Solar tubes or heat pump

[This_isKat]

Hi All

 

About a year and a half ago I installed an 8kw Sunsynk inverter, 2 x 5.5kwh Hubble batteries and 12 x 545w solar panels. My 150 litre geyser is on non-essential however it gets powered through solar when there's excess solar power. Due to my geyser and household shower habits, I am stilling giving Eskom a lot of my money and the main cause of this is that, in my household, showers are taken early in the morning and at night - unfortunately, I don't think I will be able to change these habits.

 

I have been looking at either getting a heat pump or converting my current geyser to solar using evacuated tubes. After much research on heat pumps, I think the safer (and idiot proof)  route, from a maintenance point of view, is the evacuated tubes. A few of the suppliers gave me a long list of all the issues with heat pumps - some made sense, some didn't. One of the suppliers that I reached out to mentioned that the size of my geyser is too small to store enough hot water for night showers and morning showers and he recommended that I get a second 150 litre and both geyers will be connected to 30 evacuated tubes. His quote (which also includes the second geyser) is more or less around what a heat pump would cost. According to him, the water will be heated during the day from the sun and there should be enough hot water for night and morning showers. This makes sense to me - but I would appreciate any views (good or bad) on the above  so that I can make a somewhat informed decision?

 

Thanks!

[Nish4]

I recently went through this exercise. We have a 150ltr geyser that only gets used at night for two people showering. When investigating I noticed that Heat pumps are not that efficient in cold temperatures and still require power to run when the hot water is turned on. I went with the evacuated tube system linked to a geyser-wise setup (solar panel, pump and 2kw element) The water is circulated through the heat exchanger only when there is sun (it will not cool the water down at night).

I have had the unit off-grid for a month and can report the following:

On most days in January, the geyser reached 60 degrees during the day (sun only, no power) 67 degrees were recorded in February!

After two showers the temp dropped to 45 degrees and raised again to 50 degrees (the geyser is well insulated).

The temp would rise again in the morning after 10am and the cycle would continue.

The geyser-wise controller can be set up remotely and controlled through an advanced timer.

There is a quick heat button on the display that will heat the water if necessary and flash when the required temp is reached.

The 2kw element is essential if you want to run this through the inverter.

I have saved R900 during this month.

[This_isKat]

34 minutes ago, Nish4 said:

I recently went through this exercise. We have a 150ltr geyser that only gets used at night for two people showering. When investigating I noticed that Heat pumps are not that efficient in cold temperatures and still require power to run when the hot water is turned on. I went with the evacuated tube system linked to a geyser-wise setup (solar panel, pump and 2kw element) The water is circulated through the heat exchanger only when there is sun (it will not cool the water down at night).

I have had the unit off-grid for a month and can report the following:

On most days in January, the geyser reached 60 degrees during the day (sun only, no power) 67 degrees were recorded in February!

After two showers the temp dropped to 45 degrees and raised again to 50 degrees (the geyser is well insulated).

The temp would rise again in the morning after 10am and the cycle would continue.

The geyser-wise controller can be set up remotely and controlled through an advanced timer.

There is a quick heat button on the display that will heat the water if necessary and flash when the required temp is reached.

The 2kw element is essential if you want to run this through the inverter.

I have saved R900 during this month.

Thanks for the feedback! Out of interest, do you also use the geyser in the morning and with regards to insulation, I assume you have a geyser blanket?

 

I currently have a 4kw element - it's probably a good idea to replace it with a 2kw element. I suspect my current 150 litre geyser may not be enough for my needs given the night and morning showers. Here's a screenshot of the items that the supplier included in his quote:

  

[Nish4]

Yes, we use the hot water in the morning for the normal ablutions but NOT a bath or shower. The water is pretty warm in the morning and you could boost it for 1/2 hour to get the temp back into the 50-degree side. 2kw for 1/2 hour on the non-essential side is not a big deal from the grid.

