Posted January 14, 20232 yr I wish to install a Lithium battery on my Axpert 3kVA - 24V inverter system. Firstly, can this inverter be configured to charge lithium properly/safely ? Secondly, any recommendations for this Lithium battery - size, make, supplier in SA etc ? The system has been operating very successfully with two 12volt flooded lead acid batteries (100Ah) in series for about 10 years, with battery replacement every 3 years or so. However, with the current load shedding schedules, I'm deep cycling up to three times a day ! The batteries are not going to last long at this rate. May as well look for something more robust !
January 15, 20232 yr You could use Pylontech UP2500 batteries. Make sure you disable equalize on the inverter and set bulk and float (program 26 and 27) to the same value, can be up to 28.5V according to the Pylontech book, and low dc cutoff (program 29) to something like 23.4. Be aware that Lithium perform very differently from lead acid in that the voltage drops very suddenly when they are discharged so any automatic charge trigger you may have will need modifying. Personally I have designed a system that monitors the SOC of the batteries via the BMS and uses this to trigger a charge.
January 15, 20232 yr Hey Pat, I have a similar inverter a Mecer Axpert Type 3000VA (3000W) PURE Sine Wave Inverter (1200W PWM Solar Controller) and am here to learn! I've contacted Geewiz support (where I bought mine) and they recommended the below, They also provided some settings changes if I should make the upgrade; 2 x https://www.geewiz.co.za/lithium-ion-batteries/184556-securi-prod-100ah-128v-12v-lithium-ion-lifepo4-battery-first-life-1280kwh.html 1 x https://www.geewiz.co.za/hubble-battery-balancer/185924-lithium-24v-battery-balancer-equaliser-suitable-for-all-battery-types-24v.html With the increase in loadshedding I think this is the right move to make, I'm also looking into more options for batteries! Please anyone make suggestions I'm not at sure of what Im talking about.
January 15, 20232 yr Good day all members i am new to this forum. I am a installation electrician my company Towfac Electrical cc and i am stationed on the east rand. Just a few pointers to Face's post. Geewiz has quoted you on drop in lifep04 batteries hence the battery balancer for the 2 batteries. I have installed 12v drop in replacements before CFE 1280wh that is connected in series without a battery balancer. What should happen when connecting lifep04 in series you should top balance both batteries to 100% soc(state of charge) before connecting them in series. You must have a accurate coulomb meter as relying on battery voltage is not a accurate reflection of soc on lifep04. Remember with 2 lifep04 batteries in series you have 2 4s bms' that can't communicate. If not using a battery balancer on series connected lifep04 you will have to top balance each battery every 6 months. Make sure to follow setup procedure as stated by Acuario. I am not sure if Sucerity prod batteries is 1C while you spending the money get Pylon UP2500 2.84kWh Li-Ion then you dont have the extra cost of the battery balancer. The Pylon goes for around R 19k
January 15, 20232 yr @TaliaBso what I am understanding is, I will need to get a electrician to install the batteries, if I go with the 2x LIFEP04 batteries with the balancer, as an coulomb meter is required, else I will need to charge the batts separately to an 100%, before connecting to the inverter unit in series, and do this every 6 months. Thanks for trying to explain, I'm still super noob.
January 16, 20232 yr 10 hours ago, Face said: @TaliaBso what I am understanding is, I will need to get a electrician to install the batteries, if I go with the 2x LIFEP04 batteries with the balancer, as an coulomb meter is required, else I will need to charge the batts separately to an 100%, before connecting to the inverter unit in series, and do this every 6 months. Thanks for trying to explain, I'm still super noob. I have been running over a year with Hubble S-100 and a few months with Mecer 200Ah on my 3kVA Axpert. If the voltages are set before the drop off like 25V then no need for a coulomb counter. This is only if you really need to know if you still have 5% SOC left. I cut my inverter at 24V which might happen very rarely. Once each battery is fully charge parallel the 2 for 12hrs before connecting to the inverter to balance between the 2. Edited January 16, 20232 yr by Scorp007
January 16, 20232 yr The Axpert 3000VA/3000W inverters no problem with lithium batteries. Remember that a single Pylontech UP2500 (24V) battery can supply max of 56A continuous which (@ V = 25V) equates to 1.4kW. This is way less than the inverter's 3000W rating. Nice thing with the latest UP2500 is that it has CANbus and thus the Kodak 24V 3000VA/3000W inverter we installed with the UP2500 works 100%. You need to set battery setting to PYL.
