5 minutes ago, Dylan said:

How many power surge plugs do you have? The red ones with the lights.

None. 

On 2022/02/03 at 10:24 PM, Vaal said:

If your earth neutral bonding relay switches a bit too slow or fast couldn't it be a cause of the EL tripping? 

I was also told that a inverter prefer a very specific type of EL. I cannot remember the different types but the one have only a little "sine wave" inside a rectangular block, sign on, that model doesn't work so well on a inverter. Then you get the model with the "sine wave" sign but under the sign there are 2 little humps looks like boobs, also in a rectangular block. To the right of the block there is a type of quarter wave going down. Sound like these models works better with inverters.

My ELs are CBi 63A C2 OA17A and sounds like they work a bit better.

Hope it makes sense or google the part nr for the pictogram. 

You get different types of earth leakage units, also referred to as RCBO's for different applications. 

Tracing an intermittent fault can pose a few challenges, it is good to start with the basics, insulation resistance tests and leakage current tests using a leakage current clamp.

 

 

By the way another issue which I identified while fixing all the other issues ... I found we had a high loop impedance reading. Which has since been resolved. 

My earth leakage hasnt tripped since. 

21 hours ago, isetech said:

By the way another issue which I identified while fixing all the other issues ... I found we had a high loop impedance reading. Which has since been resolved. 

My earth leakage hasnt tripped since. 

That is good to hear. Haha, so the EL did its work. 

On 2022/02/03 at 12:48 PM, rodga said:

Thanks for bumping this thread, I have been meaning to reply as Im still looking for someone in the Centurion area to sort out this issue. But since there was no loadshedding since then it became less urgent.

My fridge was bought new in 2017 when we moved into the place, so I doubt it is the fridge. That said I just placed an order for an ellies fridge and tv safe units. That should then take the fridge out of the equation. I will let you know if anything changes.

 

Failing that I will still need someone to install a type of mains delay switch, where the power is restored a few minutes after load shedding. Or something like @Acuario posted, but I still cant find anything locally. Going to try in the UK as I have friend returning this month.

 

Just to update

I was advised to look into the trip connect unit from clearline along with a contactor that would be installed in the db board. So I contacted clearline to ask about the time delay settings on the Trip-Connect 1F unit - its 10 sec or 5 minutes only, the tech guy mentioned that there is a newer programmable unit that will not require a contactor either, so I have ordered that instead.

http://surgeprotection.co.za/products/12-01036-tripconnect-1p

I installed the above unit last week and everything is working 100% now. No more trips when load shedding ends and no having to wake up at 2/4am to switch the power back on.

Thanks for the help that everyone provided. Much appreciated.

Edited April 21, 20224 yr by rodga

So I've been having the same problem and can't find a reliable electrician in Cape Town to sort it out.  I'm not an electrician (220V scares me) but I am practical and curious.  However, this problem has me stumped.  I asked on the EnergyForum as well and a lot of good advice is provided but nothing I can actually do myself.  So:

1.  Is it possible/ sensible to install this Clearline unit on the feed from the grid (before the inverter) instead of in the DB?

2.  Any recommendations on someone in Cape Town northern suburbs who has the expertise to sort this out?

 

On 2021/11/09 at 12:50 PM, rodga said:

Hi All

With my limited electrical knowledge Ive been trying to figure out what could be causing this issue. Every time load shedding period ends and the power is restored, the earth leakage trips. This is fine when someone is at home and its the middle of the day, so it can just be switched on again. But its a real pain when we are not home or we have LS during the middle of the night, I usually wake up to switch everything on again so the fridge and bedroom fans can go back on.

I have had 2 "electricians" out here in the last few months. The first said that the earth leakage circuit breaker is faulty and its needs to be replaced. So we did that and it changed nothing. Then he said the whole house needs to be rewired. All the while not providing any actual reasons/causes for this issue. The second guy at least had an earth leakage tester but did not pick up anything out of the ordinary. He recommended moving the geyser, stove and outside lights of the earth leakage. I was at first unsure, but after reading some discussions it seems that these devices are not required to go via a ELCB. But I said I will call him when Im ready.

So to avoid spending any more money on something that may or may not work, or just moving things off the ELCB and therefore basically ignoring the issue, I want to get an electrician that has the correct equipment and knowledge to properly diagnose the issue before going ahead with a solution. Please help me find this person, Im based in Centurion so anyone in the area would be first prize.