The geyser is fully insulated with a properly fitted blanket with all hot water pipes lagged for 2m in all directions.

Edited February 12 by Nish4

[Scorp007]

I do think I am partially qualified after using my heat pump for 13 years to give a view on heat pumps. I do NOT even have power connected to the element. The heat power on time is just longer in the winter but no need on mine to have the element. 

Absolute garbage that the pump must run when you drain the geyser for a bath/shower. For some makes it is essential not to switch the pump on when running a bath as it will then instantly mix the hot and incoming cold water. 

During winter I just run the heat pump for 3 hours. I have a timer on and switch it on @04h00 in the morning  and also at 15h00. It is connected to a 150L geyser and we have hot water when we need it and enough to bath or shower. Should we have a bath during the periods before the timer switched on I just remotely run the heat pump for an hour to get the temp back to 55 degrees. 

One could expect those pro solar geysers to alway knock heat pumps. It is the same as installers pushing a certain brand of inverters. 

My input based in Gauteng. Still just as impressed with it using less than 50% of an element than when it was installed. 

[CobusK]

I've been running ATS heat pump for years and am impressed by the performance, to say the least. Never used the element of the geyser since. However, in my quest to total independency, I bit the bullet a couple of years ago and, additionally, installed an evac tube system (20 tubes) in a hybrid configuration with the heat pump.  The heat pump is controlled with the integrated ATS controller/timer and the evac with the SR 81 controller.  The backbone on the electrical side is the Deye8kw and 10.2Kw battery.  Even though  it is an elaborate (expensive?) arrangement, it provides the performance and results i expected.  ROI is excellent and will break even soon. 

[Scorp007]

I can just say my ITS heat pump has been my best ever gadget installed. Paid for itself I think 3-4 times over and also inverter friendly. Heats faster than an element(3kW) in summer at 50% or less of power used.

Edited February 10 by Scorp007

[Bobster.]

On 2024/02/09 at 11:59 AM, This_isKat said:

One of the suppliers that I reached out to mentioned that the size of my geyser is too small to store enough hot water for night showers and morning showers and he recommended that I get a second 150 litre and both geyers will be connected to 30 evacuated tubes. His quote (which also includes the second geyser) is more or less around what a heat pump would cost. According to him, the water will be heated during the day from the sun and there should be enough hot water for night and morning showers. This makes sense to me - but I would appreciate any views (good or bad) on the above  so that I can make a somewhat informed decision?

Good on him for doing the analysis and trying to find a best fit solution.

I have heat pump, and I run it on the backed up side of my system. As already pointed out, the pump is faster and more efficient than an element. Mine draws about 1.7 kW, but at this time of year it runs for maybe 30 minutes in the morning to get to 60 degrees (it won't allow a higher temperature). We also have lots of extra insulation on the geyser, and cladding on the hot water pipes. Currently it switches on at 6:30 in the mornings and is set to turn off again at 7:15 but hardly ever runs that long. It then comes on again at midday, and is allowed much more time but, again, rarely exceeds 30 minutes.

It doesn't matter if the sun is shining or not at run time (I don't get a lot of PV at 6:30) but, of course, if we have a run of overcast days then eventually I have to charge the battery from the grid and that point you could say it's cost me money.

We are just two people. I shower in the morning, the wife likes to shower in the evening, and at 20:00 the water is still plenty hot enough.

So we would do better than solar, I think, for early morning showers. And if the sun doesn't shine at all you'll have to fall back on Eskom.

We try to do as much as possible between 9:00 and 16:00, and really in the morning. We run the dishwasher during the day, the pool pump runs during the day, we try to do everything with appliances during the day. Etc. Because of this there is usually 60 ish % of the battery (10 kW/h) left at 6:00, and that gives me enough to run the pump and then start recharging a little later in the morning. A lot of living with any form of powering stuff from solar comes down to routines. You literally have to make hay whilst the sun shines.

