Hey guys. 

Very much a newbie in the whole solar off grid thing. Sorry in advance for the long winded message. I thought the more detail the better. I recently bought a house and I am planning on getting an inverter hybrid system installed and later down the line (6 months or less) will add solar panels a year or two later. 

I have been researching and reading up on systems, batteries etc, but it gets quite overwhelming.  

I do have a gas stove, air fryer (around 1200w), three tvs (1x55 inch (200w), 1x43inch (150w) and 1x75inch (300), gaming laptop (around 200w from power brick) and workstation laptop (150w from powerbrick), 1500w microwave, Bosch Fridge (around 250w), inside and outside lights. I plan on getting a security system installed with cameras and electric fencing at a much later stage (a year or two later). I plan on converting the geyser to a solar one as well. We also have about 4 mobile phones a tablet as well. Obviously everything isnt used at once. Would a 5kw inverter system with two 200ah lithium batteries be sufficient or should i opt for the 8kw with the same batteries? 

Also i take it that gel batteries should be avoided? I know lithium is the best and has a much higher cycle limit vs gel, but just getting some additional opinions as well. 

Regarding brands, im still researching these so dont have ones in mind. I have been looking at the SolarAdvice website though at brands and options. 

Thanks in advance for the feedback and again sorry for the long winded message. 

 

PS: I also noticed pricing differs quite a bit across inverters and batteries as well. I wanted to buy part for part but npt sure what else ia needed apart from Inverter and Batteries. 

Faeez. 

What is your budget? 

A 5kw could work but then you'd have to manage what's running at the sametime. Safest bet would be to get an 8kw if you can afford it. 

Difference in inverter price is down to functionality provided, some inverters can feed excess power to non-essential circuits while others cannot as an example. So your specific usage requirements will guide this

2 hours ago, mzezman said:

What is your budget? 

A 5kw could work but then you'd have to manage what's running at the sametime. Safest bet would be to get an 8kw if you can afford it. 

Difference in inverter price is down to functionality provided, some inverters can feed excess power to non-essential circuits while others cannot as an example. So your specific usage requirements will guide this

My budget is between R50k - R90k max. Obviously if I can save a tiny bit, that would be great. Its just me, the wife and my 3 year old son. So its not too major. The fridge id like to keep running 24/7 of course. The oven, microwave, toaster and airfryer is never used or the need for it was there, but of course with loadshedding, its not possible. We spoke about it and we wouldn't run those power hungry appliances at the sometime. What would run quite often is my gaming laptop mainly for Plex, TV (others will be off), lights indoors and outdoors and eventually security cameras around the house about 3 months after I get the Inverter system installed. The geyser in the house ill be moving into is electric, but I want to convert that to a solar geyser to try and save there. You can check out the two screenshots I added here between two systems I was looking at. This excludes their R12k installation cost. One is definitely over my budget even before the installation costs. Im thinking maybe go with the first one and add another battery later down the line or something.

That's about it really.

Edited January 13, 20232 yr by Zyphur
Added additional information.

This is a decent type of inverter, also sold under other brand names like Sunsynk and Deye, but leave that aside, and you would be on your way to building up similar kit to mzezman if you see his footer in the thread above.

This is a very good  setup for a small to medium household if you can do a little bit of load management, and it should give you a high degree of independence from Eskom. You could even just buy enough panels to produce electricity for your existing geyser, instead of installing a new solar geyser.

Only problem, with these 0.5C batteries (covered elsewhere, search the forum or google), if you only buy one, you will limit the available power to around 2.5kW per battery, and that could cramp you a bit. Fridge, lights and electronics should be fine, but heavier appliances could cause you to trip more frequently. You need to weigh up if you can live with that until you can add the second battery and later some panels, or if you want to look at a cheaper brand/model/type of 5kw inverter, or otherwise a different type of 1C battery.

Agree 100% with what @GreenFieldsis saying.

Nice website, definitely find it strange that the supplier would pair the 5kw Inverter with a battery that can only push out 2.5kw of power and an 8kw with a battery that can only put out 5kw of power and not mention the fact. Battery specs say Max recommended 50A (50A x 48v = 2.4kw) - absolute max 75A. So you would need 2 batteries for the 5kw and 4 batteries for the 8kw to be able to supply their rated power when running on batteries.

https://fusionsolar.co.za/solar-power-kit/ 

 

 

4 hours ago, GreenFields said:

This is a decent type of inverter, also sold under other brand names like Sunsynk and Deye, but leave that aside, and you would be on your way to building up similar kit to mzezman if you see his footer in the thread above.

