7 hours ago, Coulomb said:

Ah. The smaller board is the daughter board; the much larger main board that it plugs into is the mother board. Sorry for the confusion.

@SilverNodashi, those solder bridges are presumably normal. There are several pairs of pins on the processor chip that connect to the same place. I don't see evidence of problems with the control (daughter) board at this point.

The area of interest will be under the main board, near multi winding inductor TX2 (large chunk of ferrite with yellow tape over the windings).

I wish I had a board to photograph, or photos of that part of the board, but I don't.

Edit: you may find my disassembly and reassembly instructions useful.

 

Hi Columb,

 

Ok, I haven't had to take these boards out yet.I would have at least thought that if two pins need to be connected, they would connect it on the track?

And the one small chip, on the first photo on the left, seem to have some solder splutter between the 3rd and 4th pin, which doesn't look like an intentional solder bridge.

Thanks for the help guys. I desided to take it to voltronics to have it check out. They like 500m from me where i'm now. Hopefully this will not be a expansive school fees. I'm actually disappointed with this inverter. Lasted 2 months. Already looking to move over to the blue or the yellow side after this. 

7 minutes ago, Gerlach said:

Thanks for the help guys. I desided to take it to voltronics to have it check out. They like 500m from me where i'm now. Hopefully this will not be a expansive school fees. I'm actually disappointed with this inverter. Lasted 2 months. Already looking to move over to the blue or the yellow side after this. 

That's one in a million doing that. And I am sure many people here will vouch for how well they work. My own personal inverter has been running since 2015. 

Ok, got a call from Voltronic cape, hhhhhhhmmmmmmm. It's going to cost me just over R4000 +vat to fix it, they will need to replace all the service components to try and fix the problem, and then we still don't know if it will work. So I told them i will rather buy a new Inverter but something that's got a name to back it up. 

So will make a project out of it and will take it on my self and follow the info I already got from you guys where to check for the problem. 

Keep you posted. 

@Garlach. Taking into account your frustrations I back you 100% . I have a simple Q tho. What brand are you referring to that will give you/we deserve. as an end user/ installer/distributor.

my 2c .. there are only a hand full of brands that actually can be repaired. That at a reasonable price and  in a reasonable time frame.

 

Is there anywhere in SA we can Buy parts for the inverters. Do we have to order online.

What would the support be if we can have someone to repair these units. I would back that person all the way

 

Edited May 7, 20197 yr by Tokolosh

16 minutes ago, Tokolosh said:

Is there anywhere in SA we can Buy parts for the inverters. Do we have to order online.

Hah! Online is pretty much what you've got, and order from overseas with long delays is part of the deal. We're not the only country with this problem (See series on Youtube called "The state of electronics" which tells the story of the whole decline of hobby electronics). In South Africa it is worse because everything has to be couriered, the Post Office can't een help you. We don't repair anymore. We throw it away and buy a new one.

If you want something that can be repaired in a reasonable time frame, you need a Victron 🙂

 

Edited May 7, 20197 yr by plonkster

Eish ( where is that face palm emoji when you need it) This is not good at all. Marketing on a product so good.. but where is the support....

@plonksterDo  you not think we should setup a shop like this. i see opportunity here. How can we get a poll going .. how many machines faulty .

I have a guy . Old timer  that is willing to to help us in this regard but he will need assistance with parts and he needs numbers to make it viable. 

Any fellow installers/ distributes willing to take this further with me.

PS I am leaving for China in June. any one knows a place where i can go and negotiate for us on the major parts components we need. 

Edited May 7, 20197 yr by Tokolosh
spelling

31 minutes ago, Tokolosh said:

Eish ( where is that face palm emoji when you need it) This is not good at all. Marketing on a product so good.. but where is the support....

@plonksterDo  you not think we should setup a shop like this. i see opportunity here. How can we get a poll going .. how many machines faulty .

I have a guy . Old timer  that is willing to to help us in this regard but he will need assistance with parts and he needs numbers to make it viable. 

Any fellow installers/ distributes willing to take this further with me.

PS I am leaving for China in June. any one knows a place where i can go and negotiate for us on the major parts components we need. 

Mustek and Rectron both  repair the Axpert inverters within reasonable timeframe. A 5KVA cost about R4K to repair. Then they replace the whole motherboard. Since it's a motherboard, it can be flown in from overseas within a matter of days. Chances are you can get it for a few hundred Rand, but don't quote me on that. And, since you then just replace the motherboard just about any electronics shop can fix it. 