So I'd look at your routines and your usage (electricity and water) and see if there's anything you can do to optimise your current situation before you start spending money. What can you change? Does it suit you to change?  It's all trade offs, and we all weigh things differently.

There's a right solution for you and your family, but there's no one right solution. 

NB! I have a second, rarely used, geyser. I can heat that up in the afternoon on a sunny day. It's not on the backed up circuits. The element was downgraded (I think it's 2kW) and it usually takes a bit less than 2 hours (thermostat is set to 60). That would give me a lot more hot water in the afternoon, and most days I can do it with PV power as the battery is usually charged by about 11:30. It's not as efficient as the heat pump, but it still doesn't cost me much as I'm using free energy.

Edited February 10 by Bobster.

[Bobster.]

Me again. At my previous home we had a solar geyser. It's been some years now. I don't think it was evacuated tubes, it had some way of using the temperature of the water to circulate it through the panels. The geyser was on the roof. This didn't work so well for me in the mornings. In the afternoon, in the summer, it could get really hot. I wouldn't like to let little kids control that hot water. Into the evenings we had hot water.  What we have now suits our routines better. We had the heat pump installed well before the solar, and it definitely is a money saver. At first we just let do it's own thing, then we started using the timer functions it has to give it just two runs a day.

At the old house I had to heat from Eskom to get a morning shower (there's another story here about times and ripple switches), so that solar geyser was a money saver too, but if I'd been more flexible it could have saved us more. Also we would have had to get the housekeeper on side and tell her she can have hot water from whatever time but not in the early morning.

I mention all of this because it shows again how you need to try to dovetail your own needs with the sun when do you solar stuff. Or you have to decide on trade offs.

[JayMardern]

How many showers do you need to achieve? How short are you falling at present?

I’m running a 3kW 150l and 4kW 200l, both running via non-essentials (like you, powered by solar through Zero-CT Export), with 4 showers (one of which is early-morning) on the 200l and a further 2 showers on the 150l.

 

I cranked up the thermostat of the busier 200l geyser (from 60 to 75) to solve the same problem you’re having.

 

Both geysers run sequentially/one-at-time from 9AM until 4PM (heating is normally finished by 3PM) and both are then powered off by timeswitch. They don’t turn on again until morning.

In summer there’s now been excess hot water (including for the one morning shower); but the thermostat increase was vital: it caused the geyser to heat for longer in the daytime sun, allowing the water to stay hotter at night. We were always one or two showers short before.

 

In winter I suspect I might need to run one of those geysers for an hour at night; or perhaps crank up the second geyser’s thermostat as well, but we’ll see!

 

On 2024/02/09 at 11:59 AM, This_isKat said:

Hi All

 

About a year and a half ago I installed an 8kw Sunsynk inverter, 2 x 5.5kwh Hubble batteries and 12 x 545w solar panels. My 150 litre geyser is on non-essential however it gets powered through solar when there's excess solar power. Due to my geyser and household shower habits, I am stilling giving Eskom a lot of my money and the main cause of this is that, in my household, showers are taken early in the morning and at night - unfortunately, I don't think I will be able to change these habits.

 

I have been looking at either getting a heat pump or converting my current geyser to solar using evacuated tubes. After much research on heat pumps, I think the safer (and idiot proof)  route, from a maintenance point of view, is the evacuated tubes. A few of the suppliers gave me a long list of all the issues with heat pumps - some made sense, some didn't. One of the suppliers that I reached out to mentioned that the size of my geyser is too small to store enough hot water for night showers and morning showers and he recommended that I get a second 150 litre and both geyers will be connected to 30 evacuated tubes. His quote (which also includes the second geyser) is more or less around what a heat pump would cost. According to him, the water will be heated during the day from the sun and there should be enough hot water for night and morning showers. This makes sense to me - but I would appreciate any views (good or bad) on the above  so that I can make a somewhat informed decision?

