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East/west panel installation


Nature

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We had a system installed but the production is very frustrating. 

Can the east and west panels be installed on the same MTTP? 

I am now trying to get proper info so that this can be rectified.

Growatt ES5000

Hubble 5.5kWh 

8 X 550W candian solar panels. (4 east and 4 west) 

Please assist 

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Have a read https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/an-eastwest-spit-of-solar-panels-on-a-single-string-can-work-well/

 

The conclusion is basically that, yes it can be done effectively in very specific scenarios. 

 

Quote

but the production is very frustrating 

What do you mean by that? Like, do you get way less power than the total that is facing the sun directly?

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East & west allows for flatter mid day peaks but makes for early & late use of energy. The North facing panels will start late but peak higher by midday & stop production earlier. 

You can parallel east & west but the rule is to parallel the exact same.number of them as in your case 4 by 4. 

There is a lot more than can influence PV solar production. Tilt angle & actual panel manufacturers also have different standards of production. Of late I have also seen a lot of fake Canadian Solar panels floating around. Not saying yours are fake just saying there is a possibility that any one of these are affecting your production. 

You need to be more clear on what is so frustrating on your solar yield??? Lots of things can be frustrating but in context it might be actually normal. I can tell you now that East/ West will not produce the 550W x 8 peak wattage by midday. North facing & ideal tilt will get close. 

Too many variables to consider. 

Edited by Steve87
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12 minutes ago, Steve87 said:

East & west allows for flatter mid day peaks but makes for early & late use of energy. The North facing panels will start late but peak higher by midday & stop production earlier. 

You can parallel east & west but the rule is to parallel the exact same.number of them as in your case 4 by 4. 

There is a lot more than can influence PV solar production. Tilt angle & actual panel manufacturers also have different standards of production. Of late I have also seen a lot of fake Canadian Solar panels floating around. Not saying yours are fake just saying there is a possibility that any one of these are affecting your production. 

You need to be more clear on what is so frustrating on your solar yield??? Lots of things can be frustrating but in context it might be actually normal. I can tell you now that East/ West will not produce the 550W x 8 peak wattage by midday. North facing & ideal tilt will get close. 

Too many variables to consider. 

Midday production is about 2600W. It is less than 60% on an ideal day. 

At 9:30 it is about 650W (from the 2200W potential generation) on a great day. 

At 15:00 it is about 500W (2200W potential generation from west) on a great day.

 

I will do more more when I am at home during the day. Today is cloudy so it will not help. 

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1 hour ago, MeepMoop said:

Have a read https://www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/an-eastwest-spit-of-solar-panels-on-a-single-string-can-work-well/

 

The conclusion is basically that, yes it can be done effectively in very specific scenarios. 

 

What do you mean by that? Like, do you get way less power than the total that is facing the sun directly?

Midday production is about 2600W. It is less than 60% on an ideal day. 

At 9:30 it is about 650W (from the 2200W potential generation) on a great day. 

At 15:00 it is about 500W (2200W potential generation from west) on a great day.

 

I will do more more when I am at home during the day. Today is cloudy so it will not help. 

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Ok now we getting closer to what the problem is. Here is more questions for you. At 09:30am what is the load attached to this machine & are you charging your battery at this time of day? If so what is the charger amps value set to? 

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10 minutes ago, Steve87 said:

Ok now we getting closer to what the problem is. Here is more questions for you. At 09:30am what is the load attached to this machine & are you charging your battery at this time of day? If so what is the charger amps value set to? 

The dishwasher was running and the battery was charging. The charger amps is 100A. 

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Also did you take a pic of the Back sticker of the solar panel ? This is quite an important part of verification that these are in fact original Canadian Solar panels. My Broadband other forum has an extensive thread where they pointed out the fake panel. I always take a snap of it & I send it to my clients. However, I am sourcing my panels from trusted sources so it's less of a concern for me. 

If you did not try to remove a panel or get your phone camera behind one of them a take a pic of the back sticker. Please switch off the Array before you do any of this for your own safety. 

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25 minutes ago, Steve87 said:

@Natureyou need to provide context. We want to help but a snapshot from your mobile that says Energy & has rows of data without labels leaves a lot to the imagination. Please take your screen shot higher so we can see the labels. 

I updated it with more screen shots to show the requires info.

Thank you for the assistance.

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29 minutes ago, Steve87 said:

Also did you take a pic of the Back sticker of the solar panel ? This is quite an important part of verification that these are in fact original Canadian Solar panels. My Broadband other forum has an extensive thread where they pointed out the fake panel. I always take a snap of it & I send it to my clients. However, I am sourcing my panels from trusted sources so it's less of a concern for me. 

If you did not try to remove a panel or get your phone camera behind one of them a take a pic of the back sticker. Please switch off the Array before you do any of this for your own safety. 

Unfortunately I did not take a pic. I will definitely do it. 

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3 hours ago, Nature said:

Midday production is about 2600W. It is less than 60% on an ideal day. 

At 9:30 it is about 650W (from the 2200W potential generation) on a great day. 

At 15:00 it is about 500W (2200W potential generation from west) on a great day.

My 2c. May be wrong. How are you determining your expected/potential generation? What are you basing your expectations on? Are you factoring in the time of year? This 2600W at midday is ballpark what you can expect for East and/or West-facing panels for this time of the year. Even if your panel rating is is 4400W, your environmental/climatic/installation conditions right now mean you will not come that close to 4400W. Where are you located? Gauteng should get better power, around a bit over 3000W, Cape Town less, maybe around 2200W at mid-day. It depends on other variables too, but the point remains, generating around 60-75% of rated power should be par for the course at midday today in this scenario.

