll always see setting 28 (at least in 73.XX factory and patched firmwares). It silently refuses to change setting 28 if the output relay is on.

[ebrsa]

Thanks a lot @Coulomb and @Chris Louw for your advice. I turned the inverter off today and could then change setting 28 to Single. Just remember to reset once my faulty inverter is repaired and reconnected. Did not notice any changes in operation so was just a learning experience.

[ebrsa]

My faulty inverter was repaired by Pinnacle free of charge for which I am understandably very grateful. The repair report states that the inverter board was replaced and my dealer was told that condensation was evident and may have been the cause of the failure. Perhaps those in areas of high humidity, on occasion, would be best advised to ensure that the inverter temperature does not drop too low in order to prevent condensation.

I have flashed the Aussie firmware ver 73.00 to the inverter but not the SCC ver 4.10 firmware as it is stated on the AEVA website that this is neither required nor recommended. @Coulomb perhaps you would comment if it is fine to run the inverters in parallel with one SCC on ver 4.00 and the other on ver 4.10 firmware. My solar charge current will never exceed 60A as my panel array is 2310W which is split with 3 panels on one inverter and 6 on the other.

Edited August 8, 2018 by ebrsa
Correcting error

[Coulomb]

13 hours ago, ebrsa said:

@Coulomb perhaps you would comment if it is fine to run the inverters in parallel with one SCC on ver 4.00 and the other on ver 4.10 firmware.

Good question; I had to think about that a moment. But I can't see a problem. The master and the slave will both talk to their SCCs separately, and both are presumably running the same patched firmware. So all should be well. 

[ebrsa]

Thanks a lot @Coulomb. It seems a bit strange that the inverter came back with SCC 4.00 fimware as it was flashed with 4.10, unless the circuitry is all on the same board or the SCC board was also replaced if it is seperate. The system has been running for about 2 weeks and I have not noticed anything strange. Is there a significant improvement in the ver. 4.10 firmware that would make it of value to risk upgrading. I doubt that Pinnacle will be very accomodating if the flashing goes wrong.

[Coulomb]

2 hours ago, ebrsa said:

... unless the circuitry is all on the same board

It's not. The SCC is always separate.

Quote

 or the SCC board was also replaced if it is seperate.

They must have replaced it too. There's not much left after those two boards are replaced. I wonder if they just gave you a different (hopefully new) machine.

Quote

Is there a significant improvement in the ver. 4.10 firmware that would make it of value to risk upgrading.

I don't read the SCC firmware as much as the main firmware, but I don't think that there's a lot of difference as far as the user is concerned. So I'd say just leave it as is.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Coulomb

[Chris Louw]

2 hours ago, Coulomb said:

It's not. The SCC is always separate.

They must have replaced it too. There's not much left after those two boards are replaced. I wonder if they just gave you a different (hopefully new) machine.

I don't read the SCC firmware as much as the main firmware, but I don't think that there's a lot of difference as far as the user is concerned. So I'd say just leave it as is.

Hi ebrsa I resently built a Axpert out of two faulty inverters . Used the main board from one and SCC from another . I use Watchpower to collect data  . When we did the test run to evaluate if the inverter was OK , I observed that inverter number changed on Watch power . It wasn't corresponding with the number below the barcode on the side of the inverter . The new number was that of the inverter from which I removed the SSC . Would like to know if this also happened with yours . That will maybe tell you what was replaced or if you received a new inverter . Hope I explained correct .

[Chris Louw]

No I learned something also . How to make a  Quote . Do not dare to laugh only touched a PC after past 50 .

[___]

6 hours ago, Chris Louw said:

The new number was that of the inverter from which I removed the SSC

On this side of the fence, the new control board will be programmed with the same serial number as the old one, to keep it consistent :-)

[Coulomb]

10 hours ago, Chris Louw said:

I observed that inverter number changed on Watch power

I'm pretty sure that this number comes from EEPROM. That's on the processor daughter board (not in the microcontroller itself, even though they often have small quantities of EEPROM). It seems that they are not as diligent as the other side of the fence, and did not change that serial number.

So you could tell that way if you got your old daughter board back or not. I imagine that the daughter board would go with the main board. So maybe they only replaced your SCC; "inverter board" is a pretty generic term and might represent the SCC (which is a board within the inverter, hence "inverter board").

Neat idea, @Chris Louw.

[Chris Louw]

Thanks Coulomb . Please school me a bit . I am total none electric . The only reason I tried to fix this was out of frustration not finding someone to help .

The problem was SCC was disconnecting a hell of a lot and I think is part of the reason why the inverter running in Parallel  with this blew the MOSFETs .

First I replaced the control board on the main board but it made no difference . Then I replaced the Complete SCC and the problem was solved . I dit not connect to Watch power after replacing the control board .

Thanks for your input .

 

[ebrsa]

Thanks for your advice @Coulomb. I will just continue to use the inverter with SCC ver 4.00 firmware as all seems to be working fine. Since the case is the original, I guess both inverter and SCC boards were replaced. @Chris Louw  I did not record the serial numbers of the old boards so unfortunately cannot use your suggestion to ascertain what was replaced. However since all is working well again I am a happy man.

[Pelican]

On 2020/02/01 at 1:33 PM, Mark Wayne said:

Hi have anyone installed a Alpha ESS smile 5 system that can help me with an issue I have on my system programming?

I have installed an Alpha ESS system just recently, I have come through numerous issues and managed to slove them and maybe I can assist you.

[0 |>\/\/3|<|<3Я]

On 2018/06/09 at 10:40 AM, Coulomb said:

Yes, the Axpert will switch to bypass mode on overload, as has been mentioned elsewhere, subject to enabling that facility (setting 23, "overload bypass"). I have no idea why you'd want to turn that off, or why it's off by default.

In bypass mode, the limit is the rating of the relays (40 A) and the AC input breaker (also 40 A). So as long as your cabling can handle it, 40 A is the safe limit. If your mains is 220 VAC, that's 8.8 kVA, likely some 7 kW depending on the power factor of the load.

Hi @Coulomb, hope all well. Replying to an old thread I know  The limit in bypass mode is interesting for me as I rely on my Axpert King to simply enter that mode when there is more load than what the inverter can handle inline.

What is the maximum load in bypass mode for an Axpert King 5KW and where can I find / how would I calculate that please?

From the user manual regarding the breaker sizes: "The recommended spec of AC breaker is 30A for 3KW, 50A for 5KW". I do not see the any specific mention of or specification for "relay". I have 50A breakers installed to and from the inverter, per the manual. It has 0ms failover when used inline with loads below 5KW and switches to bypass mode with larger loads.

At times, switching to bypass mode doesn't work, e.g. the power simply cuts out completely, even though the inverter shows bypass to be active. When disabling bypass mode, the power is restored but loads cannot exceed 5KW.