 

Thanks!

 

[This_isKat]

Thank you all for the feedback! 

I must admit that the positive feedback on the heat pumps has really thrown a spanner in the works. I had initially ruled out a heat pump based on some of the reviews that I have read (and watched on Youtube). For every one good experience with a heat pump, I came across around 3 to 4 bad/not-so-great experiences. In addition, I got the sense that the margin for error with a heat pump is much bigger than it is for a solar geyser - eg heat pump units don't last as long as they do, bad installers (I saw a photo on one of the forum topics where the ceiling was gushing water from a terrible installation/problem with an ITS pump), some units aren't as efficient as they claim to be (so you don't really see the cost saving) and I understand that the unit needs to be maintained frequently (at least once a year) - I am hopeless when it comes to being handy and I will outsource everything to a service provider, which makes me susceptible to being ripped off.

I have some questions for those with heat pumps:

• which brand is the most reliable and good? I received a private message from the Powerforum Store strongly recommending this heat pump https://powerforum-store.co.za/collections/accessories/products/200-elite-magneto-thermo-tank - does anyone have experience with it? 
• how do I identify a good installer (who knows what they're doing)? Any recommendations for installers who are able to install in the Fourways/Sandton area?
• is maintenance really necessary? If yes, how frequently must the unit be maintained? Any idea (ballpark figure) of how much this would cost?
• would a 150 litre geyser be sufficient for the heat pump and what size pump do I need? A 150 litre geyser is currently sufficient for my households needs but just wondering if I need a second geyser
• are the Eskom savings really as high as they claim to be? Or would you say the root of the savings is complementing the heat pump with a solar set up - a heat pump uses less energy than an element, can work through an inverter with solar set up and has access to excess power? In other words, if the heat pump was fully on the grid, the saving wouldn't be as high? - I hope I am making sense 
• finally, will an 8kw inverter be sufficient to run the heat pump or would l need to run the heat pump through non-essential? 

 

[CobusK]

36 minutes ago, This_isKat said:

which brand is the most reliable and good? I received a private message from the Powerforum Store strongly recommending this heat pump https://powerforum-store.co.za/collections/accessories/products/200-elite-magneto-thermo-tank - does anyone have experience with it? 

Hi there, just confirm with your insurance if they cover the integrated heat pump.  Standard Bank home owners insurance excludes integrated heat pump systems.

[This_isKat]

On 2024/02/09 at 8:06 PM, Scorp007 said:

Absolute garbage that the pump must run when you drain the geyser for a bath/shower. For some makes it is essential not to switch the pump on when running a bath as it will then instantly mix the hot and incoming cold water. 

I think this might be a problem for me and my household, it will take months on learning to remember this.

 

On 2024/02/10 at 10:59 AM, CobusK said:

I've been running ATS heat pump for years and am impressed by the performance, to say the least. Never used the element of the geyser since. However, in my quest to total independency, I bit the bullet a couple of years ago and, additionally, installed an evac tube system (20 tubes) in a hybrid configuration with the heat pump.  The heat pump is controlled with the integrated ATS controller/timer and the evac with the SR 81 controller.  The backbone on the electrical side is the Deye8kw and 10.2Kw battery.  Even though  it is an elaborate (expensive?) arrangement, it provides the performance and results i expected.  ROI is excellent and will break even soon. 

Sounds like you brought a machine gun to a fist fight

Out of interest, what is the size of your geyser?

 

On 2024/02/10 at 2:37 PM, Bobster. said:

Good on him for doing the analysis and trying to find a best fit solution.

I have heat pump, and I run it on the backed up side of my system. As already pointed out, the pump is faster and more efficient than an element. Mine draws about 1.7 kW, but at this time of year it runs for maybe 30 minutes in the morning to get to 60 degrees (it won't allow a higher temperature). We also have lots of extra insulation on the geyser, and cladding on the hot water pipes. Currently it switches on at 6:30 in the mornings and is set to turn off again at 7:15 but hardly ever runs that long. It then comes on again at midday, and is allowed much more time but, again, rarely exceeds 30 minutes.