Alternatively, UPS warehouse in Edenvale do repairs on any UPS brands and their work is quite good. They replace components though so you might end up with a cheaper repair, than a replacement board. 

So its do able but to expensive.. I think dealing with the big guns there costing is not in relation to what it should be. Like you said they just replace boards. By replacing boards it should cost cheaper.. not more. 

We need to see if we can change this. With volume repairs we can make it affordable.

 

3 minutes ago, Tokolosh said:

So its do able but to expensive.. I think dealing with the big guns there costing is not in relation to what it should be. Like you said they just replace boards. By replacing boards it should cost cheaper.. not more. 

We need to see if we can change this. With volume repairs we can make it affordable.

 

Well if you're going to China, why not go and chat to someone at Voltronic about it?

http://voltronicpower.com/en-US/Company

i see they have a factory based near HK.. Ill be flying in or out from there.. I just might make arrangements to do so. Thansk

1 hour ago, Tokolosh said:

Do  you not think we should setup a shop like this. i see opportunity here. How can we get a poll going .. how many machines faulty .

Everyone replaces boards nowadays. Also, how much do you think a man should earn per day for this kind of specialist work? How long do you think it will take to troubleshoot the average machine vs just replacing a board?

Local electronics shops also have the same issues regarding supplies and equipment: It all has to be imported. Places where I have worked generally brings in a large order once or twice a month (from someone like Mouser), in order to save costs.

Compared to the competision: The Victrons have a 5-year warranty and the RMA process is typically 2 weeks. If you had to do a main-board replacement on a Multi outside warranty, it would also cost about 4k.

Agree. But if you have someone that does this as a permanent income and he has the support ( equipment/parts and the work) than it could be viable. For us to have them repaired and the guy doing the work.  You mention Mouser does he import parts already for the local market?

 

12 minutes ago, Tokolosh said:

Mouser does he import parts already for the local market?

https://www.mouser.co.za/

There is someone locally handling imports and redistribution. I forgot who. But this is a foreign company. Then there is also digikey, also US-based. Other guys are RS components, Mantech, and so forth. I'm merely lamenting the fact that we don't have a cheap and ready supply in this country 🙂

 

16 minutes ago, Tokolosh said:

Agree. But if you have someone that does this as a permanent income and he has the support ( equipment/parts and the work) than it could be viable. For us to have them repaired and the guy doing the work.  You mention Mouser does he import parts already for the local market?

 

Mouser is an electronics wholesaler. 

I have to agree with Plonkster. Sometimes a component blows, which affect other components but you don't see it. Then you replace the blown part but other issues arise and you need to trouble shoot. 

Nice to see this subject is alive and going. I Spotted on the net that this is common error that pops up on this inverters. I spoken to a guy in cape town side that works on electronic stuff and told me if I can get the schematics of the board, then he can check it out and see if he can fix it. He did some work for me a while ago and spotted some stuff that he was busy with. He said it's electronics so there will be a way to fix it.

Plans for me tonight is to take the motherboard out to inspect it from under. I'm actually really dissipointed with Cape Voltronics. I got the inverter back from them and costing me R860 just to inform me it will cost me R4000 plus to replace stuff on it, inverter coast me R5500.  I open it after getting it back from them and they didn't even inspect the board from under because, spotted this with the screws that was mark. 

I once connected a 12v Victron inverter to a 24v battery. It worked for a nearly a minute before the room filled with white smoke.

It was sent for repairs - for fun - and the caps where replaced. It worked AGAIN!!! ... for a few months before starting behaving strange.

Then I sent it to Victron. They checked it out and ruled that yes, it can be repaired i.e. a new board, cost being slightly less than a new one, after they spent an hour or so on it.

What I took away from this:
1) Every thing can be repaired but how long before something else fails?
2) Replacing boards are not as cheap as we would like to think they are.

And if I sent the inverter back to Victron day one I'm pretty sure they would have said: We can replace the caps but there will be other damage that we cannot see today unless we spend a lot more time on it, time which is just not worth the costs of the repair as there is NO guarantee to be offered.

The questions one should ask:
So if a inverter is repaired, does it go with a guarantee?
If so, for how long and what will that guarantee cost to offer the client?
Is it worth it?

I'm pretty sure at the end of the day the sums will not be in favour of repairing. Devices today are just not geared for that anymore.

3 minutes ago, The Terrible Triplett said:

I once connected a 12v Victron inverter to a 24v battery. It worked for a nearly a minute before the room filled with white smoke.