I have exactly the same problem. In my case, I have a 3 phase supply. if I cut the input manually and switch it on again, then it never trips. It only trips when the mains supply is restored by Eskom. I don't actually have any 3 phase appliances, so I have been swapping the Eskom inputs around so that they power different loads in my house. I haven't had any trips since the last swap I made, but I'm not counting my chickens yet. At this juncture, I am thinking that the problem may be due to an incoming surge on the neutral when mains is restored, which would be expected as all homes in the neighborhood would have their fridges, freezers, pool pumps and aircons etc. turning on at the same time having been off for 2.5 hours. That would also explain why I can't reproduce the problem myself. Surge suppressors can also cause nuisance tripping if they are connected on the load side of the earth leakage switch, however, I am going to install some on the input side of the earth leakage switch to see what happens. I have ordered 4 surge suppressors from Takealot which I should receive in 3 days time (quarter of the price from Builders) . I have also been thinking about having separate earth leakage switches for each phase to help diagnose the problem, seeing that I have no three phase appliances, but I'm not sure if this is allowed from a compliance perspective. That would also entail separating out the neutral wires for each phase.     

https://www.langeberg.gov.za/news-articles/198-front-page-articles/671-power-not-restored-after-load-shedding

" When Power is restored after loadshedding tripping sometimes occures.

This happens when power is restored to an area and fail to come back ON . In some parts the power outage often goes unreported that is due to Loadshedding.

When electrical connection is restored by Eskom/Municipality

The start-up load on a Transformer might exceed the capacity of the network causing circuit breakers to trip .

We are able then to reset the circuit breakers once the peak load is reduced "

On 2022/04/21 at 4:36 PM, rodga said:

Just to update

I was advised to look into the trip connect unit from clearline along with a contactor that would be installed in the db board. So I contacted clearline to ask about the time delay settings on the Trip-Connect 1F unit - its 10 sec or 5 minutes only, the tech guy mentioned that there is a newer programmable unit that will not require a contactor either, so I have ordered that instead.

http://surgeprotection.co.za/products/12-01036-tripconnect-1p

I installed the above unit last week and everything is working 100% now. No more trips when load shedding ends and no having to wake up at 2/4am to switch the power back on.

Thanks for the help that everyone provided. Much appreciated.

Thanks for the info! I ended up going the same route as you, but now my TripConnect randomly stopped using the time delay...took it back to Clear line and they replaced it with a new unit. Installed the new unit, worked fine for 2 days then bam, same problem. They are looking in to it, but I wanted to know if you experienced the same? Or is your TripConnect working perfectly fine?

2 minutes ago, dhirennaidoo said:

Thanks for the info! I ended up going the same route as you, but now my TripConnect randomly stopped using the time delay...took it back to Clear line and they replaced it with a new unit. Installed the new unit, worked fine for 2 days then bam, same problem. They are looking in to it, but I wanted to know if you experienced the same? Or is your TripConnect working perfectly fine?

Haven't had any issues with mine. I will have to check if the time delay is still working but I do believe it is. 

Found this thread due to experiencing the same issue, with a twist. So at present I don't have any backup system/inverter/solar etc. installed. And in the past I've had occurrences where my earth leakage would trip when load shedding ended.

By some fluke, a small subset of our neighborhood has been excluded from loadshedding for the past 3 weeks or so - something something sub station something something different bus. Literally like a one or 2 block area.

Anyway, I STILL have the occasional earth leakage trip when loadshedding ends, around us. Last night I even predicted it correctly. loadshedding was 8 to 12pm, and we had power throughout, but at 12 when power came on for the surrounding area my earth leakage tripped. Same thing happened around 8 this morning.

So the trip was not caused by any change on my side, no device powering up from an off state, or anything, but by the nearby surrounding area powering on after extended loadshedding, late at night (read: lots of cold geysers turning on at once), impacting the power delivery to me to such an extent that my earth leakage tripped. 

I'm not aware if my direct neighbours have similar earth trips at this point. From reading the thread and some youtubing I suspect splitting my circuits between multiple earth breakers might be a possible/viable solution? As noted some base level earth leakage is expected, and designed for in modern electronics and as a geekier home automation nerd I've got lots of electronic devices and smart switches. I haven't measured but I suspect I have a leakage current higher than the average, and whatever surrounding network oddities get caused by loadshedding is enough to push my lone earth leakage over the edge. 

Thoughts and comments appreciated. 

On 2021/11/13 at 8:42 AM, isetech said:

People experiencing the earth leakage tripping at the end of load shedding.

Please be more specific with the type and manufacturer of earth leakage ... is it a big wide old Heinemann (CBI) ... with or without an earth wire at the bottom ... a thinner unit which drops the lever to the bottom ... or is it the new one which trips half and has to be reset by pushing the lever to the bottom then up to reset.

Do you have a chint or ABB or schnieder ... lesco ... major tech  etc etc ?

What is leakage current when the unit is in general daily use? 

DO you have surge arrestors in your DB ... at each plug point ? 

If you have those ellies red plug tops ... have you checked that the 2 light are on as per the instruction. 