It doesn't matter if the sun is shining or not at run time (I don't get a lot of PV at 6:30) but, of course, if we have a run of overcast days then eventually I have to charge the battery from the grid and that point you could say it's cost me money.

We are just two people. I shower in the morning, the wife likes to shower in the evening, and at 20:00 the water is still plenty hot enough.

So we would do better than solar, I think, for early morning showers. And if the sun doesn't shine at all you'll have to fall back on Eskom.

We try to do as much as possible between 9:00 and 16:00, and really in the morning. We run the dishwasher during the day, the pool pump runs during the day, we try to do everything with appliances during the day. Etc. Because of this there is usually 60 ish % of the battery (10 kW/h) left at 6:00, and that gives me enough to run the pump and then start recharging a little later in the morning. A lot of living with any form of powering stuff from solar comes down to routines. You literally have to make hay whilst the sun shines.

So I'd look at your routines and your usage (electricity and water) and see if there's anything you can do to optimise your current situation before you start spending money. What can you change? Does it suit you to change?  It's all trade offs, and we all weigh things differently.

There's a right solution for you and your family, but there's no one right solution. 

NB! I have a second, rarely used, geyser. I can heat that up in the afternoon on a sunny day. It's not on the backed up circuits. The element was downgraded (I think it's 2kW) and it usually takes a bit less than 2 hours (thermostat is set to 60). That would give me a lot more hot water in the afternoon, and most days I can do it with PV power as the battery is usually charged by about 11:30. It's not as efficient as the heat pump, but it still doesn't cost me much as I'm using free energy.

Unfortunately, I can't do much on the routine front. My wife has to go into the office so she takes a shower in the morning and our small children need to be prepared for pre-school in the morning so our helper gives them a quick bath.  I work from home so I'm flexible and can take a shower later in the morning. Either one or both of us go to the gym in the evenings at least 3 times a week - so we have evening showers after gym. Most of my hot water usage happens early the morning and late at night. During winter months my monthly usage on the geyser alone is between 850 KWh to 950 KWh. There are months where I feel I would be off-the-grid if it wasn't for the geyser

The solar geyser option (with an additional geyser to store enough water for evening and morning showers) looked appealing but I have a feeling that the winter months will be terrible. 

How many KWh does it take to heat up your water in the morning? Roughly, how many KWh does your heat pump draw on a monthly basis?

[This_isKat]

Just now, CobusK said:

Hi there, just confirm with your insurance if they cover the integrated heat pump.  Standard Bank home owners insurance excludes integrated heat pump systems.

Thanks for pointing this out! I'm with Discovery Insure, I will find out

[CobusK]

3 minutes ago, This_isKat said:

Sounds like you brought a machine gun to a fist fight

Out of interest, what is the size of your geyser

 True, but I never looked back.    The male species are the minority in my household.  200 liter.

[CobusK]

If i would do it again, i would take the Solar evac route and design the plumbing accordingly. 

1.  Always high pressure.

2.  2 x Tanks in Series

3.  Hot water line to complete a ring (circular) feed to all hot water outlets.  Temp control and flow control

4, Cooling circuit (plumbing) for the collector.  

5. Shading mechanism for collector.

6. Exploit system for pool heating

[Bobster.]

2 hours ago, This_isKat said:

I have some questions for those with heat pumps:

• which brand is the most reliable and good? I received a private message from the Powerforum Store strongly recommending this heat pump https://powerforum-store.co.za/collections/accessories/products/200-elite-magneto-thermo-tank - does anyone have experience with it? 

Not me. I have experience of only one brand: Kwikot. This was what was recommended to me. I had no idea about what was good and what wasn't, but it was pointed out to me that if I go for a local brand, spares availabity and support will be better. Though the installer did the early support, and I haven't needed spares.