It was sent for repairs - for fun - and the caps where replaced. It worked AGAIN!!! ... for a few months before starting behaving strange.

Then I sent it to Victron. They checked it out and ruled that yes, it can be repaired i.e. a new board, cost being slightly less than a new one, after they spent an hour or so on it.

What I took away from this:
1) Every thing can be repaired but how long before something else fails?
2) Replacing boards are not as cheap as we would like to think they are.

And if I sent the inverter back to Victron day one I'm pretty sure they would have said: We can replace the caps but there will be other damage that we cannot see today unless we spend a lot more time on it, time which is just not worth the costs of the repair as there is NO guarantee to be offered.

The questions one should ask:
So if a inverter is repaired, does it go with a guarantee?
If so, for how long and what will that guarantee cost to offer the client?
Is it worth it?

I'm pretty sure at the end of the day the sums will not be in favour of repairing. Devices today are just not geared for that anymore.

Same here. My mom's alarm packed up so I took it out and see the MOV is blown. Ok, no worries, get a new one and replace it. Get a new one for R10. The trip to the supplier was far more expensive in terms of time and petrol. Replaced the MOV, nothing else looked blown, took it back to my mother's house and reinstalled it which probably took another 40 minutes to rewire everything in the tight space I had to work with. Test it. Same problem exist. I feel the heatsink and it still gets hot and the remove zone still don't work. So now a R10 job suddenly turns into a few hour's and up and drive to figure out what is wrong since we don't even have an alarm in the house. My conclusion, go buy a new alarm, even if cost R1500. 

Hi @Coulomb , I think i founded the problem. So I Strip the motherboard out and check the underside, and i think i founded the problem. Q10 that is BSX53. You can see in the photos that it looks suspect. I check your drawing and thanks again for posting it. It really help. 

I think to replace Q9 to just for in case to.  

Founded the service manual. This will help to. http://forums.aeva.asn.au/uploads/4111/Copy_of_PIP-HS_MS_4-5KVA_new_Service_manual_201506A.pdf

Q10 looks like it has been hand re-soldered; possibly the wave soldering was found to be suspect by an inspector, or it didn't work and this was re-soldered to fix the problem.

But this is the main power supply. If the LC Display is on, then that would seem to be working fine. As you will probably find in the service manual, I think you should be directing your attention to the circuit with Q6 and TX2, the soft start power supply. In the top right hand corner of this partial schematic trace, you'll see the "transformer" and diode connect directly to the DC bus, to start it softly (with a few watts).

3 hours ago, Coulomb said:

Q10 looks like it has been hand re-soldered; possibly the wave soldering was found to be suspect by an inspector, or it didn't work and this was re-soldered to fix the problem.

But this is the main power supply. If the LC Display is on, then that would seem to be working fine. As you will probably find in the service manual, I think you should be directing your attention to the circuit with Q6 and TX2, the soft start power supply. In the top right hand corner of this partial schematic trace, you'll see the "transformer" and diode connect directly to the DC bus, to start it softly (with a few watts).

Thanks for the responds @Coulomb and info. Ok. I will check q6 and tx2 first to see if there is a problem them. Thanks again ☺

Found another manual, this time a MUST inverter one. https://d.must-solar.com/service/PH1800PLUS-4K5K-Service-Manual.pdf

Wow. I've spotted a major difference between Must inverters and Voltronic Power inverters: Must use blue printed circuit solder mask, Voltronic use green. Otherwise, part numbers and designators (e.g. TX2), layout (apart from the LC Display LEDs position at the left), it's all the same. Even the optional AC power supply.

I wonder if that's a reliable difference, i.e. if it's a quick way to spot a clone (look for the blue PCB inside). You might be able to see the PCB colour through the fans using a torch, without having to open the case.

I'm even more surprised because this manual is supposed to be for the PH1800 models (H for Hybrid, it seems likely), which I believe are grid tie capable. It looks like they use the same or extremely similar hardware to the Axperts (or their own PV1800 series, which seem to be pretty faithful clones of the Axperts), just with augmented firmware.

Thanks for the link; fascinating.

Glad i can help @Coulomb . Only difference I spotted is D65. On the axpert setup they use the  D FC/RHRP8120 8A 1200V UFST RAD BULK and on the Must they use Transistor FAIR/RHRP8120 8A1200V TO-220 . What do you think about that part? 

Edited May 9, 20197 yr by Gerlach