January 16, 20232 yr 23 hours ago, TaliaB said: Good day all members i am new to this forum. I am a installation electrician my company Towfac Electrical cc and i am stationed on the east rand. Just a few pointers to Face's post. Geewiz has quoted you on drop in lifep04 batteries hence the battery balancer for the 2 batteries. I have installed 12v drop in replacements before CFE 1280wh that is connected in series without a battery balancer. What should happen when connecting lifep04 in series you should top balance both batteries to 100% soc(state of charge) before connecting them in series. You must have a accurate coulomb meter as relying on battery voltage is not a accurate reflection of soc on lifep04. Remember with 2 lifep04 batteries in series you have 2 4s bms' that can't communicate. If not using a battery balancer on series connected lifep04 you will have to top balance each battery every 6 months. Make sure to follow setup procedure as stated by Acuario. I am not sure if Sucerity prod batteries is 1C while you spending the money get Pylon UP2500 2.84kWh Li-Ion then you dont have the extra cost of the battery balancer. The Pylon goes for around R 19k Use a Victron battery balancer for peace of mind. They are cheap as chips and will keep the batteries balanced and warn you if they are out of whack.
January 16, 20232 yr Thanks @GreenMan@Scorp007 @TaliaB @Acuario I kinda hijacked @Pat de Klerk post, which I'm sorry for, I'm getting the idea that getting the lithium is a good route to go and will be ok to us with the system I currently have, still a little bit confused about @Acuario comment "Personally I have designed a system that monitors the SOC of the batteries via the BMS and uses this to trigger a charge." Is this what the battery balancer is responsible for ? Kind Regards!!! (System I have https://www.geewiz.co.za/long-run-ups-inverter-battery/93614-3000va-mecer-axpert-pure-sine-inverter-2x-100ah-battery-trolley-8-hour-battery-life-kit-3000w-150-200-cycles.html) Edited January 16, 20232 yr by Face forgot to add a link
January 17, 20232 yr 9 hours ago, Face said: "Personally I have designed a system that monitors the SOC of the batteries via the BMS and uses this to trigger a charge." Is this what the battery balancer is responsible for ? Kind Regards!!! (System I have https://www.geewiz.co.za/long-run-ups-inverter-battery/93614-3000va-mecer-axpert-pure-sine-inverter-2x-100ah-battery-trolley-8-hour-battery-life-kit-3000w-150-200-cycles.html) No it's not. I've not used a battery balancer but from what I read it is more suited to lead acid technology. A lithium battery should have some form of battery management system (BMS) to manage the individual cells inside the battery. The commercial batteries (Pylontech etc.) allow you (or the inverter) to communicate with the BMS and read battery status - voltage, current charge/discharge, state of charge, alarms, temperature and other parameters. Due to the different technologies of lead acid v lithium the discharge curve is very different (as shown in the graph above). In systems with lead acid the recommended maximum discharge is between 40% and 50% of the batteries capacity. As the capacity reduces so does the voltage. This can be used to trigger a recharge of the batteries (typically using a generator in an off-grid installation). In the case of lead acid, if a large load is connected while the batteries are approaching the 40-50% discharge the batteries will have capacity to continue supporting the load (and a recharge will probably get triggered). In the case of lithium this doesn't happen. The battery voltage stays high throughout the discharge of the battery (see graph) , only dropping very close to fully discharged. If you use the voltage to trigger a recharge as with lead acid, and a load is connected then the battery will have insufficient capacity to run the load so will shut down. Also, typically, lithium batteries can be discharged to around 90% (Pylontech US3000C and US2000C state 95%) so connecting a load at this level of discharge will most likely shut down the battery. So what is the solution? Obviously not the traditional voltage trigger but as the battery can be interrogated to find out it's SOC it is easy to use this to trigger the recharge. This is what the system I have designed does. It sets upper and lower thresholds for SOC and when they are reached it starts or stops a recharge. In my case this is from the grid but as it is just a relay operating this can be used to auto start a generator. In my system I also have what I call 'Solar Stop'. I have a system with solar panels. Typically a charge will start