2 hours ago, This_isKat said:

• how do I identify a good installer (who knows what they're doing)? Any recommendations for installers who are able to install in the Fourways/Sandton area?

I would have recommended the guys who did mine over a decade ago, but they aren't around anymore.

2 hours ago, This_isKat said:

• is maintenance really necessary? If yes, how frequently must the unit be maintained? Any idea (ballpark figure) of how much this would cost?

There is some simple maintenance that needs doing at regular intervals. Cleaning the strainer. More often clearing leaves/twigs/dead bugs out of the grills. I had mine regassed a couple of years ago. This was not expensive. The feeling on this forum was that I must have the word "sucker" on my forehead because unless there's damage to the pipes or the heat exchanger, the system won't lose gas.

2 hours ago, This_isKat said:

• would a 150 litre geyser be sufficient for the heat pump and what size pump do I need? A 150 litre geyser is currently sufficient for my households needs but just wondering if I need a second geyser

You size the heat pump according to the geyser. If you are going to pre-empt a later second geyser, then you will have to massively over spec the pump you buy now.

2 hours ago, This_isKat said:

• are the Eskom savings really as high as they claim to be? Or would you say the root of the savings is complementing the heat pump with a solar set up - a heat pump uses less energy than an element, can work through an inverter with solar set up and has access to excess power? In other words, if the heat pump was fully on the grid, the saving wouldn't be as high? - I hope I am making sense 

There's a saving. The heat pump uses a far more efficient method of heating water. So it can be, and it is, faster while drawing less power.

NB! Mine is limited to 60 degrees. It won't go higher. So if you have people who like a good scalding, then the heat pump might not be for your household. But really, 60 is plenty, you just don't use the cold tap.

As an aside, we have flow restricting shower heads. They actually don't feel restricted at all because of some way they have of generating lots of individual little jets. With any type of water heating that is going to mean less hot water being taken from the geyser, so less work for the geyser to do. I have been using this brand for ... maybe 20 years now. When we moved house we moved the shower heads with us (we took them off before the show day, so the buyer still got what they saw).

2 hours ago, This_isKat said:

• finally, will an 8kw inverter be sufficient to run the heat pump or would l need to run the heat pump through non-essential? 

Depends on the rest of your loads, but I run mine on the essential side (I don't have the smart port thingy). I run mine twice a day: 6:30 and 12:00. This used to be 5:00 and 12:00, but that made little difference. It uses about 1.5 kW. At 6:30 there is not much else happening so we get away with it. You need to have enough left in your battery. So it's the old game of balancing your loads, moving them around using timers, and trying to get the household to work with the system. 12:00 there is more going on in the house. But I try to keep (EG) the dishwasher for earlier in the day. But I have a much lower current limit than you do, you can have far more load at any one time than I can.

Edited February 12 by Bobster.
Sppeling

[Buyeye]

@This_isKat

I had a geyser heat pump at the previous house. It is basically an aircon for your geyser so yes it uses less electricity than an element. 

I would advise a smaller unit as is needed to match your geyser. If you can get away with a 3,6kw unit then that's the one to go with rather than a 5kw unit.

I had 5kw unit which only used 1200 watts to heat 200 litres in less than 2 hours. The 3,6kw unit uses around 900 watts which you would barely notice on a sunny day. The benefit is that you can still run it on a cloudy day.

Aircons have been around for decades, the other benefit is that they come with a timer which makes it obvious that you don't need to run it 24/7. 

The reason I went for the heat pump vs the tubes was that the power demand by the heat pump is essentially the same in summer and winter. It will run longer in winter instead of 1 hour to get to set temp it will take maybe another hour because the water is colder.

[Bobster.]

