August 16, 20205 yr 2 hours ago, JohanDbn said: not reaching my bulk charge voltage of 57.6 Does it reach the float voltage? 2 hours ago, JohanDbn said: an you guys please explain the logic of how this works to me? I am afraid I can't - perhaps @Coulomb can? 1 hour ago, JohanDbn said: but it seems as though it has stopped absorption charging It looks fine - you are generating only 563W, of which 230 are going to loads. The rest goes to charging (and losses). What panel configuration do you have? (how many panels in series, 60 or 72 cell panels)
August 16, 20205 yr Author @Calvin yeah it reaches the float voltage. I see 12 to 20 amps as it will push to 55V and 54 volts. The generated voltage depends on how much the inverter requires though, so if it needs to go more it will take more. I'm running 12 400W panels in series(I think), which should theoretically give me about 5kw if needed. Just need some clarity on how the charging works to put my mind at ease. @Coulombthe floor is yours lol
August 16, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, JohanDbn said: Its not even close to bulk voltage, but it seems as though it has stopped absorption charging. You can't tell if it's stopped absorption charging just by battery voltage and current. It could be that there isn't enough PV power to charge the battery any harder at the moment. The battery voltage is determined by the battery, not the battery charger, except by how much current it pushes into the battery. It's often limited with how much current it can push in, which means the battery voltage could be well below the target voltage. To tell whether the charger is still aiming for the absorb/CV voltage (setting 26), look at the CHG LED in the removable display. If it's flashing, then it's still aiming for that absorb/CV voltage. If it's on solid, then it has passed on to the float stage, and is aiming instead for the float voltage (setting 27). If the CHG LED is off, there is no charging. This part is the same for all the Axpert models.
August 16, 20205 yr 2 hours ago, JohanDbn said: it goes to full amps (50) charging in short bursts, not reaching my bulk charge voltage of 57.6,then goes back to discharge. I thought this would do a full charge and then only discharge,instead of these quick bursts. Not sure if that is due to my back to discharge value or any other value in my settings, Here I have to admit to not understanding how the Kings operate fully, not owning one (yet). It seems to me that when the battery voltage is between 46 and 55 V, you would be in line mode, which is a little different with the King than any other Axpert model. But in one of your screen dumps, that's not the case; you're in battery mode. It seems to me that on a King, battery mode is much the same as line mode, except that no power is drawn from AC-in, so therefore there can't be any AC charging. Is it possible that the quick bursts of charging coincided with quick burts of sunshine?
August 16, 20205 yr Author 6 minutes ago, Coulomb said: You can't tell if it's stopped absorption charging just by battery voltage and current. It could be that there isn't enough PV power to charge the battery any harder at the moment. The battery voltage is determined by the battery, not the battery charger, except by how much current it pushes into the battery. It's often limited with how much current it can push in, which means the battery voltage could be well below the target voltage. To tell whether the charger is still aiming for the absorb/CV voltage (setting 26), look at the CHG LED in the removable display. If it's flashing, then it's still aiming for that absorb/CV voltage. If it's on solid, then it has passed on to the float stage, and is aiming instead for the float voltage (setting 27). If the CHG LED is off, there is no charging. This part is the same for all the Axpert models. Thanks for that. So here's my question then... The light is still flashing, meaning it should be aiming for absorption voltage, and I have AC charging up to 50A if needed. The charge light is still flashing, but it seems to not be charging. Is this an incorrect setting somewhere ?
August 16, 20205 yr 25 minutes ago, JohanDbn said: I'm running 12 400W panels in series(I think), which should theoretically give me about 5kw if needed. With a King, you would not have 12 panels in series; the Solar Charge Controller is 145 V absolute max, 130 V max for maximum power. You are probably running 2S6P (two panels in series, with 6 such pairs in parallel). With a King, the Solar Charge Controller output connects directly to the battery.
August 16, 20205 yr Author @Coulomb i think PV in voltage does not always care about sunshine, but only pull what it requires, so even on a bright sunny day, its shown PV input at 400W,instantly pushing higher as the demand increases.
August 16, 20205 yr Author I'm starting to wonder if changing the max for a mk2 won't be better? My supplier did give me the option, and that might just be a better understood one? 17 minutes ago, Coulomb said: Here I have to admit to not understanding how the Kings operate fully, not owning one (yet). It seems to me that when the battery voltage is between 46 and 55 V, you would be in line mode, which is a little different with the King than any other Axpert model. But in one of your screen dumps, that's not the case; you're in battery mode. It seems to me that on a King, battery mode is much the same as line mode, except that no power is drawn from AC-in, so therefore there can't be any AC charging. Is it possible that the quick bursts of charging coincided with quick burts of sunshine?
