Hi Everyone,

I've seen a lot of posts on using solar assistant on a raspberry Pi and I was wondering if any of you heard of or know if connecting a raspberry Pi with solar assistant software voids the manufacturer warranty of a battery?

I have a BSL battery and I need to know if the connection using RS232 to monitor the battery will void the warranty.

Battery warranty document
https://www.valsa.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/51.2V-100AH-Warranty-SA-200421.pdf

I dont think it does because you are not changing the BMS / altering the firmware - just reading the values. updates to charge rates etc are done vie the Inverter (through the Pi via Inverter)

When inputting a PI or similar monitoring device into the RS232 port prevents the BMS from learning the floor and ceiling of the battery. We find in theory that this protocol produces a programming state instead of a learning state with the BMS. We believe using the RS485 which requires the PI to adapt a different protocol is the best way to go.

32 minutes ago, BSLBATT said:

When inputting a PI or similar monitoring device into the RS232 port prevents the BMS from learning the floor and ceiling of the battery. We find in theory that this protocol produces a programming state instead of a learning state with the BMS. We believe using the RS485 which requires the PI to adapt a different protocol is the best way to go.

oh - interesting - thanks for that clarification and correction

1 hour ago, BSLBATT said:

When inputting a PI or similar monitoring device into the RS232 port prevents the BMS from learning the floor and ceiling of the battery. We find in theory that this protocol produces a programming state instead of a learning state with the BMS. We believe using the RS485 which requires the PI to adapt a different protocol is the best way to go.

Thank you for the response, but I have 3 follow up questions

1. Your post did not answer my question regarding if the Pi void's the warranty when connected with RS232?
2. How can I monitor the battery if not through the use of a Pi? Do you have software or know of software that is safe to use and to which port on the Battery will I have to connect it to?
3. If the Pi alters the "floor and ceiling" as you put it, how can this be corrected?

Thanks

Edited June 6, 20224 yr by Jeans
Need to ask more questions

The problem I have is that the battery is not performing according to what it's suppose to. I've reached out to BSL international and they refer me to GetOffGrid, whom is the local supplier. GetOffGrid is referring me to the installer and the installer is demanding a call out fee of R2500 before they do anything. How do I go about getting the problem resolved?

Edited June 6, 20224 yr by Jeans

This is the type of situation when you start to pull your hair out. How long have you had this installation that the installer wants this amount to revisit your site 😑

@SolarAssistant

Would be interested to hear what Solar-Assistant developers have to say wrt to RS232 monitoring "prevents the BMS from learning the floor and ceiling of the battery"

I have the same problem with GetOffGrid in that they make unsubstantiated claims about RS232 and the BMS being very fragile and not able to reliably work with the inverter and get queried via RS232 at the same time. I told hem to please provide proof of this problem but either way I only want to query the BMS by way of the RS485 port, which was not mentioned by them as being a problem, either way if the BSL Batteries and their BMS' are this fragile and I suppose unreliable then they should probably be avoided... I don't believe this, though, since on this page... they refer to " TAKE COMPLETE CONTROL WITH THE BSLBATT POWER APP " which would require comms to the battery directly and not via the inverter, I would think.

I'd say the biggest problem these days is that no-one will ever give a straight answer to a question posed. I asked for the pin configuration of the RS232 and RS485 ports and got a fairy tale about the fragility of the BSL BMS and not being able to report data to the inverter if you look at the RS232 port skew... WTF? what happened to actually answering the question? People answer the question posed and if you don't understand the question please state this, but if you don't, maybe a remedial course in the current language is a good idea, since it obviously is not your 1st language. (It isn't mine, but I seem to be doing ok with it, even though its no 3 on my list.)

This installation is 5 months old and from the get-go, there was an issue with the battery. The first battery’s SoC would go from anywhere above 60% to 100% when charging and drop from anywhere around 30% to 0% when discharging and not once or twice, it happened almost daily while charging and about 10 times while discharging. I’m now on my second BSL battery after the first was replaced by the supplier because they were not able to find or fix the problem, but this new battery is not performing the way it should either.

I’m still in discussions with the installer on how to proceed.

2 hours ago, Kalahari Meerkat said:

I have the same problem with GetOffGrid in that they make unsubstantiated claims about RS232 and the BMS being very fragile and not able to reliably work with the inverter and get queried via RS232 at the same time. I told hem to please provide proof of this problem but either way I only want to query the BMS by way of the RS485 port, which was not mentioned by them as being a problem, either way if the BSL Batteries and their BMS' are this fragile and I suppose unreliable then they should probably be avoided... I don't believe this, though, since on this page... they refer to " TAKE COMPLETE CONTROL WITH THE BSLBATT POWER APP " which would require comms to the battery directly and not via the inverter, I would think.

I must say, as short as this thread is so far it definitely raises some very serious questions about the suppliers of these ready to go built batteries.
I aslo note with unease how many of the SA distributers make up their own parts of the warranties to suit themselves and their mysterious business models.
Seems like most of them just want to move stock and not offer any real support to back up their sales.

I am no longer even looking at these ready built batteries.