Whatever you do, and whilst you're doing it, get some good insulation on the hot pipes and the geyser itself. See above. I run my heat pump at 6:30 and 12:00. It seldom runs longer than 30 minutes. So by 12:30 it will have hit 60 degrees and stopped. It is still in the mid to high 50s when the wife showers at 20:00 or so.

[Scorp007]

3 hours ago, This_isKat said:

I think this might be a problem for me and my household, it will take months on learning to remember this.

 

Sounds like you brought a machine gun to a fist fight

Out of interest, what is the size of your geyser?

 

Unfortunately, I can't do much on the routine front. My wife has to go into the office so she takes a shower in the morning and our small children need to be prepared for pre-school in the morning so our helper gives them a quick bath.  I work from home so I'm flexible and can take a shower later in the morning. Either one or both of us go to the gym in the evenings at least 3 times a week - so we have evening showers after gym. Most of my hot water usage happens early the morning and late at night. During winter months my monthly usage on the geyser alone is between 850 KWh to 950 KWh. There are months where I feel I would be off-the-grid if it wasn't for the geyser

The solar geyser option (with an additional geyser to store enough water for evening and morning showers) looked appealing but I have a feeling that the winter months will be terrible. 

How many KWh does it take to heat up your water in the morning? Roughly, how many KWh does your heat pump draw on a monthly basis?

Just a warning. Using the wrong brand coupled with a bad installer things can turn out bad. My installer didn't want want to use my make. 

This caused less than a third of a bath with hot water and the rest of the water was luke warm. The next day I got his brand removed and put in the ITS. 

13 yrs ago ITS was the only brand with a patented loading valve to prevent mixing the incoming cold water with the hot water in the geyser. These days if the installer knows to fit this kind of valve all will be fine. 

After the 1st cold bath the household will learn quick or you will have to remove it. 

Luckily you have the controller in the house so one can always see what the temp in the geyser is. 

The power used differs according to the size of the pump. In my case a full bath takes just over 1hour to reheat to 55 during summer. My pump uses 1500W these days but it used to be 1200W when new. Thus 1.5kWh maximum twice a day at the most for a 150L geyser. 

Compare this to 7kWh to heat 150L from 20 to 60 deg for an element. 

[Moffat]

I have a 200litre solar geyser since 2014. Absolutely have to boost the temperature in winter to the minimum 50degrees which is good enough for hot water. Of the top of my rocker, am thinking it may be a better idea/option to have a shower installed, instead of a bath tub, this would mean the shower head would have to be one which allows a fair level of throttling of the amount of water even if the lever was a maximum to enable the saving of water and also the walls and ceiling from discolouration, if the bathroom doesn't have an extractor fan, which I have seen in many a hotel in my travels. I'm worried with the current heat waves being experienced in my part of the world that the rubbers on the solar geyser may not last too long. Now in the bath I put 1 part hot water to about 20parts cold lately. It may be a good idea to have your solar geyser be connected to Eskom/Grid via a switch such as mine is for winter times rather than the non-essential side of the inverter and also to reduce the size of the water heater so as to make a saving.

Off my rocker, have also seen the use of gas water heaters being quite effective but this is more so in UK and USA, not sure if in Africa anyone has had these and how reliable and robust they are over the course of time. No the Brand is not on or of PowerForum... just my humorous thought, but something of this sort with a 5-9kg Gas tank just outside the bathroom may work... for autonomy from the grid/Eskom, me thinks. This would work both in summer and winter or combined with a solar geyser.

@This_isKat...explore gas as well.

[Scorp007]

13 hours ago, Moffat said:

I have a 200litre solar geyser since 2014. Absolutely have to boost the temperature in winter to the minimum 50degrees which is good enough for hot water. Of the top of my rocker, am thinking it may be a better idea/option to have a shower installed, instead of a bath tub, this would mean the shower head would have to be one which allows a fair level of throttling of the amount of water even if the lever was a maximum to enable the saving of water and also the walls and ceiling from discolouration, if the bathroom doesn't have an extractor fan, which I have seen in many a hotel in my travels. I'm worried with the current heat waves being experienced in my part of the world that the rubbers on the solar geyser may not last too long. Now in the bath I put 1 part hot water to about 20parts cold lately. It may be a good idea to have your solar geyser be connected to Eskom/Grid via a switch such as mine is for winter times rather than the non-essential side of the inverter and also to reduce the size of the water heater so as to make a saving.