But the generation at 09:00 and 15:00, you should be able to get a combined 1.0kW approx from an East and West-facing set, let's say 350W from the shaded side and 650W from the sunny side if they are wired independently. But you're seeing just 500-650W in total, and that's probably due to the shaded side reducing output on the sunny side and affecting. Basically the Voltage and Current are mismatched on East vs West panels, so in parallel as well as in series, the result should be sub-optimal to a degree.

In an ideal world you would be able to put the second string onto a different MPPT, or else choose one side of the roof to place all strings on, or simply accept that you will generate less the further you are from midday. And in general moderate your expectations for Autumn & Winter times when the sun sits low in the sky to the North while your panels face away from the sun.

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8 hours ago, GreenFields said:

My 2c. May be wrong. How are you determining your expected/potential generation? What are you basing your expectations on? Are you factoring in the time of year? This 2600W at midday is ballpark what you can expect for East and/or West-facing panels for this time of the year. Even if your panel rating is is 4400W, your environmental/climatic/installation conditions right now mean you will not come that close to 4400W. Where are you located? Gauteng should get better power, around a bit over 3000W, Cape Town less, maybe around 2200W at mid-day. It depends on other variables too, but the point remains, generating around 60-75% of rated power should be par for the course at midday today in this scenario.

But the generation at 09:00 and 15:00, you should be able to get a combined 1.0kW approx from an East and West-facing set, let's say 350W from the shaded side and 650W from the sunny side if they are wired independently. But you're seeing just 500-650W in total, and that's probably due to the shaded side reducing output on the sunny side and affecting. Basically the Voltage and Current are mismatched on East vs West panels, so in parallel as well as in series, the result should be sub-optimal to a degree.

In an ideal world you would be able to put the second string onto a different MPPT, or else choose one side of the roof to place all strings on, or simply accept that you will generate less the further you are from midday. And in general moderate your expectations for Autumn & Winter times when the sun sits low in the sky to the North while your panels face away from the sun.

Thank you very much for your very detailed explanation.

I was expecting around 70%. I did not know it would below 60%. A 2 X MTTP inverter was supposed to be installed but a 1 X MTTP inverter was installed instead. This might be my "underlying disappointment". This would have given me better production. 

It is what it is. I will just add an additional panel per side and it should give me what I expected from the current installation. 

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Similar situation. Being in Cape Town & having 10x 550w panels (west facing). While running a 7000w load - I have only ever seen a max PV yield of 4200w during clear sunny skies yesterday with 21degC temp.

x5 panels, per mppt

Is there some sort of method or website once can use to determine max yield at site coordinates?

 

 

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6 hours ago, Skat13 said:

Similar situation. Being in Cape Town & having 10x 550w panels (west facing). While running a 7000w load - I have only ever seen a max PV yield of 4200w during clear sunny skies yesterday with 21degC temp.

x5 panels, per mppt

Is there some sort of method or website once can use to determine max yield at site coordinates?

 

 

I dont think our installers gave us enough info.

That is atleast 76%. I do not even see 40% for morning or afternoon sun. 2200 per side. I need to investigate this mismatch voltage and current issue.

If you find a site please share it with me. 

All of the best with your situation.

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1 hour ago, Nature said:

I dont think our installers gave us enough info.

That is atleast 76%. I do not even see 40% for morning or afternoon sun. 2200 per side. I need to investigate this mismatch voltage and current issue.

If you find a site please share it with me. 

All of the best with your situation.

Indeed. Awaiting information from installer.

If its any help, try sending some graphs or readings of the system when you have the system under a 5kw load. Ensure that your batteries are all charged up to your requested SOC at such time.

 

 

As for website to get a guestimate of PV yield at your location, I've found this here Solar Atlas

Please assist with updates if you find a solution.

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  • 5 months later...
1 hour ago, craig shaw said:

hi guys

i just finished my east west install and started generating power..

15 east and 17 west panels

getting about 2kw at 7am and 4 kw at 5pm with a peak about 12,4kw at 12/13:00

at 10:40am getting about 10kw

the late west pv production is lower than expected 6pm it dies now..rays are soft at 6pm

9october.

 

Hi @craig shaw how are you keeping the pv producing? Are you feeding back?

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On 2023/10/09 at 7:49 AM, Buyeye said:

Hi @craig shaw how are you keeping the pv producing? Are you feeding back?

interestingly- the west panels really drop off lots after 5pm

any idea why..west sun is hot but pv production lower…is the angle or distance of sun really so much less in west at 5pm..where my east panels start firing at 6:30am and rwally work welll at 8am…

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14 hours ago, craig shaw said:

interestingly- the west panels really drop off lots after 5pm

any idea why..west sun is hot but pv production lower…is the angle or distance of sun really so much less in west at 5pm..where my east panels start firing at 6:30am and rwally work welll at 8am…

Mainly the angle of the sun to the panels. Plus if your battery is full in the evening how are you going to measure the max PV if you are not feeding back? 

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On 2023/10/13 at 8:45 AM, Chris_S said:

Mainly the angle of the sun to the panels. Plus if your battery is full in the evening how are you going to measure the max PV if you are not feeding back? 

bats full - i just turn on 6 aircons to see how much i can generate...maxed out the PV at 14kw at about 1:30 pm and house was pulling 18kw

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