From now on I will be building my own batteries. See Andy at Off Grid Garage, he shows detailed info that would be totally contrary to all these statements made by many of these ready built battery suppliers.
If you are not DIY inclined then unfortunately you will be stuck with them.

If the Pi is causing so many issues with battery BMS's, then surely this must be documented and available to the public?

On 2022/06/06 at 1:49 PM, Jeans said:

Thank you for the response, but I have 3 follow up questions

1. Your post did not answer my question regarding if the Pi void's the warranty when connected with RS232?
2. How can I monitor the battery if not through the use of a Pi? Do you have software or know of software that is safe to use and to which port on the Battery will I have to connect it to?
3. If the Pi alters the "floor and ceiling" as you put it, how can this be corrected?

Thanks

@BSLBATT I would really appreciate your response on the above questions?

On 2022/06/06 at 12:49 PM, BSLBATT said:

When inputting a PI or similar monitoring device into the RS232 port prevents the BMS from learning the floor and ceiling of the battery. We find in theory that this protocol produces a programming state instead of a learning state with the BMS. We believe using the RS485 which requires the PI to adapt a different protocol is the best way to go.

Please can verify your identity, is this an official response from the OEM BSL or is it some sort of perceived view of the local distributor GetOffGrid. Any which way I find this response as implausible and my interpretation is that it is a fob-off in order not to take accountability for a defective product

From the above statement my understanding is that if you attempt to configure the BMS via the RS232 port the battery will automatically become defective. 

@Sidewinder Would love to hear your input as you also have SS/BSL/SA combo like me

I have no issues between SA and BSL, bar that the Battery Temps are not correct. Hopefull SA are working on a fix, as the Hubble folks have the same issue. I use about 50% my batteries during the night, have been active for 222 days and they have both registered 111 cycles. Still showing 100Ah each. 

@Jeansif an installer will not support you within 5months of an installation, then you have chosen the wrong installer. If the Manufacturer also doesn't want to rectify then you have the wrong manufacturer. But in Solar this is becoming common place unfortunately. I hope many would not do this. 

Till this day BSL has not responded to my questions and any means to contact them. It's very clear to me that the support on a BSL battery will be a problem in SA. Steer clear of this brand.

The installer bought back the BSL battery from me and in exchange I upgraded to a Freedom Won battery. At least there is proper documentation for battery and BMS, plus it seems the support structure is good.

Edited June 17, 20224 yr by Jeans

On 2022/06/06 at 12:49 PM, BSLBATT said:

We believe using the RS485 which requires the PI to adapt a different protocol is the best way to go.

Then why does the local importer not supply the details about which pins are the 2 relevant for RS485 and since it is likely to talk modbus, what the details are for the cells etc.?

28 minutes ago, Kalahari Meerkat said:

Then why does the local importer not supply the details about which pins are the 2 relevant for RS485 and since it is likely to talk modbus, what the details are for the cells etc.?

Many of the local importers think every person who purchases a battery is going to screw it up if they give them all the info, software, settings etc.
If I pay R40k plus for a couple of batteries I dam well want all the info, software etc to manage the equipment optimally with out having to go through so many hoops.
And the price I pay will ensure I do not stuff it up like they think I am going to do.

My end conclusion is to rather import cells and bmsses direct and build my batteries myself and take on the risk myself.

14 hours ago, WannabeSolarSparky said:

My end conclusion is to rather import cells and bmsses direct and build my batteries myself and take on the risk myself.

That is more than likely the way forward, agree 100%, since it seems the importers/distributors appear to be less than competent, for the most part, from what I can tell...

On 2022/06/17 at 5:39 PM, WannabeSolarSparky said:

Many of the local importers think every person who purchases a battery is going to screw it up if they give them all the info, software, settings etc.
If I pay R40k plus for a couple of batteries I dam well want all the info, software etc to manage the equipment optimally with out having to go through so many hoops.
And the price I pay will ensure I do not stuff it up like they think I am going to do.

My end conclusion is to rather import cells and bmsses direct and build my batteries myself and take on the risk myself.

My only concern with this approach, is how do you get it certified so that it doesn't negate your property insurance?

The cells come with a test report and rating. They are tested for safe operation. An insurance company just wants a CoC...In solar the short coming is that most CoCs come from an electrician or licenced inspector. This qualification mainly draws people from an AC electricity field. In Solar with the DC side of batteries and PV there is such a massive knowledge gap. Hence an insurance company will accept a CoC without issue. 

The CoC is a mere dumb document, the juicy bits for us as Solar people lays in the SANS 10142. This is where we need to pay attention. Some good credible installers follow these guidelines. I'm afraid everyone else especially the Electrician done installations I have audited have seen good AC work but very poor DC and PV integration. In many cases no Earthing of the PV side, no Surge protection and a general lack of correct wiring used. 

In conclusion, the insurance needs a CoC. How safe you want to make a battery build depends on your safety and build quality. 

With these shortages of built battery units expect more ppl to get someone to build them a battery using these. The market is starting to gain traction. Much in the same with Solar Mounts. Renusol all but sold out country wide. Building a Solar mount is not rocket science.