August 16, 20205 yr Author This seems to be discharging before absorption reached, and I have it on SBL UCB,meaning I'd expect it to be charging from u now (bad weather day)
August 16, 20205 yr On 2020/07/09 at 4:20 AM, JohanDbn said: Ive attached a picture of my batteries (Sorry Im still new to this, so I thought you will understand it better). I have 4 in series, and 2 banks of 4 in parralel, giving me a 400ah backup (So 8 cells in total) That's 8 12 V modules in total; each 12 V module has 6 2 V cells in it. Assuming that the battery says max charge current of 50 A (I can't quite read it in the photo), since you have two strings of batteries in parallel, you could increase the maximum charge current to 100 A.
August 16, 20205 yr 31 minutes ago, JohanDbn said: I'm starting to wonder if changing the max for a mk2 won't be better? I think that the King is the superior model. Axpert MK 2s have their own issues. 20 minutes ago, JohanDbn said: This seems to be discharging before absorption reached, and I have it on SBL UCB,meaning I'd expect it to be charging from u now (bad weather day) I think the problem is that you are in battery mode, where utility charging is not possible. Can other King owners comment please? Does the King flip from battery to line mode as needed, or do settings and conditions have to be right, and it only changes mode occasionally (a few times per day perhaps)?
August 16, 20205 yr Author 1 hour ago, Coulomb said: I think the problem is that you are in battery mode, where utility charging is not possible. Can other King owners comment please? Does the King flip from battery to line mode as needed, or do settings and conditions have to be right, and it only changes mode occasionally (a few times per day perhaps)? I put it onto online. You will see it does the same.
August 16, 20205 yr 32 minutes ago, Coulomb said: Can other King owners comment please? Does the King flip from battery to line mode as needed My understanding is (was?) that, when in SBU or SUB, it only flips to Line mode when the battery voltage drops below setting 12. It will then revert to battery mode when the battery voltage gets to setting 13. Note that with the King in line mode it will use PV (if available) before grid power, both for loads and charging. So many permutations of settings, conditions, firmware versions - every time I try to get on top of this I end up with a headache....
August 16, 20205 yr Author 2 minutes ago, Calvin said: My understanding is (was?) that, when in SBU or SUB, it only flips to Line mode when the battery voltage drops below setting 12. It will then revert to battery mode when the battery voltage gets to setting 13. Note that with the King in line mode it will use PV (if available) before grid power, both for loads and charging. So many permutations of settings, conditions, firmware versions - every time I try to get on top of this I end up with a headache.... I took it off Aut and into online mode,but it now shows battery mode again, at 52V and 2A charging, which can't be right (can it?) Jeesh my head haven't felt this flat in a while, its just not making any sense
August 16, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, JohanDbn said: I took it off Aut and into online mode,but it now shows battery mode again, at 52V and 2A charging, which can't be right (can it?) Have you tried setting the total charge current higher (than the utility charge current)? Also not sure if you really change anything by going from AUT to LINE and back (in setting 10) - they both result in Line or Battery mode (unless utility is unstable, in which case Auto will enable to Bypass). What surprises me is that you see battery mode at all - I thought that you will never see that when the utility is connected (and not in USB), unless the battery has been over the "Back to Battery" setting. I am getting a headache again...🤣
August 16, 20205 yr Author 10 minutes ago, Calvin said: Have you tried setting the total charge current higher (than the utility charge current)? Also not sure if you really change anything by going from AUT to LINE and back (in setting 10) - they both result in Line or Battery mode (unless utility is unstable, in which case Auto will enable to Bypass). What surprises me is that you see battery mode at all - I thought that you will never see that when the utility is connected (and not in USB), unless the battery has been over the "Back to Battery" setting. I am getting a headache again...🤣 LOL, my headache is a constant here now. My total charge is 100A and my AC charge max is 60A. I have now set my "Back to Discharge" to FULL, but I noticed something.... For explaining purposed im gonna use left to right, so SBU left to right is S-->B--U (duh) If i have it in SBU, it seems charging only works left to right, so once you on U, it wont go in reverse and charge the battery, does that make sense? I was on Utility as third option, and it disnt really charge the battery(right to left), but once I set it to USB (which I have it on now), its charging like a bat out of hell, sitting at the absorb voltage and now dropping the amps, as i understand it should do. In the day time then, if u have SBU, solar will charge the battery (left to right), but Utility wont really charge battery (right to left), meaning unless you have great sun, you are not going to reach full charge. Am I even vaguely making sense here?