Off my rocker, have also seen the use of gas water heaters being quite effective but this is more so in UK and USA, not sure if in Africa anyone has had these and how reliable and robust they are over the course of time. No the Brand is not on or of PowerForum... just my humorous thought, but something of this sort with a 5-9kg Gas tank just outside the bathroom may work... for autonomy from the grid/Eskom, me thinks. This would work both in summer and winter or combined with a solar geyser.

@This_isKat...explore gas as well.

Even at zero degrees ambient temp my heat pump uses less power than an element. This being why I never bothered to call for the backup from the element. My timer is just altered to a longer run time early in the morning and in the afternoon. It is connected on the grid only side but can be switched to the backup supply on my inverter to use during power failures. 

Edited February 13 by Scorp007

[lexor]

On 2024/02/12 at 11:14 AM, This_isKat said:

I have some questions for those with heat pumps:

• which brand is the most reliable and good? I received a private message from the Powerforum Store strongly recommending this heat pump https://powerforum-store.co.za/collections/accessories/products/200-elite-magneto-thermo-tank - does anyone have experience with it? 
• how do I identify a good installer (who knows what they're doing)? Any recommendations for installers who are able to install in the Fourways/Sandton area?
• is maintenance really necessary? If yes, how frequently must the unit be maintained? Any idea (ballpark figure) of how much this would cost?
• would a 150 litre geyser be sufficient for the heat pump and what size pump do I need? A 150 litre geyser is currently sufficient for my households needs but just wondering if I need a second geyser
• are the Eskom savings really as high as they claim to be? Or would you say the root of the savings is complementing the heat pump with a solar set up - a heat pump uses less energy than an element, can work through an inverter with solar set up and has access to excess power? In other words, if the heat pump was fully on the grid, the saving wouldn't be as high? - I hope I am making sense 
• finally, will an 8kw inverter be sufficient to run the heat pump or would l need to run the heat pump through non-essential? 

 

I'm about to install an ITS 4,5kW Super Heat Pump to my 200L geyser. This is the latest model(the super series) with WiFi and linked to an app. 

I did some research and for my household needs a heat pump seems to be the way to go.

https://itssolar.co.za/product/4-5kw-super-its-residential-heat-pump/

 

I called the guys at ITS solar and they referred me to their trusted installers.

They also mentioned that I should rather buy the unit from the installer for better pricing.

I received 3 x quotations ( all from companies with good online reviews , as referred by ITS).

Cheapest about R26000 , most expensive R33000. 

 

 

Edited February 17 by lexor

[Scorp007]

39 minutes ago, lexor said:

 

 

I called the guys at ITS solar and they referred me to their trusted installers.

 

I received 3 x quotations ( all from companies with good online reviews , as referred by ITS).

Cheapest about R26000 , most expensive R33000. 

 

 

I think ITS is just supporting their approved installers. I asked some plumbers that are our clients and the range to install a heat pump ranged from R4-5000. Electrical connection. 4 rawl bolts and 2 T pieces in the existing cold and hot water pipes. The most expensive part is the copper piping between geyser and heat pump. 

If an existing geyser the power is already taken care of. It just needs an isolator outside. It should not take more than 4 hours. 

 

 

Edited February 17 by Scorp007

[Scorp007]

Just to share a real life stat. This afternoon I checked the temp of my geyser when I switched on the pump. 37 deg. 52min later it switched off at 56. Power used 1.3kWh. Using an element it would have used 3.325 kWh.