overnight or early morning. The 'Solar Stop' monitors the power consumption of the load (the power out of the inverter) and the amount of solar generation (power in to the batteries). When the power in exceeds the power out it stops the recharge from the external source so the 'free' energy is used rather than the 'bought' energy. From what I see, the system you have is an Axpert inverter. This has a communication connection you can use to monitor the performance of the inverter but I don't think it can communicate with lithium batteries (the King and MAX (at least the one that doesn't have a bug!!) have a BMS connection). The system I have designed caters for this as it has 2 inputs that can be used to connect to the Axpert inverter and Pylontech batteries and communicates with both to control recharging.
January 17, 20232 yr @Acuario Thanks for your explanation it seems like you have this down by a science heheheh I can see my inverter stats on watchpower so the COMM port works, but that stops with communication with the inverter like you said. are there programs like these available commercially ?
January 20, 20232 yr Good day all i need help I have a 7.2kw Axpert inverter with a5.1kwdyness inverter 48v Why would the inverter every now and again the inverter will give a BP error low battery although the battery is fully charged and if we re set everything it's fine for a few hours then it does it again it's a new installation
January 20, 20232 yr 15 minutes ago, William heiden said: Good day all i need help I have a 7.2kw Axpert inverter with a5.1kwdyness inverter 48v Why would the inverter every now and again the inverter will give a BP error low battery although the battery is fully charged and if we re set everything it's fine for a few hours then it does it again it's a new installation @William heiden hi, its because your inverter is rated at higher power than your battery can give. 7200/50 = 144 amps, if your battery is of 1C type it can handle a surge of no more than 100amps,if its. 5C it can handle no more than 60 amps. Therefore its always a rule of thumb to at least match your inverter and battery 1:1. This happens when grid is not available, which means all the demand comes from the battery. All is not lost, but you will have to babysit your load during loadshedding and make sure you dont load it above 5kw. Your MAX has a maximum battery discharge current setting in its options, but it will still give an error when there is a surge thats too high.
January 24, 20232 yr Hi! Is it possible to connect Kepworth 12v 100ah lifepo4 lithium batteries and correctly configure the Axpert vm iv 3.6K -24v inverter to work with them? The battery does not have any interfaces to communicate with the inverter. I tried to put in program 5 (battery type) Other manufacturers - the inverter reports that the battery type is incorrect (warning 62). If I select User-Defined in program 5 (I set parameters in programs 25, 26, 29), then the inverter does not see the battery at all - there is nothing on the display where information about the battery is displayed. The only inverter began to work with the battery, if I specify the type of battery AGM in program 5. but in this case, I can't set the minimum value for the voltage of a discharged battery and the maximum value for the voltage of a fully charged battery. Advise please what I should to do. Thank You. Leonid.
January 24, 20232 yr 4 hours ago, Leonid49 said: Hi! Is it possible to connect Kepworth 12v 100ah lifepo4 lithium batteries and correctly configure the Axpert vm iv 3.6K -24v inverter to work with them? The battery does not have any interfaces to communicate with the inverter. I tried to put in program 5 (battery type) Other manufacturers - the inverter reports that the battery type is incorrect (warning 62). If I select User-Defined in program 5 (I set parameters in programs 25, 26, 29), then the inverter does not see the battery at all - there is nothing on the display where information about the battery is displayed. The only inverter began to work with the battery, if I specify the type of battery AGM in program 5. but in this case, I can't set the minimum value for the voltage of a discharged battery and the maximum value for the voltage of a fully charged battery. Advise please what I should to do. Thank You. Leonid. No harm in using the AGM setting. It only means the default values are used for AGM that's why you don't see them. Also the battery will operate in a good sweet spot but not charge to 100% or discharge as low as you might want it to go before shutting down Let's see if users can indicate why the USR setting does not work.