August 16, 20205 yr Author Some more info. On USB my charging was at 23A, so deep into absorb. I changed it to SUB and it dropped to 3A. This leads me to think that as long as the first option is even a little but available, it will disregard the second option completely, so a minuscule solar can not charge with utility, unlike output, which can do both. I will monitor this further in 3 hours when there is no solar anymore. EDIT: That does not make sense, why then have the max AC and max total charge Amps...For the record, I have it on SBL UCB Edited August 16, 20205 yr by JohanDbn
August 16, 20205 yr All extremely weird - welcome to the wonderful world of Voltronics software... In theory, all these setting (USB,SUB, SBU) affect where the output get its power from, and should not directly impact on battery charging. Indirectly though they do. If there is limited solar, and that is set to go to the loads, then there may be nothing left to charge the batteries. In such a case settings 12 & 16 should determine whether the grid is allowed to charge, and how fast. But your settings are correct... 4 minutes ago, JohanDbn said: Some more info. On USB my charging was at 23A, so deep into absorb. I changed it to SUB and it dropped to 3A. This leads me to think that as long as the first option is even a little but available, it will disregard the second option completely, so a minuscule solar can not charge with utility, unlike output, which can do both. I will monitor this further in 3 hours when there is no solar anymore. It will also be interesting to see how it behaves in full sun. But this does not explain the difference you are seeing. My experience with these inverters is that nothing makes much sense. Sometimes you find a workaround or some combination of settings that works, but you never REALLY understand it....
August 16, 20205 yr Author 5 minutes ago, Calvin said: All extremely weird - welcome to the wonderful world of Voltronics software... In theory, all these setting (USB,SUB, SBU) affect where the output get its power from, and should not directly impact on battery charging. Indirectly though they do. If there is limited solar, and that is set to go to the loads, then there may be nothing left to charge the batteries. In such a case settings 12 & 16 should determine whether the grid is allowed to charge, and how fast. But your settings are correct... It will also be interesting to see how it behaves in full sun. But this does not explain the difference you are seeing. My experience with these inverters is that nothing makes much sense. Sometimes you find a workaround or some combination of settings that works, but you never REALLY understand it.... Any suggestions on a non Voltronics inverter that doesnt mess me around like this? @Coulomb any info on this weirdness? Edited August 16, 20205 yr by JohanDbn
August 16, 20205 yr 30 minutes ago, Calvin said: settings 12 & 16 sorry, that should have been 11 & 16. 25 minutes ago, JohanDbn said: Any suggestions on a non Voltronics inverter that doesnt mess me around like this? One solution is to use something like ICC to control your inverter. Probable cheaper than the alternative, and I believe that it works around most of the issues, and give you a nice management interface. I don't use it myself, but that is because I have built something that essentially does the same.
August 16, 20205 yr Author 1 minute ago, Calvin said: One solution is to use something like ICC to control your inverter. Probable cheaper than the alternative, and I believe that it works around most of the issues, and give you a nice management interface. I don't use it myself, but that is because I have built something that essentially does the same. New to this, please explain what tht is?
August 16, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, JohanDbn said: New to this, please explain what tht is? Just go to https://centurionsolar.co.za. It is a management package that runs on a Raspberry Pi - the complete thing incl hardware is about R2600. Essentially it will modify the inverter's settings on the fly, based on rules that you can define. Also provides very nice graphs and information. There are also some open source software I believe.
August 16, 20205 yr Author 4 minutes ago, Calvin said: Just go to https://centurionsolar.co.za. It is a management package that runs on a Raspberry Pi - the complete thing incl hardware is about R2600. Essentially it will modify the inverter's settings on the fly, based on rules that you can define. Also provides very nice graphs and information. There are also some open source software I believe. Is the one attached the correct one, and will that then solve my issues?, Also if there is some windows 10 open source that can do this that u know of i would appreciate that. Edited August 16, 20205 yr by JohanDbn
August 16, 20205 yr I am afraid that I am no expert on this - perhaps you should start a new topic and ask for input. My impression is that the open source options also run on RasPi or other flavours of Linux. There is apparently some political issues around ICC, now sold by 2 warring parties (centurion solar and iccsoftware). The latter appears to be the good guys but their web site is dismal - not confidence inspiring. I read that ICC had a windows version - not sure if that still exists. A very knowledgeable person to ask might be @Jaco de Jongh Good luck
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