This is a very good  setup for a small to medium household if you can do a little bit of load management, and it should give you a high degree of independence from Eskom. You could even just buy enough panels to produce electricity for your existing geyser, instead of installing a new solar geyser.

Only problem, with these 0.5C batteries (covered elsewhere, search the forum or google), if you only buy one, you will limit the available power to around 2.5kW per battery, and that could cramp you a bit. Fridge, lights and electronics should be fine, but heavier appliances could cause you to trip more frequently. You need to weigh up if you can live with that until you can add the second battery and later some panels, or if you want to look at a cheaper brand/model/type of 5kw inverter, or otherwise a different type of 1C battery.

Thanks for responding. True about the geyser response. Silly me. Lol I read the 0.5c as a positive based off the description, but if it only provides half its stated power then it's about it. Id opt to get sufficient batteries until I can add panels for sure. My worry about going cheaper is that it might not last as long or quality isn't up to scratch. The site have different battery options with their builder so maybe i should at one of the others. 

3 hours ago, Sc00bs said:

Agree 100% with what @GreenFieldsis saying.

Nice website, definitely find it strange that the supplier would pair the 5kw Inverter with a battery that can only push out 2.5kw of power and an 8kw with a battery that can only put out 5kw of power and not mention the fact. Battery specs say Max recommended 50A (50A x 48v = 2.4kw) - absolute max 75A. So you would need 2 batteries for the 5kw and 4 batteries for the 8kw to be able to supply their rated power when running on batteries.

https://fusionsolar.co.za/solar-power-kit/ 

 

 

The interesting part of the website is that it uses the same website template that the Fusion site uses. Some extra features to the site has been added, but overall its basically the same. solar.co.za they do have more options ofcourse and they have two builders. One for adding solar panels and one purelt battery backup based. The builders are limited in parts though. Probably to not overwhelm. Their youtube channel is also really decent. 

Gees for that power, it seems too expensive then? I mean the batteries rated at 5.12kw but its actual output is 2.4w.

In the end I dont mind a bit of power management until i can expand later down the line. What other site would you recommend i look at for hybrid systems? There are so many so want to avoid any scammy sites. 

4 hours ago, Zyphur said:

I read the 0.5c as a positive based off the description, but if it only provides half its stated power then it's about it.

It's not correct to say it provides half its stated power. More correctly, you are not distinguishing correctly between kWh and kW.

4 hours ago, Zyphur said:

Gees for that power, it seems too expensive then? I mean the batteries rated at 5.12kw but its actual output is 2.4w.

The advert is not lying. I do think they are providing too little information for the average customer to make good choices, but that's a different issue.

 

The storage capacity as advertised is measured in kWh - kilowatt-hours - note the "h." In other words it stores 5 "units" of power like in the "units" you could typically buy pre-paid.

That is different to the output power measured in kW - kiloWatt - note there's no "h" - which is the "strength" that your appliances are rated at.

 

Mostly the 0.5C batteries cost less than the 1C batteries even though they can store the same amount of kWh - units - onboard, but that's exactly because one battery can deliver less output power in kW.

Not saying it's right or wrong, you must just decide what's right for you, and it's better you understand the difference upfront, than to shell out R75K and be disappointed afterwards.

Edited January 14, 20232 yr by GreenFields

26 minutes ago, Zyphur said:

In the end I dont mind a bit of power management until i can expand later down the line. What other site would you recommend i look at for hybrid systems? There are so many so want to avoid any scammy sites. 

https://powerforum-store.co.za/?gclid=CjwKCAiAwomeBhBWEiwAM43YIL5CNSmvbTaC9mOBtlVCmaEYVsQa39GpeVn3uBWsDqJcEQXOIoPDbRoC3j8QAvD_BwE

My understanding is that the Fusion Inverters come out of the DEYE factory, like the Sunsynk's.  

I would suggest getting a Sunsynk 5kw with a Sunsynk 5kw battery, the Sunsynk battery is a 1C battery which means that it can discharge 5kw of power. It also increases the warranty of the Inverter to 10 years when you have it connected to a Sunsynk battery.  There are loads of Sunsynk's around so lots of installers doing the job, you can also get pricing from the Powerforum store and they can arrange an installer if you want. 

DEYE is also an option, slightly cheaper than the Sunsynks  but I don't think the support it quite as good (could be wrong).Most important thing is that you get an installer who does things the correct way and according to code. Loads of cowboys around at the moment cutting way too many corners. 