DO you have old VIR wiring and metal piping in the roof or do you have PVC wire in PVC conduits ... or twin +e with bare earth wires with no sleeve on the bare earth pushed into pvc boxes ... or do you have surfix where the sparkie hasnt taped where he stripped with the knife.

Do you have a stove connected to the earth earth leakage ... with a plate that you havent used in a long time.

Is your geyser hot and cold water pipes bonded and earthed properly ?

How long is the piece of string ... what is the level of leakage on your property  or just the earth leakage unit ? 

It would be interesting to see if it 

 

 

On 2022/12/06 at 8:01 AM, rodga said:

Haven't had any issues with mine. I will have to check if the time delay is still working but I do believe it is. 

I ended up returning it and wiring in a timer and contactor. While I do this sort of thing at my day job in automation panels, I am not technically a qualified electrician so I'm a bit uneasy about the "compliance" of it all. On the other hand, we are going away for a week or so and don't want to come back to a science experiment in our freezer...

 

For the stats:

Newer type CBi earth leakage (pull down to reset) on samite rail DB

No surge arrestors or protection plugs anywhere in the house.

Edited December 15, 20223 yr by dhirennaidoo

I got the same problem after replacing the common 16Amp plug of my fridge with a surge protected plug ( by Zak speed). I have a professional solar installation with Victron mulriplus inverter and every time the loadshedding starts and while the Victron takes over the earth leakage trips.

If I try to simulate the problem by switching off  the mains manually, the EL will not trip.

So I removed the surge protected plug for now while looking for either another make ( perhaps Ellies) or another solution to protect the fridge.

 

Edited December 23, 20223 yr by giorgos

8 minutes ago, giorgos said:

I got the same problem after replacing the common 16Amp plug of my fridge with a surge protected plug. I have a professional solar installation with Victron mulriplus inverter and every time the loadshedding starts, the earth leakage trips so I had to fit a regular plug to my fridge again until I find a better solution.

 

When loadshedding starts, or when it ends? 

it happened when the loadshedding starts and the victron takes over.

My solar installation is 3 years old, never had the EL trip before so clearly it was due to the surge protected plug that I used

Edited December 23, 20223 yr by giorgos

I had the same issue, replacing the 40year old EL fixed the problem.

Hi did you manage to find the fault that was causing your inverter to trip when the grid resumes. 

On 2023/10/19 at 9:09 PM, Ciza said:

Hi did you manage to find the fault that was causing your inverter to trip when the grid resumes. 

As some other replies on this thread, in my case simply replacing my EL resolved the problem. But replace it with something "propper". I got the "cheapest" Schneider EL, and that fixed it. All the other EL's the electrician used was still causing EL trips on Grid resumes.

Just my 2 cents worth.

The problem with the earth leakage tripping when load shedding ends is fue to the inrush currents and high inrush voltages  the system has when power is restored. Neutral and earth is fundamentally or should be at the same potential at the Transformer star point.

Quick solution to all of.these tripping issues and general protection of your electrical jnstallations 1 phase installtion or 3 phase.

Get a normal circuit breaker as the main switch ir. 80 Amp or 60 Amp.  Then feed it into a standalone 100 Amp contactor,  mounted in a box next to your db.  The reason for a 10p Amp contactor is that due to heat one always need to oversize the contactor, adding 40 % as a safety factor always works.Then from from contactor supplying a 63 Amp Earth leakage unit which then supplies all your load circuit breakers. Then have a phase failure  over under Voltage relay connected to a 10 Amp circuit breaker fed from the load side of the Main switch with a 30 second or more " On" delay function. This relay in short monitors the incoming supply from Council.  Once the supply is stable it switches the contactor on which in turn switches supply to the Earth leakage unit and then to the load circuit breakers. 

You can also install Class 2 surge protection after the main switch before the contactor to protect your system further if you so wish. I would advise it.

Make sure all surge protection units are supplied by a circuit breaker so that if the surge protection ever fails in the closed state the circuit breaker will trip as the secondary side of the surge protector is connected to earth.

For a 3 phase installation install a 63 A earth leakage per phase supplying the load for that phase.

Do not ever take your stove,  geyser or swimming pool off earth leakage. 

if you ever have a problem with one if these 50 mA can kill. Rather find the faulty appliance etc. And fix or replace it.

Anyone who tells you to take anything off earth leakage is a fool and must not be listened to.

Total cost of the above set up is probably just under R10k.

But totally worth it and will save you endless problems.

Get a competent licensed electrician to install the above for you.

Regards

Clint D

Hi,

When I try to connect a wire from the "Input" of the existing wired "Earth Leakage" to an appliance, very same earth leakage trips. What can it be the cause or causes?