February 3, 20232 yr Hey Guys, So I took the plunge and replaced my old Lead Acid Calcium with a 3,7kw Lithium battery. Running through an Ellies FBIC3000VA/24V with a user defined battery setting with the following: - Boost Charging Voltage: 28.8 Volts - Boost Charging Reconnect: 26.4 Volts - Float Charge: 28 Volt (Can't seem to get it higher then that) - Low Voltage Disconnect: 22.4 Volts The battery calls for the following: - Equalised Voltage: 28.8 Volts - Float Voltage: 28 Volts - Cutoff Voltage: 22.4 Volts The inverter seems to just be sitting in the FLOAT charge state which I understand isn't a great place for the battery. What should be changed to correct this? Thanks.
February 3, 20232 yr On 2023/01/14 at 6:41 PM, Pat de Klerk said: I wish to install a Lithium battery on my Axpert 3kVA - 24V inverter system. Firstly, can this inverter be configured to charge lithium properly/safely ? Secondly, any recommendations for this Lithium battery - size, make, supplier in SA etc ? The system has been operating very successfully with two 12volt flooded lead acid batteries (100Ah) in series for about 10 years, with battery replacement every 3 years or so. However, with the current load shedding schedules, I'm deep cycling up to three times a day ! The batteries are not going to last long at this rate. May as well look for something more robust ! Yes, it's possible to use a Lithium battery with your Axpert 3kVA 24V inverter system, provided that the inverter is capable of charging Lithium batteries safely. You may want to check the manual or contact the manufacturer to confirm this. As for recommendations for the Lithium battery, you may want to consider using a Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) battery, as these are known for their safety, durability, and long cycle life. The size of the battery you'll need would depend on your specific power requirements and usage pattern, so it's best to consult a specialist for a more accurate recommendation. In South Africa, there are several suppliers of Lithium batteries, including Battery and Solar Solutions, AGM Batteries, and Energon. You may also want to check online for reviews and compare prices to find the best option for your needs.
February 3, 20232 yr 16 hours ago, TimG said: Hey Guys, So I took the plunge and replaced my old Lead Acid Calcium with a 3,7kw Lithium battery. Running through an Ellies FBIC3000VA/24V with a user defined battery setting with the following: - Boost Charging Voltage: 28.8 Volts - Boost Charging Reconnect: 26.4 Volts - Float Charge: 28 Volt (Can't seem to get it higher then that) - Low Voltage Disconnect: 22.4 Volts The battery calls for the following: - Equalised Voltage: 28.8 Volts - Float Voltage: 28 Volts - Cutoff Voltage: 22.4 Volts The inverter seems to just be sitting in the FLOAT charge state which I understand isn't a great place for the battery. What should be changed to correct this? Thanks. It appears that the charging settings in your Ellies FBIC3000VA/24V inverter are not optimal for your 3.7kw Lithium battery, which could potentially cause damage over time. To correct this, you should consider adjusting the following: Boost Charging Voltage: Consider increasing this value to the recommended Equalized Voltage of 28.8 Volts, to ensure the battery is properly charged. Float Charge: This value should match the recommended Float Voltage of 28 Volts. If you are unable to increase the value to 28 Volts, it may be necessary to contact the manufacturer for assistance or a firmware update. Low Voltage Disconnect: This value should match the recommended Cutoff Voltage of 22.4 Volts. It's important to note that these values are specific to your particular Lithium battery and may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. It's best to consult the battery specifications or a specialist to ensure that you are using the correct values. By properly setting the charging parameters, you can optimize the performance of your Lithium battery and prolong its lifespan.