10 hours ago, GreenFields said:

It's not correct to say it provides half its stated power. More correctly, you are not distinguishing correctly between kWh and kW.

The advert is not lying. I do think they are providing too little information for the average customer to make good choices, but that's a different issue.

 

The storage capacity as advertised is measured in kWh - kilowatt-hours - note the "h." In other words it stores 5 "units" of power like in the "units" you could typically buy pre-paid.

That is different to the output power measured in kW - kiloWatt - note there's no "h" - which is the "strength" that your appliances are rated at.

 

Mostly the 0.5C batteries cost less than the 1C batteries even though they can store the same amount of kWh - units - onboard, but that's exactly because one battery can deliver less output power in kW.

Not saying it's right or wrong, you must just decide what's right for you, and it's better you understand the difference upfront, than to shell out R75K and be disappointed afterwards.

Ah ok. I undersrand this better now. I tend to forget the difference between kw and kwh. 

Thanks for the clarity on that!

10 hours ago, GreenFields said:

https://powerforum-store.co.za/?gclid=CjwKCAiAwomeBhBWEiwAM43YIL5CNSmvbTaC9mOBtlVCmaEYVsQa39GpeVn3uBWsDqJcEQXOIoPDbRoC3j8QAvD_BwE

This is great. Thanks for this. 

6 hours ago, Sc00bs said:

My understanding is that the Fusion Inverters come out of the DEYE factory, like the Sunsynk's.  

I would suggest getting a Sunsynk 5kw with a Sunsynk 5kw battery, the Sunsynk battery is a 1C battery which means that it can discharge 5kw of power. It also increases the warranty of the Inverter to 10 years when you have it connected to a Sunsynk battery.  There are loads of Sunsynk's around so lots of installers doing the job, you can also get pricing from the Powerforum store and they can arrange an installer if you want. 

DEYE is also an option, slightly cheaper than the Sunsynks  but I don't think the support it quite as good (could be wrong).Most important thing is that you get an installer who does things the correct way and according to code. Loads of cowboys around at the moment cutting way too many corners. 

Thanks for this information. Really appreciate it. I agree. A lot of cowboys out there. My parents and eldest brother didnt do their homework and went with a friend of a friend who installs inverters and they were recommended a 2kw inverter and freaking 2 lead acid batteries. I dont know the exact capacity of the batteries but they can only keep their plasma tv (i know... very old and high wattage) and another tv on for like 2 hours. Anything else like lights then it runs out capacity under an hour and a half. They paid around R28k for it unfortunately. I initially told then they need to do research first and avoid these types of people. 

Anyway im going to look into your suggestion. Im in Cape Town so im sure their are reputable installers. Greenfields shared a link with me so ill definitely check it out. Especially with an installer. 

Thanks again! 

15 hours ago, GreenFields said:

https://powerforum-store.co.za/?gclid=CjwKCAiAwomeBhBWEiwAM43YIL5CNSmvbTaC9mOBtlVCmaEYVsQa39GpeVn3uBWsDqJcEQXOIoPDbRoC3j8QAvD_BwE

+1 for Powerforumstore

FYI, the Shoto is a 1C battery. This is from the manual:

1 hour ago, jumper said:

FYI, the Shoto is a 1C battery. This is from the manual:

100% correct. However, OEM recommends 0.5C. 

18 hours ago, Zyphur said:

Thanks for this information. Really appreciate it. I agree. A lot of cowboys out there. My parents and eldest brother didnt do their homework and went with a friend of a friend who installs inverters and they were recommended a 2kw inverter and freaking 2 lead acid batteries. I dont know the exact capacity of the batteries but they can only keep their plasma tv (i know... very old and high wattage) and another tv on for like 2 hours. Anything else like lights then it runs out capacity under an hour and a half. They paid around R28k for it unfortunately. I initially told then they need to do research first and avoid these types of people. 

Anyway im going to look into your suggestion. Im in Cape Town so im sure their are reputable installers. Greenfields shared a link with me so ill definitely check it out. Especially with an installer. 

Thanks again! 

Pretty sure that the Powerforum store will have an installer in Cape Town who can assist you.

12 hours ago, Antonio de Sa said:

100% correct. However, OEM recommends 0.5C. 

Why do OEM recommend 0.5C though? Quite curious about that.

10 hours ago, Zyphur said:

Why do OEM recommend 0.5C though? Quite curious about that.

Longevity and warranty. Batteries that are charged and discharged slowly hold their capacity for far more cycles than those that are charged and discharged quicker.