February 5, 20232 yr On 2023/01/20 at 6:29 PM, William heiden said: Good day all i need help I have a 7.2kw Axpert inverter with a5.1kwdyness inverter 48v Why would the inverter every now and again the inverter will give a BP error low battery although the battery is fully charged and if we re set everything it's fine for a few hours then it does it again it's a new installation keep in mind that most batteries will have a bms to suply max load simmilar to its AH rating ie a 5kw battery is made up with 100ah cells meaning the battery is most likely designed to supply 5kw power ie a 100A bms unless you have two batteries parralel then they should be bale to meet the inverters 150A at max load by each supplying 75a which should not trip the bms overload function another thing to keep in mind although the inverter is 7.2kw most of these inverters are designed to handle spikes close to double their rated output for very short stints ie seconds ,start up load so your inverter could under extreme scenarios pull 300a momentarily , that could trip overload funtion on even 2 batteries in parralel all depends on the bms ie a bms that has a trip function of 200A for spikes and current limiting for constant current at 100a would not trip but limit current to 100a ie 5kw Edited February 5, 20232 yr by Leondavibe adding more info, spelling corrction
February 5, 20232 yr And tell me what battery setting is best, i have had the system on PYL but then the Barry on the display flashes I have tried USE ,then the battery light stays on ,but now it doesn't seem to be charging
February 5, 20232 yr On 2023/02/03 at 7:34 AM, TimG said: Hey Guys, So I took the plunge and replaced my old Lead Acid Calcium with a 3,7kw Lithium battery. Running through an Ellies FBIC3000VA/24V with a user defined battery setting with the following: - Boost Charging Voltage: 28.8 Volts - Boost Charging Reconnect: 26.4 Volts - Float Charge: 28 Volt (Can't seem to get it higher then that) - Low Voltage Disconnect: 22.4 Volts The battery calls for the following: - Equalised Voltage: 28.8 Volts - Float Voltage: 28 Volts - Cutoff Voltage: 22.4 Volts The inverter seems to just be sitting in the FLOAT charge state which I understand isn't a great place for the battery. What should be changed to correct this? Thanks. the constantly in float is a big deal with lead acid if the voltage is too high, with the lithium not so much they dont take on more charge the current drops to nothing although the voltage is high Edited February 5, 20232 yr by Leondavibe
February 5, 20232 yr On 2023/01/15 at 2:01 PM, TaliaB said: Good day all members i am new to this forum. I am a installation electrician my company Towfac Electrical cc and i am stationed on the east rand. Just a few pointers to Face's post. Geewiz has quoted you on drop in lifep04 batteries hence the battery balancer for the 2 batteries. I have installed 12v drop in replacements before CFE 1280wh that is connected in series without a battery balancer. What should happen when connecting lifep04 in series you should top balance both batteries to 100% soc(state of charge) before connecting them in series. You must have a accurate coulomb meter as relying on battery voltage is not a accurate reflection of soc on lifep04. Remember with 2 lifep04 batteries in series you have 2 4s bms' that can't communicate. If not using a battery balancer on series connected lifep04 you will have to top balance each battery every 6 months. Make sure to follow setup procedure as stated by Acuario. I am not sure if Sucerity prod batteries is 1C while you spending the money get Pylon UP2500 2.84kWh Li-Ion then you dont have the extra cost of the battery balancer. The Pylon goes for around R 19k As an installer I am sure you have done the calculation that your peak load on the Pylontech 0.5C battery on a 24V inverter is only about 1.2kW?
February 5, 20232 yr 59 minutes ago, Scorp007 said: As an installer I am sure you have done the calculation that your peak load on the Pylontech 0.5C battery on a 24V inverter is only about 1.2kW? If you read the original post from Pat de Klerk he was using 2 x 100ah lead acid so obviously he is running a very conservative load hence the reason i suggested Pylontech up2000 instead of 2 x 12v drop in lipo with 2 diffrent bms"s that can't communicate with each other or the inverter.
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